Homosexuals & the Scripture

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by glockmail, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. glockmail
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    glockmail BANNED

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    This is one of my favorite bombs, as it ties in homosexuality with Arabs and, without mention, Islam. I'm not sure if he's right or not, but he presents an interesting and plausible case. No link, but you can goggle for the author easily enough. The last part is a response from Capener to a question that I asked him in another forum. :blowup:

     
  2. Eightball
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    Eightball Senior Member

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    Glock:

    Curently, I'm attending BSF(Bible Study Fellowship). It's a non-denominational, no fee bible study for men and women.

    It does a study of a book of the bible on a 9 month calendar year from Sept through June.

    We are currently studying the N.T. book of Romans.
    *
    The reason I brought this up, is that the very first chapter of Romans goes extensively, and thorougly into the fall of man and man's need of a relationship with his Creator. Also it(Chapter 1) explains the consequences of Man, willfully ignoring the evidences of God's revealed existence, both through observing creation itself, and also through the special revelatory evidence of Christ's incarnation, life, death(crucifixion), burial, and ressurrection.

    These consequences upon man, include what might be called depravity, or spiraling into the lowest of life condition, mimicking the survivalist, animal world itself, yet we are talking about humanity, not lizards, or Zebras.

    Paul goes on to say that when man is left to his own philosophy or free will to choose with the willful omission of God from the choices, the resultant condition of man is a spiral towards depravity, but initially starts with spiritual blindness or darkening of the soul to any and all things of a Holy, moral, or Godly nature.

    Here is a exerpt from Romans, Chapter 1, that explicitly shows that homosexuality is a result of a sick spiritual condition, not brought on by God, but by man's fallen nature, and that nature's desire to resist God.

    Unbelief and Its ConsequencesRomans 1: 18-32

    18For (AJ)the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who (AK)suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
    19because (AL)that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

    20For (AM)since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, (AN)being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    21For even though they knew God, they did not [c]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became (AO)futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22(AP)Professing to be wise, they became fools,

    23and (AQ)exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [d]crawling creatures.

    24Therefore (AR)God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be (AS)dishonored among them.

    25For they exchanged the truth of God for a (AT)lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, (AU)who is blessed forever. Amen.

    26For this reason (AV)God gave them over to (AW)degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

    27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, (AX)men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, (AY)God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

    29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are (AZ)gossips,

    30slanderers, (BA)haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, (BB)disobedient to parents,

    31without understanding, untrustworthy, (BC)unloving, unmerciful;

    32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of (BD)death, they not only do the same, but also (BE)give hearty approval to those who practice them.

     
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  3. glockmail
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    Sounds like the Democrat Party.
     
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  4. Eightball
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    Eightball Senior Member

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    Well, another interesting part of the Romans chapter 1 excerpt is that it doesn't say that God forced or made these folks do what they did as a result of their rejection of Him, but "Gave them over". This in it's greek translation means that basically God let "God rejecting" man take a "natural" spirial into depravity. In other words, without God in one's life, the alternative is a gradual downward incline towards depravity. This goes for all humanity.

    I also believe that parents may at times be very accountable for the resultant deviancy's that show up in their children, yet those that embrace these deviancy's were given a "will" or "chooser" by their Maker, and were not "puppets" bound for hell, against their will/desires.

    I also love or find interesting where St. Paul in that Romans quote, refers to man's " speculations", and it's resultant or basic foolishness.

    So often I observe on the forums these intellectual wonders posting-away with literary, vernacular, skill, yet missing the elementary wisdoms of common sense.

    God's gospel, is not complex, or hard to comprehend. It is however hard to "swallow" if that person is purposely avoiding, acknowledgement of a Creator, who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent over their lives.

    God-rejecting man's only solace is to make up a system of belief that centers on his or her's philosophically, safe interpretation of life, being, existence, and or accountability to some extent. God's truth is like a bright shining light that leaves no dark places hidden from view. It exposes any and all places that need cleaning. It also exposes and leads one from living a lie to living in a truthful, accountability of their own life.

    Whether a person remembers how they became or got into their particular sin, is irrelevant. Man's desire to escape accountability, is to claim victimhood, when perplexed or pressed to face his very base nature. "I had no choice." "I was attracted to men."

    As Gunny has emphatically said in previous topics along these lines, "No one makes you choose badly, or wrong. You made the choice."

    I would ad one stipulation or further clarification to this issue of choosing poorly/wrongly. No where in the bible does it say that we as Christians are to make choices in life based on "feelings" but on objective reasoning. Feelings are a blessing from God, as they give so much to our very humanity, but feelings are emotions, and emotions are not factual thoughts, but "urgings" such as anger, sadness, joy...etc.

    The same goes for sex, and who and when it happens. Adultery is an urging based on erroneous data or lies. It is a violation of God's stated and emphatic reasoning and command that marriage is sacred, and it metaphorically represents the union of Christ(bride groom) and the church(Christ's bride).

    Just because we are attracted to the same sex, does not validate it as "right". It just means that we have an urging. Urgings or emotions or feelings are not the way we, as humans are to substantiate the truth or the truth for our lives to follow-in.

    As stated in Romans Chapter 1, these folks are without excuse, but do not want to accept that fact. If they accept that fact, they must naturally take the next step of repudiating their wrong choices, and that is the path to repentance or a turning-away of from that wrong/sinful act.

    Why don't people en-mass turn away? Because in most cases, sin feeds or assuages the base, animalistic, fallen nature of man, in his very fallen state. Sin is an escape from accountability. Sin is also very self-centered in it's primal act.
    *
    One famous bible verse says, " Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

    Trouble is, that the fallen nature of man, interprets faith this way, "Faith comes by feeling, and feeling is the substantiator of all truth.". God's Word or truth is followed because it's written down, and interpretted........as written. The world thinks that if something doesn't feel right to them, then it automatically should be rejected. Thence the downward spiral begings.

    The distinction between the two above verses are the distinction between reasoning with a sound mind and reasoning based on feelings/emotions. Feelings can support truth, and feelings can go contrary to truth, yet the world will rely on feelings, and ignore the obvious to their own detrement. Feelings should never be the arbiter of decisions but be the supporter of decisions based on objective reasoning. Homosexuality fails on the objective test, but may pass with honors on the feelings test.
     
  5. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Are you equating adultery with homosexuality ?
     
  6. glockmail
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    Awesome post man. I agree 100% with all of it.

    When I grew up my Mom bought the Dr. Spock book, and the philosophy of the age was to let children "do their own thing". This resulted in a lot of screwed up kids. I think my Dad figured out what was going on and threw the book away, because we were raised the way they were raised. My parents had five kids, and all were married once and are still married. My brothers a kooky liberal- and he has a kid who is an anarchist, but the rest of us all turned out OK.
     
  7. Eightball
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    Eightball Senior Member

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    Equating in what way.........?

    Comparing the two as the same.........? No.

    See the two as both sin..........? Yes.

    One is a violation of the order of God's natural creative design, while the other doesn't violate God's natural creative design, but does violate God's commands to not fornicate, or violate the marriage bed.
    .....
    All have fallen short of the glory of God..........all have sinned.......be it adultery, or homosexuality, stealing, murder, child abuse, spousal abuse, lieing, etc.
    ......
    Distinction: With all the above, what is the perpetraitor's attitude afterwards? Repentance?= Turning away from the sinful act. Contrite of heart, sorrow for doing it, with the willful attitude to change for the better.......
    .....
    For those that say, that homosexuality falls into a different level of sin, that God deals with differently, I see no distinction in the bible.

    I will say that my reading of scripture does mention that in the end, when all are judged..........those that were given a lot of knowledge of right and wrong........will be held with greater accountability for their life's deeds, than those who weren't presented with those opportunities/insights. Never the less, all of humanity is without excuse, as God's existence, is not hidden from them, as it is easily discernible throughout the display of creation itself...i.e. stars, science, macro and micro molecular chemistry with it's mathematically predictable orderliness, micro and macro life, etc.... This all can be found in Romans Chapter 1. That is basically God's, General Revelation of Himself to all of humanity. Now beyond that, there is God's, Special Revelation to humanity, and that is Christ, and the ensuing gospel as clearly revealed in the N.T..
    *
    Yes, I equate homosexuality with adultery in the frame work of disobedience to God.........and that is sin. Isn't it?

    Both also are covered and forgiveable by God through Christ, aren't they?:thup:
    *
    I apologize to you, if I'm going out on a "wrong" track with my reply.
     
  8. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    No apology necessary--you answer was right on track. Thanks.
     
  9. mattskramer
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    mattskramer Senior Member

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    Oh please. The Bible is so full of inconsistency and absurdity that it is practically impossible for a logical and rational individual to take seriously. Besides that, there are many translation and interpretation of the Bible to suit practically any taste. I’m not going to go into a lengthy analysis of the Bible and what is supposedly meant by God’s position on homosexuality or homosexual behavior. Those who really are interested or concerned can read

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm and http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
     
  10. Joz
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    Joz Senior Member

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    The only inconsistencies you will find are due to cultural changes. You have 40 authors spanning over many years. Their message is all the same.
     
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