House Republicans regroup amid Medicare anger

[Wry Catcher]

Some detail on Traditional Values is in order, for what is in practice by the right seems incongruent with the original intent of the First Amendment. I see ethical relativism everywhere today, posts on this message board are regularly infused by hypocrisy, denying rights to the ganders while the geese fly free.

I will simply say this.... I believe Americans are TOO Free and have way too little in the way of Responsibility and Duty cast upon them to EARN those Freedoms. Of the two dozen plus Amendments to the US Constitution I agree with probably less than half of them.

Interesting. You said plenty. What nationality are you?

 

[EriktheRed]

“It is paradoxical really that with all this talk of rationing, the proposal we hear about how to fix American health care is to take it away from people. That’s from the very people who are crying rationing,” Don Berwick, the administrator of CMS, said in a wide-ranging interview with POLITICO. “If you look at the proposed withdrawals of support to Medicare beneficiaries and Medicaid, it’s withholding care from the people who need the care. You tell me what that is?”

That pendulum sure swings fast.

"Death vouchers".


Forgot who on here came up with that, but I wish the Dems would run with it.

 

[Anachronism]

Interesting. You said plenty. What nationality are you?

I'm an American, but from a very different age, time and place than the one I was born in. I have more in common with my ancestors who lynched a Tory in Essex, CT after the American Revolution or the ones who went South to fight with the Confederacy during the War of Northern Aggression than I do with today's "Americans". My kind died off for the most part about 1920.

 

[Claudette]

People have been paying into Medicare since 1965. How is that a "free ride?"
Do you even have a clue about how Ryan's voucher plan works and why it would dramatically increases the out-of-pocket costs of the middle class/poor/elderly/disadvantaged? Do you realize that Ryan's plan is simply corporate welfare for the already highly profitable health care insurance companies? Do you realize that Ryan's plan does absolutely nothing to reign in the ever rising cost of health care insurance? Are YOU so wealthy that you don't think that you won't get hurt financially when you become eligible for Medicare?

Its a "free ride" because when their money runs out, they are using someone elses.

Those that put into Medicare should take out just what they put in. No more. No less.

Me. Wealthy?? I wish. I just use my money wisely and don't do irresponsible stupid things and expect others to bail me out.

Kinda funny that the rapid climb in H/C costs started shortly after Medicare came on the scene. One has to wonder what the costs would be if the Govt had kept it big fat nose out of the HC industry.

Guess we'll just wait to see how HC costs come down under Obamacare since it does nothing to address the cost either. Wonder how thats gonna work for those of us who actually pay??

First of all have big doubts that health care insurance rates started climbing when "Medicare came on the scene".

Health care cost will probably NOT go down because of Obamacare.

If you have an employer health care insurance plan, your employer is paying for quite a bit of your insurance premiums. When you retire and America is using Ryan's plan, your income will be fixed yet your insurance rates will be climbing much higher than inflation. Ryan's plan calls for using the CPI overall inflation rate (which measures the average annual inflation) to gauge the increase of government contribution to your voucher plan. BUT health care insurance cost inflation has out paced the CPI by at least four times. So in other words, you'll probably be paying a much higher contribution to your health care insurance than you are now and at the same time you'll be in a fixed income and have much less incoming income and disposable income..

The cost of Medicare has doubled every four years since 1966 according to Wikipedia. If Medicare costs rose then its a pretty safe bet that all HC costs went up.

As for my HC insurance I have one thats a $1500 deductable. Not a great plan but then I have never used my H/C benefits in my entire working life. Sounds unbelievable but very true.

As for the senior paying out of pocket under Ryans plan. What do you think will happen if they don't fix Medicare?? According to Wikipedia they spent more on Medicare in 2008 than it brought in with taxes. Where do you suppose they got the money to pay for the shortfall?? I also Wonder how that applies to 2009, 10 and 11. The medicare hospital insurance trust fund will be insolvent by 2019. Wonder where that will leave everyone??

Until they address the cost of HC Medicare will remain a giant albatross around our necks.

 

[traveler52]

This is where we find out whether the GOP has finally learned to do what's RIGHT or what's POPULAR.

Suffice it to say that their decision on this will probably affect my ability to vote for ANY Republican candidate for the rest of my life.

Was extending Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans "popular" or "right"?

Neither actually. Right?, when the American Middle Class, the back bone of the American Economy continued to suffer while the rich got tax cuts and tax breaks. Popular, only to the richest one percent. The rest suffered.

 

[drsmith1072]

Polls show the proposal is unpopular with many Americans, and Republican lawmakers are hearing an earful from their constituents.

House Republicans regroup after Medicare anger - Politics - Capitol Hill - msnbc.com

Hmmmmm....so extending tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans at the expense of the elderly is NOT a good GOP platform to run on? Whoda thunkit?

Ryan told his constituents that medicare will be broke in 9 years and yet what does his plan do about the costs of medicare in the run up to it going broke?

Paul Ryan takes deficit-reduction plan to voters - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
"Medicare is broke in nine years," he warns every audience. "Let's break up this monopoly."

He says it won't affect those 55 or older so can someone please explain to me how his plan addresses medicare going broke in 9 years??

 

[drsmith1072]

Kill Grandma so that you can give tax cuts to the wealthy

Sound political strategy

No . I'm waiting to see grandma eating cat food and the kids dying in the streets.

Apparantly the seniors in this country don't think they should have to make any cuts or tighten their belts just everyone else. They appear to believe they are a priviliged class.

Oh look, class warfare. Imagine that.

As for taxes for the wealthy. Well I seem to remember reading that those tax cuts generated a whole lot of revenue. Much more than raising taxes would have generated. Am I wrong??

WOW! So you are actaully trying to compare the results, which you believe that you read somewhere, of an actual even increased revenue more than the results of an event that didn't actually occur?? WOW!

I would say that you are wrong for drawing such a baseless conclusion.

 

[drsmith1072]

Meidcare is a program that never, ever should have been instituted in this country. It was and we are now stuck with it. Neither political party will get rid of it or SS. We are STUCK.

I agree with you. I would just as soon have the money I have in that program and SS. I can take care of my money a hell of a lot better than those clowns in DC. I can take care of myself and have been doing so for quite some time. I don't NEED the Govts help at all.

If the Parties won't do it, the we The People need to step up and remove the Parties from the equation.

What does that even mean??? Care to expand on that and explain your intentions??

 

[drsmith1072]

This question got skipped right over.....

Maybe you need to learn to READ a little better, Va..... it was answered in the post directly below the one it was asked in.......

It was definitely Right and in many circles even beyond the wealthy it was also fairly Popular. Either way it was the Right thing to do.

So, you agree that cutting ack tax on the ones most able to afford taxes in the first place, and then in turn cutting back services for those most in need is a good strategery?

Oh, and I apologize. I somehow "skipped right over" your original response....

Based on how he capitalized the word "Right" I was assuming that he was referring to the "Right" side of the polltical spectrum and how it was definitely "Right" wing and the "Right" wing thing to do.

LOL

 

[rightwinger]

Kill Grandma so that you can give tax cuts to the wealthy

Sound political strategy

No . I'm waiting to see grandma eating cat food and the kids dying in the streets.

Apparantly the seniors in this country don't think they should have to make any cuts or tighten their belts just everyone else. They appear to believe they are a priviliged class.
As for taxes for the wealthy. Well I seem to remember reading that those tax cuts generated a whole lot of revenue. Much more than raising taxes would have generated. Am I wrong??

And that is the problem with the Republican budget....They expect seniors, students and the poor to tighten their belts so that additional tax cuts can be provided to the wealthy.

We KNOW who the privileged class is ....don't we?

 

[Anachronism]

What does that even mean??? Care to expand on that and explain your intentions??

Sure. We need another April 18, 1775 or April 12, 1860 moment in this country.

Based on how he capitalized the word "Right" I was assuming that he was referring to the "Right" side of the polltical spectrum and how it was definitely "Right" wing and the "Right" wing thing to do.

No. That's a reference to Right and Wrong as compared to Left and Right.

 

[drsmith1072]

Its a "free ride" because when their money runs out, they are using someone elses.

Those that put into Medicare should take out just what they put in. No more. No less.

Me. Wealthy?? I wish. I just use my money wisely and don't do irresponsible stupid things and expect others to bail me out.

Kinda funny that the rapid climb in H/C costs started shortly after Medicare came on the scene. One has to wonder what the costs would be if the Govt had kept it big fat nose out of the HC industry.

Guess we'll just wait to see how HC costs come down under Obamacare since it does nothing to address the cost either. Wonder how thats gonna work for those of us who actually pay??

First of all have big doubts that health care insurance rates started climbing when "Medicare came on the scene".

Health care cost will probably NOT go down because of Obamacare.

If you have an employer health care insurance plan, your employer is paying for quite a bit of your insurance premiums. When you retire and America is using Ryan's plan, your income will be fixed yet your insurance rates will be climbing much higher than inflation. Ryan's plan calls for using the CPI overall inflation rate (which measures the average annual inflation) to gauge the increase of government contribution to your voucher plan. BUT health care insurance cost inflation has out paced the CPI by at least four times. So in other words, you'll probably be paying a much higher contribution to your health care insurance than you are now and at the same time you'll be in a fixed income and have much less incoming income and disposable income..

The cost of Medicare has doubled every four years since 1966 according to Wikipedia. If Medicare costs rose then its a pretty safe bet that all HC costs went up.

As for my HC insurance I have one thats a $1500 deductable. Not a great plan but then I have never used my H/C benefits in my entire working life. Sounds unbelievable but very true.

As for the senior paying out of pocket under Ryans plan. What do you think will happen if they don't fix Medicare?? According to Wikipedia they spent more on Medicare in 2008 than it brought in with taxes. Where do you suppose they got the money to pay for the shortfall?? I also Wonder how that applies to 2009, 10 and 11. The medicare hospital insurance trust fund will be insolvent by 2019. Wonder where that will leave everyone??

Until they address the cost of HC Medicare will remain a giant albatross around our necks.

WOW! So it's the old spin that we go with their plan or nothing at all. LOL

BTW it's funny how you didn't really address the actual content of his post and started railing against medicare.

It's ok, we already know that you don't like it but how does that address you claims of only getting back exactly what you pay into it when that belief is compared with the reality that kiwi explained to you??

He made an excellent point and you sidestepped as you continued ranting against medicare. WOW!

 

[drsmith1072]

Kill Grandma so that you can give tax cuts to the wealthy

Sound political strategy

No . I'm waiting to see grandma eating cat food and the kids dying in the streets.

Apparantly the seniors in this country don't think they should have to make any cuts or tighten their belts just everyone else. They appear to believe they are a priviliged class.
As for taxes for the wealthy. Well I seem to remember reading that those tax cuts generated a whole lot of revenue. Much more than raising taxes would have generated. Am I wrong??

And that is the problem with the Republican budget....They expect seniors, students and the poor to tighten their belts so that additional tax cuts can be provided to the wealthy.

We KNOW who the privileged class is ....don't we?

She just doesn't see the contradictions in her arguments. She supports taxcuts for the "wealthy" removing the sacrifice on their parts but believes that seniors don't want to sacrifice but should like "everyone else" except the "wealthy" who get tax cuts.

LOL

 

[Claudette]

Kill Grandma so that you can give tax cuts to the wealthy

Sound political strategy

No . I'm waiting to see grandma eating cat food and the kids dying in the streets.

Apparantly the seniors in this country don't think they should have to make any cuts or tighten their belts just everyone else. They appear to believe they are a priviliged class.

Oh look, class warfare. Imagine that.

As for taxes for the wealthy. Well I seem to remember reading that those tax cuts generated a whole lot of revenue. Much more than raising taxes would have generated. Am I wrong??

WOW! So you are actaully trying to compare the results, which you believe that you read somewhere, of an actual even increased revenue more than the results of an event that didn't actually occur?? WOW!

I would say that you are wrong for drawing such a baseless conclusion.

Yes Indeedy. I did read it. So can you.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/3/bush-tax-cuts-boosted-federal-revenue/

 

[drsmith1072]

What does that even mean??? Care to expand on that and explain your intentions??

Sure. We need another April 18, 1775 or April 12, 1860 moment in this country.

So you want a revolution to remove us from under british rule or a division of the country between north and south as we fight a war and kill our own??

Got it.

Do you actually beleive that Americans need to die over the difference in opinion between left and right?? No one is being oppressed in any extreme or unjust manner so why must Americans die in order to make you happy?? What would you hope to accomplish? Furthermore, did it ever occur to you what would happen if you ended up on the losing side?

I have to ask a lot of questions because you are being kind of vague.

 

[Claudette]

First of all have big doubts that health care insurance rates started climbing when "Medicare came on the scene".

Health care cost will probably NOT go down because of Obamacare.

If you have an employer health care insurance plan, your employer is paying for quite a bit of your insurance premiums. When you retire and America is using Ryan's plan, your income will be fixed yet your insurance rates will be climbing much higher than inflation. Ryan's plan calls for using the CPI overall inflation rate (which measures the average annual inflation) to gauge the increase of government contribution to your voucher plan. BUT health care insurance cost inflation has out paced the CPI by at least four times. So in other words, you'll probably be paying a much higher contribution to your health care insurance than you are now and at the same time you'll be in a fixed income and have much less incoming income and disposable income..

The cost of Medicare has doubled every four years since 1966 according to Wikipedia. If Medicare costs rose then its a pretty safe bet that all HC costs went up.

As for my HC insurance I have one thats a $1500 deductable. Not a great plan but then I have never used my H/C benefits in my entire working life. Sounds unbelievable but very true.

As for the senior paying out of pocket under Ryans plan. What do you think will happen if they don't fix Medicare?? According to Wikipedia they spent more on Medicare in 2008 than it brought in with taxes. Where do you suppose they got the money to pay for the shortfall?? I also Wonder how that applies to 2009, 10 and 11. The medicare hospital insurance trust fund will be insolvent by 2019. Wonder where that will leave everyone??

Until they address the cost of HC Medicare will remain a giant albatross around our necks.

WOW! So it's the old spin that we go with their plan or nothing at all. LOL

BTW it's funny how you didn't really address the actual content of his post and started railing against medicare.

It's ok, we already know that you don't like it but how does that address you claims of only getting back exactly what you pay into it when that belief is compared with the reality that kiwi explained to you??

He made an excellent point and you sidestepped as you continued ranting against
medicare. WOW!

He asked a question and I answered it. So Sorry the answer wasn't to your liking. Although I do like your WOW.

 

[drsmith1072]

No . I'm waiting to see grandma eating cat food and the kids dying in the streets.

Apparantly the seniors in this country don't think they should have to make any cuts or tighten their belts just everyone else. They appear to believe they are a priviliged class.

Oh look, class warfare. Imagine that.

As for taxes for the wealthy. Well I seem to remember reading that those tax cuts generated a whole lot of revenue. Much more than raising taxes would have generated. Am I wrong??

WOW! So you are actaully trying to compare the results, which you believe that you read somewhere, of an actual even increased revenue more than the results of an event that didn't actually occur?? WOW!

I would say that you are wrong for drawing such a baseless conclusion.

Yes Indeedy. I did read it. So can you.

DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times

That addresses only HALF of your claim. Here is the half that I was questioning you about.

Much more than raising taxes would have generated. Am I wrong??

So now that your own words have been shown to you, I will ask you, how can you HONESTLY make claims about how raising taxes would have affected revenues when based on the fact that it didn't happen no one could really know how it would have affected revenues?

You are trying to compare the results of an event that did occur to the results of an event that that did NOT occur. One exists the other does NOT, therefore there can be no real comparison.

So why did you skip the part of your claim that I was actually questioning you about??

 

[kiwiman127]

How can Ryan's plan increase revenues when tools for revenues are eliminated?
Ryan calls for ending Capital Gains and Dividend taxes and also eliminating the Estate Tax and topping it off my lowering the top percentile's tax rate by 10%. Everyone else's tax rates stay about the same (Fair?).
I think that there are those who would be in favor of eliminating all taxes on the wealthy and then count on the middle class to make up the difference, which is close to what Ryan is trying to do. Fact, the uber-wealthy make most of their income on investment income.

 

[Claudette]

No . I'm waiting to see grandma eating cat food and the kids dying in the streets.

Apparantly the seniors in this country don't think they should have to make any cuts or tighten their belts just everyone else. They appear to believe they are a priviliged class.
As for taxes for the wealthy. Well I seem to remember reading that those tax cuts generated a whole lot of revenue. Much more than raising taxes would have generated. Am I wrong??

And that is the problem with the Republican budget....They expect seniors, students and the poor to tighten their belts so that additional tax cuts can be provided to the wealthy.

We KNOW who the privileged class is ....don't we?

She just doesn't see the contradictions in her arguments. She supports taxcuts for the "wealthy" removing the sacrifice on their parts but believes that seniors don't want to sacrifice but should like "everyone else" except the "wealthy" who get tax cuts.

LOL

Nope. I support tax cuts for all those who pay taxes. That includes the wealthy who pay the majority of the Fed taxes in this country. I think they pay their fair share.

How bout the 40% who pay for nothing.

 

[drsmith1072]

The cost of Medicare has doubled every four years since 1966 according to Wikipedia. If Medicare costs rose then its a pretty safe bet that all HC costs went up.

As for my HC insurance I have one thats a $1500 deductable. Not a great plan but then I have never used my H/C benefits in my entire working life. Sounds unbelievable but very true.

As for the senior paying out of pocket under Ryans plan. What do you think will happen if they don't fix Medicare?? According to Wikipedia they spent more on Medicare in 2008 than it brought in with taxes. Where do you suppose they got the money to pay for the shortfall?? I also Wonder how that applies to 2009, 10 and 11. The medicare hospital insurance trust fund will be insolvent by 2019. Wonder where that will leave everyone??

Until they address the cost of HC Medicare will remain a giant albatross around our necks.

WOW! So it's the old spin that we go with their plan or nothing at all. LOL

BTW it's funny how you didn't really address the actual content of his post and started railing against medicare.

It's ok, we already know that you don't like it but how does that address you claims of only getting back exactly what you pay into it when that belief is compared with the reality that kiwi explained to you??

He made an excellent point and you sidestepped as you continued ranting against
medicare. WOW!

He asked a question and I answered it. So Sorry the answer wasn't to your liking. Although I do like your WOW.

Thanks for the spin. BTW where was the question that you answered??

Furthermore, how does that adress your spin about how it's ryan's plan or do nothing??