Hope you are all happy

[RetiredGySgt]

2008 was one of 3 years I was worried about, looks like that is still a viable threat.

No bail out and I hope you all enjoy where that leads us to.

Yahoo! Personal Finance

 

[gonegolfin]

2008 was one of 3 years I was worried about, looks like that is still a viable threat.

No bail out and I hope you all enjoy where that leads us to.

Yahoo! Personal Finance

My response to the above nonsense ... directed at Bill O'Reilly and Cheryl Casone ...


I watched about the first ten minutes of the O'Reilly Factor this evening. Both guests were whining and complaining about the failure of the bailout bill in the House of Representatives today. All had the opinion that it was ridiculous to reject a bill simply because people were mad that it would benefit Wall Street. Obviously they completely misunderstand the issue at hand. The rejection of the bill is good because it does not make economic sense. This level of ignorance on national TV compelled me to pen the following response. Note that I am under no illusion that this is over. In fact, I am expecting the leadership (comprised of both Republicans and Democrats) on this bill to target Democrats they think can be swayed into a vote of "yay" via the potential addition of goodies for troubled homeowners (meaning an even more expensive bill). I think this because the Blue Dog Democrats (fiscally conservative Democrats) and fiscally conservative Republicans will likely only be swayed by a complete change in structure of the bailout proposal. That is, a change from buying troubled assets off of the balance sheets of financial institutions to simply insuring these assets. I do not see Bush and Paulson allowing this to happen. We will see. There will be no lack of drama this week, especially after the events in both the equity markets and more importantly the credit markets (most folks do not have their eye on this) today.

Also, the below is a good video clip of Ron Paul today speaking against the bailout plan. Thanks to Jeff Davis for forwarding this ...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBVB1Uc0nko[/ame]

Brian



Mr. O'Reilly,

I was stunned when I heard some of the comments from Cheryl Casone and yourself tonight concerning the repudiation of the bailout plan in the House of Representatives today. The lack of understanding with respect to economics, monetary policy, and our financial system from both you and Cheryl is absolutely staggering (to be fair, it is not just limited to your show). My vehement opposition to the proposed bailout bill has nothing to do with any opposition to bailing out Wall Street, bailing out homeowners, etc. that I might have. It has everything to do with perpetuating a problem that has been caused by precisely the same measures that are being proposed to fix the problem.

Recession is a natural part of the business cycle. Especially so in the unfortunate Central Bank/Fractional Reserve System that we have in this country. Prices must be allowed to correct and find their natural equilibrium, not find an artificial floor (this is a form of price fixing) established by irresponsible monetary policy (executed by our Federal Reserve) that inevitably results in another asset bubble. The excesses and mis-allocation of capital (malinvestment) must be purged in a truly free market system. This is paramount in bringing the economy back into balance. Creating more money and taking on more debt does just the opposite, benefits a minority, and creates a bigger problem in the future. Namely, it benefits the folks that spend the the newly created money first, before prices react to the upside as the new money works its way through the economy. Meanwhile, taking on more government debt crowds out legitimate economic investment as increasingly scarce capital is the source for this expansion of government debt, leaving less for legitimate economic investment. If we pass any sort of bailout, we are going to make the problem considerably worse (somewhat better in the short term, much worse in the long term). Government intervention in our markets will create more instability in the future along with a considerably more painful recession or possibly depression. This is not to mention the tremendous moral hazard present in the solutions being proposed. The free market must be allowed to work.

This problem was not difficult to see coming with just a reasonable background in the aforementioned subjects. I have been warning my friends and family about this for several years. Yes, it is going to be painful to do the right thing. But it is time that we take our medicine (finally ... after several chances that would have yielded a considerably less painful correction) because the cost of papering over these problems (via a foolish bailout measure) will be a much higher cost in the not too distant future.

I hope you take the time to read this and seriously consider it. I also hope that you share this with Cheryl Casone. If you like, I can propose some good reading material that might facilitate a better understanding with respect to the real root cause of the crisis we find ourselves in.

Regards,
Brian Benton (a fiscal conservative wondering if there are any left)
Austin, TX

 

[Zoomie1980]

My response to the above nonsense ... directed at Bill O'Reilly and Cheryl Casone ...


I watched about the first ten minutes of the O'Reilly Factor this evening. Both guests were whining and complaining about the failure of the bailout bill in the House of Representatives today. All had the opinion that it was ridiculous to reject a bill simply because people were mad that it would benefit Wall Street. Obviously they completely misunderstand the issue at hand. The rejection of the bill is good because it does not make economic sense. This level of ignorance on national TV compelled me to pen the following response. Note that I am under no illusion that this is over. In fact, I am expecting the leadership (comprised of both Republicans and Democrats) on this bill to target Democrats they think can be swayed into a vote of "yay" via the potential addition of goodies for troubled homeowners (meaning an even more expensive bill). I think this because the Blue Dog Democrats (fiscally conservative Democrats) and fiscally conservative Republicans will likely only be swayed by a complete change in structure of the bailout proposal. That is, a change from buying troubled assets off of the balance sheets of financial institutions to simply insuring these assets. I do not see Bush and Paulson allowing this to happen. We will see. There will be no lack of drama this week, especially after the events in both the equity markets and more importantly the credit markets (most folks do not have their eye on this) today.

Also, the below is a good video clip of Ron Paul today speaking against the bailout plan. Thanks to Jeff Davis for forwarding this ...
YouTube - You're Going To Destroy A Worldwide Economy! Ron Paul

Brian



Mr. O'Reilly,

I was stunned when I heard some of the comments from Cheryl Casone and yourself tonight concerning the repudiation of the bailout plan in the House of Representatives today. The lack of understanding with respect to economics, monetary policy, and our financial system from both you and Cheryl is absolutely staggering (to be fair, it is not just limited to your show). My vehement opposition to the proposed bailout bill has nothing to do with any opposition to bailing out Wall Street, bailing out homeowners, etc. that I might have. It has everything to do with perpetuating a problem that has been caused by precisely the same measures that are being proposed to fix the problem.

Recession is a natural part of the business cycle. Especially so in the unfortunate Central Bank/Fractional Reserve System that we have in this country. Prices must be allowed to correct and find their natural equilibrium, not find an artificial floor (this is a form of price fixing) established by irresponsible monetary policy (executed by our Federal Reserve) that inevitably results in another asset bubble. The excesses and mis-allocation of capital (malinvestment) must be purged in a truly free market system. This is paramount in bringing the economy back into balance. Creating more money and taking on more debt does just the opposite, benefits a minority, and creates a bigger problem in the future. Namely, it benefits the folks that spend the the newly created money first, before prices react to the upside as the new money works its way through the economy. Meanwhile, taking on more government debt crowds out legitimate economic investment as increasingly scarce capital is the source for this expansion of government debt, leaving less for legitimate economic investment. If we pass any sort of bailout, we are going to make the problem considerably worse (somewhat better in the short term, much worse in the long term). Government intervention in our markets will create more instability in the future along with a considerably more painful recession or possibly depression. This is not to mention the tremendous moral hazard present in the solutions being proposed. The free market must be allowed to work.

This problem was not difficult to see coming with just a reasonable background in the aforementioned subjects. I have been warning my friends and family about this for several years. Yes, it is going to be painful to do the right thing. But it is time that we take our medicine (finally ... after several chances that would have yielded a considerably less painful correction) because the cost of papering over these problems (via a foolish bailout measure) will be a much higher cost in the not too distant future.

I hope you take the time to read this and seriously consider it. I also hope that you share this with Cheryl Casone. If you like, I can propose some good reading material that might facilitate a better understanding with respect to the real root cause of the crisis we find ourselves in.

Regards,
Brian Benton (a fiscal conservative wondering if there are any left)
Austin, TX

Bottom line, until we allow housing to reach its REAL value, NOTHING is going to work. We MUST find the REAL bottom of the collateral behind all this bad debt before we can ever hope to start working it all out of system. Any system that artificially props up the price of housing, is doomed to long term failure.

And if Americans actually have to live off cash for a while (at least for any new purchases) well, that's long overdue. We have got to stop borrowing for EVERYTHING we want and learn to obtain only things we can pay for NOW. And for those things that can only be realistically purchased with credit like homes and cars, they have to be priced at their TRUE market value so the paper backing them is worth something.

 

[Ravi]

From what I understand, and am quite amused by, is it was the far right republicans and the far left democrats that voted against the bill. The far right because it helped homeowners and the far left because it helped corporations.

Except for the repubs that voted because they were in a snit about Nancy Pelosi.

 

[Bern80]

From what I understand, and am quite amused by, is it was the far right republicans and the far left democrats that voted against the bill. The far right because it helped homeowners and the far left because it helped corporations.

Except for the repubs that voted because they were in a snit about Nancy Pelosi.

What a load of stereotypical bullshit. First you're trying to tell us that there was actually something in that bill that would bring relief to homeowners and second, you want us to swallow the assumption that the far right isn't for the american home owner?

 

[jillian]

What a load of stereotypical bullshit. First you're trying to tell us that there was actually something in that bill that would bring relief to homeowners and second, you want us to swallow the assumption that the far right isn't for the american home owner?

and?

 

[jillian]

Bottom line, until we allow housing to reach its REAL value, NOTHING is going to work. We MUST find the REAL bottom of the collateral behind all this bad debt before we can ever hope to start working it all out of system. Any system that artificially props up the price of housing, is doomed to long term failure.

And if Americans actually have to live off cash for a while (at least for any new purchases) well, that's long overdue. We have got to stop borrowing for EVERYTHING we want and learn to obtain only things we can pay for NOW. And for those things that can only be realistically purchased with credit like homes and cars, they have to be priced at their TRUE market value so the paper backing them is worth something.

You know, you wouldn't be saying that if you had a kid going to college and needed your 401K which is now a 201K...

the ignorance and shortsightedness of people never ceases to amazae me. Did you hear the idiot from Michigan yesterday who said he believes his people would choose "freedom over bread"/

Basically he said "let them eat cake"... morons.

 

[Bern80]

You know, you wouldn't be saying that if you had a kid going to college and needed your 401K which is now a 201K...

the ignorance and shortsightedness of people never ceases to amazae me. Did you hear the idiot from Michigan yesterday who said he believes his people would choose "freedom over bread"/

Basically he said "let them eat cake"... morons.

You are right about ignorance and shortsightedness, just not the who. Too many people were too ignorant in understanding the mortgages they got themselves into. And there was definatley short sightedness in a actually believeing their home value would rise imperpetuity. And shortsightedness on the parts of banks to think they could build profit on basically nothing.

And you are essentially saying that beliefs and convictions become expendable when shit happens to you. That how it works for you? Things get tough and you say fuck my standards, gimmie some shit?

 

[jillian]

You are right about ignorance and shortsightedness, just not the who. Too many people were too ignorant in understanding the mortgages they got themselves into. And there was definatley short sightedness in a actually believeing their home value would rise imperpetuity. And shortsightedness on the parts of banks to think they could build profit on basically nothing.

And you are essentially saying that beliefs and convictions become expendable when shit happens to you. That how it works for you? Things get tough and you say fuck my standards, gimmie some shit?

You are proof of what I said. Convictions? About what? I watched the "free market" idiots run the economy into dirt. So where's your high ground?

 

[NOBama]

My response to the above nonsense ... directed at Bill O'Reilly and Cheryl Casone ...

Excellent post, Brian. I already emailed Bill O'Reilly to express my opinion, which parallels yours, regarding that segment of last night's show.

 

[Bern80]

You are proof of what I said.

Proof of what and how exactley?

Convictions? About what? I watched the "free market" idiots run the economy into dirt. So where's your high ground?

You said whoever it was would not be seeing what they were saying if they had to put a kid through college with their 401k in reference to Zoomie suggesting that people should maybe curb their barrowing. Which again suggests that you believe convictions are sacraficial depending on the circumstance in your opinion. Being in a certain situation doesn't make something that is wrong, now right.

As far as blaming the free market, it isn't doing anything it isn't suppossed to do. The free market requires a modicum of responsibility on the part of the people that participate in it. What we have is a failure on the part of many to do that, lending institutions, financial institutions and individuals. And instead of letting the market teach these groups a hard lesson, the government is going to bail them out.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You all enjoy your Top Ramon and your unemployment. Hope you all arm your selves before you go bust, I doubt THIS society will survive a great depression.

 

[dilloduck]

You all enjoy your Top Ramon and your unemployment. Hope you all arm your selves before you go bust, I doubt THIS society will survive a great depression.

Down in flames but not in shame.

 

[Silence]

You all enjoy your Top Ramon and your unemployment. Hope you all arm your selves before you go bust, I doubt THIS society will survive a great depression.

so who are you pissed at RGS? the Dems who brought their required votes or the Repubs who didn't?

You seem to believe the bailout is necessary and the Dems got on board and did what they needed to do...

John McCain promised Republican support and they failed to deliver... what say you?

 

[editec]

editec is having one of his periodic anarchistic meltdowns this AM. Pay no attention to this rant, it's merely me having an existential social meltdown. It'll pass.​

Who stands to gain from the proposed bailout?

Insiders who caused this mess, that's who -- monetary manipulators who produce nothing but a society based on debt and debt and more debt and all of it owed to THEM.

Who pays for it?

Everyone else.

Everyone who actually WORKS for their daily bread. The people who actually make stuff and provide REAL services. They were this systems constant victims.

The credit market is in disarray? No shit. GOOD. Let it BLEED OUT.

The society was in disarray for decades as it sent struggling Americans hundreds of credit offerings every week instead of offering REAL help from our government in the form of jobs and eduction and health care. and PEACE.

It was in disarray when it allowed the credit system to charge people interest rates on credit cards that were ten, eleven, twelve points and MORE above the prime as though it was their god given right to suck the lifeblood out of the the working classes.

It was in disarray when it drove up the price of living far far beyond average people's salaries/

This system was a predatory system that cuased honest working people to borrow more and more just to make ends meet until millions of them were paupers who WORKED HARD just to pay off the fucking credit card Shylocks.

The credit industry became nothing more than an accounting menance to our society.

this corrupted system bankrupted millions of WORKING Americans every damned year, and it ALSO paid off the quislings in our government to insure that even when bankrupted, those citzens would NEVER get out of debt, just like they created a system whereby our NATION could never get out of debt.

I confess, I am experiencing two feelings right now: fear for my society as this ongoing crime of our economy unravels; and schadenfreude because I hate this corrupted system the has been destroying my society for the last three decades.

This credit system that rewards financiers so much, at the expense of those who work for a living NEEDS to burn to the ground.

Let it crash.

I'm convinced we need a cleansing depression and only that will make us RETHINK the social contract such that has been rewarding money manipulation and discouraged working for a living.

Fuck the bond holders.

Fuck the credit mafia.

Fuck the superwealthy.

Fuck this whole corrupted system which encouraged and rewarded waste and fraud and averice and discouraged and punished those of us who were honest citizens who worked for our daily bread.

The people running this nation have treated its citzens as sheep to be sheared my entire life, and their greed has grow to the extent that they have been killing off the herd.

It's time for the SHEEP TO LOOK UP while there's still time to do so.

We ALL KNOW -- left and right and center! -- that this bailout is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

We know it in our heart of hearts that this bailout only gives the criminal class which created this disaster some time to get out of this economy and leave us with the DEBTS that we will owe to THEM!

Why do we have to borrow money from them to begin with, citizens? They don't have any money and they never did!

The rest of us have been lied to by the powers that be every fucking day of our lives, and nobody cared much about owr pain.

Welcome to our world, not quite so inside the insiders' circle as you imagined yourselves to be fellow citizens.

Welcome to our world.

A world where you too can work hard and play by the rules and get screwed royally by a system which is inherently corrupt and FIXED ONLY for the benefit of the SUPERWEALTHY.

Declare a national moretorium on ALL DEBTS.

Screw the banks holding bad paper. Let them DIE.

Screw the credit card bloodsuckers, too.

You want to buy my home and you cannot get credit?

Fine,

I'll finance it for you. I'll keep your paper.

We don't need fucking bank to make that deal happen...and we never did.

That's how it was done in the past, ya' know?

Citizens dealing with citizens without the bloodsucking middlemen bastards taking their pounds of flesh out our every business transation.

 

[Shogun]

You are proof of what I said. Convictions? About what? I watched the "free market" idiots run the economy into dirt. So where's your high ground?

ZING!

 

[Bern80]

ZING!

Deep, rationale, insightful, objective and reasoned as always.

 

[gonegolfin]

From what I understand, and am quite amused by, is it was the far right republicans and the far left democrats that voted against the bill.

Then you do not understand ... yes, the fiscally conservative Republicans voted against the measure. But it was the fiscally conservative Democrats (the Blue Dog Democrats) that also voted against the measure. Not the far left Democrats. The far left Democrats are pushing the bailout proposal to be passed.

Brian

 

[gonegolfin]

I watched the "free market" idiots run the economy into dirt.

Respectfully, this is where you are going wrong jillian. We do not have a free market. We have not had one for quite some time.

I really recommend that you read G. Edward Griffin's "Creature of Jekyll Island".

Brian

 

[Paulie]

2008 was one of 3 years I was worried about, looks like that is still a viable threat.

No bail out and I hope you all enjoy where that leads us to.

Yahoo! Personal Finance

If figures YOU would come in and bitch about one of the most socialistic bills in history not getting passed. You know, being how you are quite obviously a fake conservative.

You probably couldn't coherently explain why this bailout was supposedly necessary, beyond what your favorite MSM pundit spews on the airwaves to the uninformed, frightened sheep.

You're a friggin disgrace, you know that?

Why don't you put your fucking money where your mouth is you fucking moron, and articulate for the rest of us who are far less knowledgable than you, why no bailout is going to ruin this country, and why passing one would SAVE it.

Do that for us, oh wise one. Enlighten us all with your esteemed wisdom.