House GOPers War On Birth Control

[Shadow]

Read the bill. Read the analysis of the bill in the article I linked in the Op. If you disagree with the analysis, bring it on...I am happy to hear all about it.

But claiming that because you cannot find the words "no health insurance policy may cover birth control or its attendant costs" supports your conclusion that the analysis is wrong is foolish. As you may have noticed, Newby, not all legislation with a bad or controversial intent is written so that the average fourth grader can understand.

the link you gave is dishonest

You'll notice she hasn't bothered to try or comment on MY link at all.

She probably has you on "fake" ignore.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh, so now we gotta give you birth control which you will not use then feed, house, educate you babies and pump yo breasties??

Yes

If you oppose abortion you have to feed, house and educate all those unwanted children. What do you want to do with them?

I want their friggin parents to feed clothe and medicate them. I'll go along with the education.

Congratulations

Leaving a mother with no options has just added another abortion. Rightwing extremist policies strike again

 

[rightwinger]

I fully understand how you can believe abortion is murder. It is an ethical issue
What I don't understand is how anyone could then oppose birth control which reduces the need for unnecessary abortions

Isn't cutting down the need for abortions a desirable goal?

Not if the taxpayer has to pay for it. Buy your own damn birth control or quit screwing around.

I do love people like RW who try to tell others what their goals are and should be, don't you? I guess he assumes the rest of the world is too stupid to figure out their own goals and priorities for themselves.

Leave an unmarried scared pregnant girl with no other options and she will choose abortion

Why is that so hard for the rightwing to figure out?

 

[rightwinger]

You have to put yourself into the shoes of a young, unmarried pregnant woman and ask why is she considering an abortion..

1. She got pregnant unexpectantly stop fucking outta wed lock
2. She is afraid to tell her parents Maybe she should think of that before she fucks
3. Her boyfriend is pressuring her to abort He is a dirtbag and she should leave him
4. She can't afford prenatal and maternety care Maybe she should think of that before she fucks

5. She will have to leave her job Maybe she should think of that before she fucks

6. She is afraid of who might adopt her baby Maybe she should think of that before she fucks

7. She can't afford to keep a baby right now Maybe she should think of that before she fucks


Until you can reslove those reasons (and other reasons) for getting an abortion, you will still have a high rate of abortion. If you want to ignore them or say "thats her responsibility...she shouldn't have gotten pregnant"
You will continue to have unacceptable abortion rates in this country

There I answered EVERYONE of them for ya..... took me about a minute to do, and it was free!

Congratulations

You have just done nothing to reduce the abortion rate in this country

Time you stop complaining since you are willing to do nothing to help the problem

 

[Retread Ol' 37]

It is my belief that abortions are an effective means of population control and an affordable alternative to supporting an excess population, which will consume a finite number of resources, land, food, and oxygen supply. We should encourage the public, especially those birthing excess children, to use all forms of birth control available to them. And as for funding abortions with taxpayer dollars, I believe a cost-benefit analysis will indicate the money spent oh abortions will be less than the cost for the expansion of infrastructure and resources to accommodate the excess.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes

If you oppose abortion you have to feed, house and educate all those unwanted children. What do you want to do with them?

I want their friggin parents to feed clothe and medicate them. I'll go along with the education.

Congratulations

Leaving a mother with no options has just added another abortion. Rightwing extremist policies strike again

No...It is the extreme left wing policy of not keeping one's pants on OR practicing proper precautions. Condoms are very inexpensive.
That mother of which you post, is responsible as is the man who planted the seed.
How this is a difficult concept to understand is a friggin mystery.
We as human beings may have the absolute right to procreate. We do not however have the right to practice irresponsible sexual acts without the requisite consequences.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You have to put yourself into the shoes of a young, unmarried pregnant woman and ask why is she considering an abortion..

1. She got pregnant unexpectantly stop fucking outta wed lock
2. She is afraid to tell her parents Maybe she should think of that before she fucks
3. Her boyfriend is pressuring her to abort He is a dirtbag and she should leave him
4. She can't afford prenatal and maternety care Maybe she should think of that before she fucks

5. She will have to leave her job Maybe she should think of that before she fucks

6. She is afraid of who might adopt her baby Maybe she should think of that before she fucks

7. She can't afford to keep a baby right now Maybe she should think of that before she fucks


Until you can reslove those reasons (and other reasons) for getting an abortion, you will still have a high rate of abortion. If you want to ignore them or say "thats her responsibility...she shouldn't have gotten pregnant"
You will continue to have unacceptable abortion rates in this country

There I answered EVERYONE of them for ya..... took me about a minute to do, and it was free!

Congratulations

You have just done nothing to reduce the abortion rate in this country

Time you stop complaining since you are willing to do nothing to help the problem

He addressed the problem exactly. People need to understand their are consequences to their actions. With all of the available knowledge and easy access to inexpensive birth control measures, there should be a very small instance of unwanted pregnancies

 

[rightwinger]

There I answered EVERYONE of them for ya..... took me about a minute to do, and it was free!

Congratulations

You have just done nothing to reduce the abortion rate in this country

Time you stop complaining since you are willing to do nothing to help the problem

He addressed the problem exactly. People need to understand their are consequences to their actions. With all of the available knowledge and easy access to inexpensive birth control measures, there should be a very small instance of unwanted pregnancies

You need to understand that abortion is legal in this country, so is sex

Until you can reduce the reasons a young woman seeks an abortion, you will not reduce the numbers. Preaching and "consequences" will not work

 

[rdean]

Madeline. Why do demonRats insist on using abortion as a form of birth control? Rubbers and the pill works better. And, We The People shouldn't have to pay for abortions as birth control.. either. ever. never... amen.

Ever been raped? Oh, that's right, unless it "forcible" it's not rape. Sorry. Forgot.

I guess that means "Abortions are FUN, FUN, FUN".

 

[rightwinger]

I want their friggin parents to feed clothe and medicate them. I'll go along with the education.

Congratulations

Leaving a mother with no options has just added another abortion. Rightwing extremist policies strike again

No...It is the extreme left wing policy of not keeping one's pants on OR practicing proper precautions. Condoms are very inexpensive.
That mother of which you post, is responsible as is the man who planted the seed.
How this is a difficult concept to understand is a friggin mystery.
We as human beings may have the absolute right to procreate. We do not however have the right to practice irresponsible sexual acts without the requisite consequences.

What consequences are those?

 

[Madeline]

I want their friggin parents to feed clothe and medicate them. I'll go along with the education.

Congratulations

Leaving a mother with no options has just added another abortion. Rightwing extremist policies strike again

No...It is the extreme left wing policy of not keeping one's pants on OR practicing proper precautions. Condoms are very inexpensive.
That mother of which you post, is responsible as is the man who planted the seed.
How this is a difficult concept to understand is a friggin mystery.
We as human beings may have the absolute right to procreate. We do not however have the right to practice irresponsible sexual acts without the requisite consequences.

Condoms fail 80% of the time. The use of spermicide cream with a condom raises the success rate to nearly as good as the Pill, but few people seem to know this and fewer still and willing to "deal with the mess".

Where did you get the idea that only liberals have sex?

 

[Madeline]

There I answered EVERYONE of them for ya..... took me about a minute to do, and it was free!

Congratulations

You have just done nothing to reduce the abortion rate in this country

Time you stop complaining since you are willing to do nothing to help the problem

He addressed the problem exactly. People need to understand their are consequences to their actions. With all of the available knowledge and easy access to inexpensive birth control measures, there should be a very small instance of unwanted pregnancies

And so, no middle class woman, married or not, should have access to more reliable but more expensive forms of birth control?

This is not logic...it's emotion. You dislike people who are sexually active, thereisnospoon. Even the married ones who do not want "all the kids God sends them".

 

[Madeline]

Congratulations

Leaving a mother with no options has just added another abortion. Rightwing extremist policies strike again

No...It is the extreme left wing policy of not keeping one's pants on OR practicing proper precautions. Condoms are very inexpensive.
That mother of which you post, is responsible as is the man who planted the seed.
How this is a difficult concept to understand is a friggin mystery.
We as human beings may have the absolute right to procreate. We do not however have the right to practice irresponsible sexual acts without the requisite consequences.

What consequences are those?

So, a married couple with two kids who don't want more should practice abstinence?

How Victorian of you, thereisnospoon. Any other medical discoveries of the past 100 years you feel should be reserved only for the rich?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Congratulations

You have just done nothing to reduce the abortion rate in this country

Time you stop complaining since you are willing to do nothing to help the problem

He addressed the problem exactly. People need to understand their are consequences to their actions. With all of the available knowledge and easy access to inexpensive birth control measures, there should be a very small instance of unwanted pregnancies

You need to understand that abortion is legal in this country, so is sex

Until you can reduce the reasons a young woman seeks an abortion, you will not reduce the numbers. Preaching and "consequences" will not work

Wrong...The question to be answered is when will people take responsibility for their actions and when things do not go as planned, take responsibility for the result.
You don't get to do whatever you want then demand others suffer the consequences.
No one is stating abortion is not legal. Nor is anyone implying sex is illegal.
The issue here is to practice responsible behavior.
Wqe are human beings. We are equipped with the one thing that no other creature on earth has...The ability to reason. With that comes the responsibility to not act on our every impulse and engage in irresponsible or dangerous behavior. At the end of the day poor behavior has consequences. Unprotected or irresponsible sex has consequences...
Pretend you have a teen aged child you KNOW for certain is having sex. Would you then tell them "it's ok"? Or would you advise them on the potential consequences of their actions? I'm going to bet you would do the latter. Based on that, why would you expect any less from anyone else. That on light of the fact that every unwanted pregnancy can result in the taxpayers becoming responsible in one way or another for that pregnancy.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Congratulations

Leaving a mother with no options has just added another abortion. Rightwing extremist policies strike again

No...It is the extreme left wing policy of not keeping one's pants on OR practicing proper precautions. Condoms are very inexpensive.
That mother of which you post, is responsible as is the man who planted the seed.
How this is a difficult concept to understand is a friggin mystery.
We as human beings may have the absolute right to procreate. We do not however have the right to practice irresponsible sexual acts without the requisite consequences.

Condoms fail 80% of the time. The use of spermicide cream with a condom raises the success rate to nearly as good as the Pill, but few people seem to know this and fewer still and willing to "deal with the mess".

Where did you get the idea that only liberals have sex?

First, you're not going to get away with the 80% thing without a link from an independent source. Second, "the mess"?.....are you kidding? That is just the kind of nonsense people come up with as an excuse to behave irresponsibly....so, in your world, because the precautions are "inconvenient" it is better to risk an unwanted pregnancy which you believe the taxpayers or the legitimately insured would then be responsible....Brilliant.
As to your last bit of vapidity, I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Congratulations

You have just done nothing to reduce the abortion rate in this country

Time you stop complaining since you are willing to do nothing to help the problem

He addressed the problem exactly. People need to understand their are consequences to their actions. With all of the available knowledge and easy access to inexpensive birth control measures, there should be a very small instance of unwanted pregnancies

And so, no middle class woman, married or not, should have access to more reliable but more expensive forms of birth control?

This is not logic...it's emotion. You dislike people who are sexually active, thereisnospoon. Even the married ones who do not want "all the kids God sends them".

Of course she should have access. No one is denying said access. she should just have to pay for it. You said so yourself...Middle class. Now you explain to me why it is we taxpayers should fund a "choice"......
You make many assumptions. That makes you a non-thinker.

 

[Madeline]

no, that is a dishonest analysis
please point out exactly where this is in the proposed legislation

If you have not read the bill, how do you know the analysis is dishonest? What is your beef with the National Women's Law Center?

Go to the Op, Divey, and click on the linked article. There is a hotlink there to the text of the bill. Look for the phrase "conscience rights". This is the center's analysis, based on their reading of the bill and an interview with the Committee's counsel:

The Affordable Care Act included, as part of the compromise on abortion, a provision that made clear that nothing in the health care law would preempt state laws on abortion. H.R. 358 expands this provision, preventing the new health care law from preempting any state law - now or in the future - that has to do with "conscience rights." The Energy and Commerce Committee counsel admitted today that this provision goes WAY beyond abortion. In fact, it gives states carte blanche to undo, in the name of “conscience,” almost any federal requirement in the Affordable Care Act.

This loophole means that, under H.R. 358, a state could exempt any insurance plan from a requirement under the Affordable Care Act that insurance plans cover birth control or any other essential health benefits if complying is against its - the health insurance plan's -- "moral convictions."

If you continue to disagree, fine...but I'd like to hear a substantive reply, please.

do you notice they dont actually cite the bill where it says what they claim, right?

Well, hell's bells. I cannot find the phrase "conscience rights" anywhere in the bill, Divey.

Here's a link to the text of H.R. 358, if you want it:

Read The Bill: H.R. 358 - GovTrack.us

I must be tired; I can't follow the Center's reasoning myself. I sent them an email, asking them to clarify and I will PM goldcatt and ask her to have a look-see. As for now, it appears -- ugh, it will just kill me if I have to admit this -- you may be right.

Please wait a day before doing the happy dance; I usually find the Center to be pretty reliable.

 

[asterism]

Christ onna cracker. The bill addresses covered i-n-s-u-r-a-n-c-e benefits, not Medicaid or CHAMPUS. You geniuses slay me -- pull a few "feel good" anti-abortion slogans out of your asses and you think that qualifies as "debate". Even though your points have nothing whatsoever to do with the TOPIC.

You'll find that I have little interest in "debate" on this or any topic, Madeline. My opinions/views do not change.

If an insurance company is taking money from the government, I don't believe they should be covering these things. That is using MY MONEY (via taxes) to cover procedures and products which I believe are immoral and contrary to the betterment of the United States as a whole. Is that on topic enough for you?

Anyone here, married or single, want to be able to access the birth control method her MD reccomends? Or do you think House GOPers know what's best for you?

Umm... I don't think I've seen anything that would make usage of the products illegal. It simply pushes the payment for those products bak where it belongs.... onto the individual choosing to use it, not the insurance company. From what I've read, so long as the insurance company doesn't take government funding, they would still be free to cover abortions and birth control. Sounds totally fair to me.

Insurance companies are not subsidized by the federal gov't, Anachronism. Some people will be forced to buy insurance who might not have otherwise, but it remains entirely private in nature. Except now, they can refuse to cover birth control as the GOP seems to think that's "best" for the middle class.

Again, mad enough to punch a wall here.

You're really mad enough to punch a wall because some plans won't cover abortion? A $500 (at best) procedure? You say this is an attack on the middle class who can easily afford birth control anyway?


Someone drank the "women's power" cool aid. My plan doesn't cover ED. If I ever need it I guess I have to pay cash for it. I wonder if the wife will accept my alternative therapy, paying cash a dollar at a time.

 

[DiveCon]

If you have not read the bill, how do you know the analysis is dishonest? What is your beef with the National Women's Law Center?

Go to the Op, Divey, and click on the linked article. There is a hotlink there to the text of the bill. Look for the phrase "conscience rights". This is the center's analysis, based on their reading of the bill and an interview with the Committee's counsel:



If you continue to disagree, fine...but I'd like to hear a substantive reply, please.

do you notice they dont actually cite the bill where it says what they claim, right?

Well, hell's bells. I cannot find the phrase "conscience rights" anywhere in the bill, Divey.

Here's a link to the text of H.R. 358, if you want it:

Read The Bill: H.R. 358 - GovTrack.us

I must be tired; I can't follow the Center's reasoning myself. I sent them an email, asking them to clarify and I will PM goldcatt and ask her to have a look-see. As for now, it appears -- ugh, it will just kill me if I have to admit this -- you may be right.

Please wait a day before doing the happy dance; I usually find the Center to be pretty reliable.

i had already found that, and read the summary

that'swhy i was asking for where this was in the actual bill because i couldn't find it

 

[thereisnospoon]

No...It is the extreme left wing policy of not keeping one's pants on OR practicing proper precautions. Condoms are very inexpensive.
That mother of which you post, is responsible as is the man who planted the seed.
How this is a difficult concept to understand is a friggin mystery.
We as human beings may have the absolute right to procreate. We do not however have the right to practice irresponsible sexual acts without the requisite consequences.

What consequences are those?

So, a married couple with two kids who don't want more should practice abstinence?

How Victorian of you, thereisnospoon. Any other medical discoveries of the past 100 years you feel should be reserved only for the rich?

Oy vay.....
People should have all the nookie they want. Swing from the chandeliers and use the stairs........If they do not use precautions( responsible behavior), they should be prepared to accept the responsibility of "oops"...
Now can you explain to me what is so difficult to understand about that....