Govt: "Run it like a business"??? WHY???

[LibertyForAll]

wow this is a confused mess. I agree with you that a government should not be run like a business but it should also not be treated as a vehicle for wealth distribution. The government should lower taxes and it should cut spending and it should get rid of people and cut salaries. The government is a parasite on the economy it takes money out of the economy and adds nothing of value. The prices that you list as going up are going up because of government meddling. Also you seem to be confusing local government services with federal services and they are completely different.

Really. Have you checked Kayak for one-way air faire to Somolia?

Why should I move? I am the one that is happy with our constitution the way it was written. You are the one that wants to change it to suit your opinion of what government should be. Besides Somalia is not a libertarian paradise as some of you claim. Libertarians aren't in favor of getting rid of ALL government, we just want to get rid of the unnecessary parts. The parts that aren't explicitly defined in the constitution as belonging within the sphere of the federal government.

 

[Ernie S.]

Government regulates interstate commerce, thus government certainly has the legal right to step in and assist when utility companies go down because of a hurricane.

No.. that is assisting or enabling the company to do business... not whether the law, regulation, or freedom to participate in interstate commerce is in place and secured

Well, I was thinking the Feds would restore power more so for the sake of people not dying.

Does the Federal Government's building and maintenance of Interstate 95 "assist" or "enable" cab companies to function on them? Or for trucking companies to do business? Or tour bus companies? The Feds obviously "assist" them by providing huge interstate roads.

Or what about federal copyright and patent laws and their enforcement? Surely many companies have made huge profits off these laws being enforced? Thats an "assist", right?

What generally happens after a hurricane is that the local utilities contract with power companies in unaffected neighboring states to assist in restoring power.
When Wilma hit South Florida, there were no federal line crews working to restore power. There were crews from as far away as Ohio who were paid by Florida Power and Light.
After 11 days without power from FPL, the grid was finally restored to my home by a crew from Knoxville TN.
Oh, just so you know what personal responsibility is, the meat in my freezer was still frozen. Yup I own a generator that I paid for, that burned gasoline a neighbor drove 80 miles to purchase while the able bodied cleaned debris from our neighborhood.
FEMA did send Florida National Guard with water and MRE's

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tough for you. Yeah, it is what it is.

Ernie, you guys are headed for defeat this fall. Neither Obama nor Romney believe in libertarianism and Ryan will be exactly where Romney wants him: under his boot heel.

Romney will tell the far right in Congress what he wants. If the TPM does not come through, MR will deal with the dems.

Either way, you lose.

It's a joke, as is nearly every post from JokeStarkey

What ever you say, Joke.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Both the libertarian and far right philosophies are so far simply loony here.

The nice thing is both of those weirdo groups lose this fall.

 

[there4eyeM]

Government isn't a business. Running the country as if were a business would be as stupid as flying an airplane as if it were a bike.

Ah HA! There you go disparaging bicycles! Attacking the noble velocipede, are we? I know the tactics of you people! Well, let me just tell you.....
....excuse me, maybe I got off on a tangent.

 

[Freewill]

A catch-phrase I hear a lot is how government should be run "like a business". WHY????? I doubt many people would actually LIKE govt when it is "run like a business". Here is why:

When a business is struggling, they do a combination of things. Reducing pay for workers is one. Downsizing is another. The beloved private sector has surely shown us that, through emotionless layoffs and outsourcing. But hey, "its just business".

But they also do something else. Raise prices. As we've seen in gas, food, power, water, clothing...really anything we need, the price has gone up. But again, hey, its just business.

So if a government was run like a business, what would it look like? Well, a few thing:

1) Less government workers and programs. Downsizing and outsourcing (by saying let the private sector do it). If we look at supply/demand models that the biz world does, "demand" for government has skyrocketed in our society. People call 911 for damn near ANYTHING these days. Any problem at all, people of all parties say "Someone needs to DO SOMETHING!!". That someone, to most, means the government. THey demand the president, governor, sheriff, mayor, chief, or someone to do something. Keep us safe. Keep us healthy, fix the traffic problems, pave the roads, keep the illegals and terrorists out, keep the air and water clean, etc, etc, etc.

But do they wanna pay for it? REMEMBER: Supply and demand. If they aren't willing to pay for it....be ready to consume far less government, and STOP asking the govt to do as much. A realistic analysis by a fair minded person will inevitably acknowledge our society does have a high demand for government in practical terms if not ideological.

2) "Raise prices". The government...er, business....provides a serivce. Which as I've stated above, is a service that is in high demand right now in society. Well, the government's "price" is the tax rate. If the govt is in debt, they must "run it like a business" by downsizing, outsourcing, and raising prices. Sure, some say lower prices/taxes will bring in more customers and revenue. And that is often true. BUT if so, why have prices for food, water, power, gas, clothing spiked lately???

Seems if raising prices works for the private businesses who produce food, water, power, clothes, gas..................why would a government NOT run it like a business and raise their prices (taxes/fees) also?

So, can someone explain to me why, if the government is run like a business, would they not also raise their prices exactly the same way that JIF Peanut Butter, Exxon Oil, the local water and power companies, Cheerios cereal, Regal Cinemas, and any scores of numbers of other private sector companies have done??????????

(**To head it off early, I know the response of "But we can choose to buy a product, we dont choose to pay taxes" is coming. Answer: You choose which city to pay taxes in. And really....do any of us realistically have a choice but to buy power, water, food and gas? No, we dont. Those are staples of survival. That argument is voided.)

So....are we really ready for government to be run like a business? If you were a victim of a horrible crime, and the local police couldn't solve it because they cut costs and lost all their experienced detectives.......would you accept the neighboring city's PD saying "Sorry, we cant loan you one of our experienced detectives, you dont pay taxes here, our taxpayers dont pay to help you. Sorry, but it's just business."

Food for thought.

In my opinion your concept of running a business is flawed. If business is bad that means that there is not enough people using the product. Obviously raising the price on that product is not going to increase use. Thus we have sales and prices discounted to increase sales. Maybe the profit margin will be smaller but over all income should increase. If not then the business goes out of business.

The government could be the same way. As the economy grows income should increase thus revenue to the government will naturally increase. Thus government takes the same percent out of the economy but revenue increases accordingly. IF the government adopts policies that cause a drop in the economy, as did the "free" trade agreements, then the government revenue should drop and thus they must cut back. The first cut back should be in what we are paying for worthless politicians. Their pay should be directly effected by economic performance. Just as is a CEO's pay. What we don't want to do is make the job of a Congressman so poorly paid that the only ones taking them are worthless fools but there should be a direct cause and effect. Of course voting them out is an answer but we fail to vote our representative out of office.

Think of this, almost everything you buy is taxed at a percentage. That means as that price goes up the government "makes" more money naturally.

So the whole argument, in my opinion, comes down to how much of a percentage of my money should the government be allowed to take. Should I be forced to work 1/2 a year just to pay for taxes, I say hell no. But should I be allowed to ride for nothing? Hell no. Should everyone pay a percentage of their earnings in taxes? Hell yes, if they are using the infrastructure that, as Obama says, someone else made that.

I think you need to reexamine you understanding of business models and free enterprise. I don't mean that as an insult but what this country was doing for 200 years worked pretty damn well for the majority of people. Why we feel we need to now change it seems to me to be a socialist pipe dream.

 

[Desperado]

And thats all fine, IF, you are willing to accept the McDonalds level of govt service rather than the Outback version. If we cut salaries, downsize, etc, we'll have less qualified employees, less services, less capability to "do something" about problems. You'll get:

- Worse roads, less maintenance.
- Less qualified cops, with less experience (more crime, more rudeness, more corruption, longer response time)
- Same as above with firemen (longer response time, less experienced and training)
- An even WORSE situation at the DMV, longer lines, dumber employees
- Worse public schools, less experienced teachers
- Worse public works service: Clean roads, trash service, sewer flow, etc, etc

Your idea is fine, if you are willing to accept far less government service. Each of us will have to contribute more to our own well being in the community. Ready to do so?

Government is not run like a business now, and what you say we would get is exactly what we have now.

 

[there4eyeM]

If government were run as a business, Yellowstone, Yosemite and other natural wonders would be listed as assets and there would be no debt.

 

[Toro]

If we run government like a business, then we should pay heads of government agencies $12 million a year like we do CEOs. Deputy heads could make $2 million a year.

Oh, BTW, for those about to say that CEOs deserve it, there is absolutely zero correlation between pay and performance for CEOs in the private sector.

 

[DiamondDave]

No.. that is assisting or enabling the company to do business... not whether the law, regulation, or freedom to participate in interstate commerce is in place and secured

Well, I was thinking the Feds would restore power more so for the sake of people not dying.

Does the Federal Government's building and maintenance of Interstate 95 "assist" or "enable" cab companies to function on them? Or for trucking companies to do business? Or tour bus companies? The Feds obviously "assist" them by providing huge interstate roads.

Or what about federal copyright and patent laws and their enforcement? Surely many companies have made huge profits off these laws being enforced? Thats an "assist", right?

What generally happens after a hurricane is that the local utilities contract with power companies in unaffected neighboring states to assist in restoring power.
When Wilma hit South Florida, there were no federal line crews working to restore power. There were crews from as far away as Ohio who were paid by Florida Power and Light.
After 11 days without power from FPL, the grid was finally restored to my home by a crew from Knoxville TN.
Oh, just so you know what personal responsibility is, the meat in my freezer was still frozen. Yup I own a generator that I paid for, that burned gasoline a neighbor drove 80 miles to purchase while the able bodied cleaned debris from our neighborhood.
FEMA did send Florida National Guard with water and MRE's

bingo

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Buc was never a republican or conservative. He claims to still hold 90% of his conservative beliefs yet he argues EVERY conservative point put forth.

Sock hack has been exposed

 

[Ravi]

No.. that is assisting or enabling the company to do business... not whether the law, regulation, or freedom to participate in interstate commerce is in place and secured

Well, I was thinking the Feds would restore power more so for the sake of people not dying.

Does the Federal Government's building and maintenance of Interstate 95 "assist" or "enable" cab companies to function on them? Or for trucking companies to do business? Or tour bus companies? The Feds obviously "assist" them by providing huge interstate roads.

Or what about federal copyright and patent laws and their enforcement? Surely many companies have made huge profits off these laws being enforced? Thats an "assist", right?

What generally happens after a hurricane is that the local utilities contract with power companies in unaffected neighboring states to assist in restoring power.
When Wilma hit South Florida, there were no federal line crews working to restore power. There were crews from as far away as Ohio who were paid by Florida Power and Light.
After 11 days without power from FPL, the grid was finally restored to my home by a crew from Knoxville TN.
Oh, just so you know what personal responsibility is, the meat in my freezer was still frozen. Yup I own a generator that I paid for, that burned gasoline a neighbor drove 80 miles to purchase while the able bodied cleaned debris from our neighborhood.
FEMA did send Florida National Guard with water and MRE's

Where did you live? I was so thankful for the power crews from Georgia. And I was thankful again for the Mexican roofers. And I was thankful for FEMA....and the good will of all the taxpayers from around the country. I was more thankful to FEMA and United Way after Andrew and that year we had three hits on the east coast of Florida.

 

[Ravi]

Buc was never a republican or conservative. He claims to still hold 90% of his conservative beliefs yet he argues EVERY conservative point put forth.

Sock hack has been exposed

Who knows, he could have been faking it for a couple of years. Check out his old threads, they certainly bashed liberals. I think his wake up call was when all you idiots agreed with some stupid law that would endanger cops.

 

[DiamondDave]

Well, I was thinking the Feds would restore power more so for the sake of people not dying.

Does the Federal Government's building and maintenance of Interstate 95 "assist" or "enable" cab companies to function on them? Or for trucking companies to do business? Or tour bus companies? The Feds obviously "assist" them by providing huge interstate roads.

Or what about federal copyright and patent laws and their enforcement? Surely many companies have made huge profits off these laws being enforced? Thats an "assist", right?

What generally happens after a hurricane is that the local utilities contract with power companies in unaffected neighboring states to assist in restoring power.
When Wilma hit South Florida, there were no federal line crews working to restore power. There were crews from as far away as Ohio who were paid by Florida Power and Light.
After 11 days without power from FPL, the grid was finally restored to my home by a crew from Knoxville TN.
Oh, just so you know what personal responsibility is, the meat in my freezer was still frozen. Yup I own a generator that I paid for, that burned gasoline a neighbor drove 80 miles to purchase while the able bodied cleaned debris from our neighborhood.
FEMA did send Florida National Guard with water and MRE's

Where did you live? I was so thankful for the power crews from Georgia. And I was thankful again for the Mexican roofers. And I was thankful for FEMA....and the good will of all the taxpayers from around the country. I was more thankful to FEMA and United Way after Andrew and that year we had three hits on the east coast of Florida.

Bet you were thankful for FEMA.. does not change the fact that the federal government is not constitutionally charged to have such a dept/agency...

 

[Ravi]

What generally happens after a hurricane is that the local utilities contract with power companies in unaffected neighboring states to assist in restoring power.
When Wilma hit South Florida, there were no federal line crews working to restore power. There were crews from as far away as Ohio who were paid by Florida Power and Light.
After 11 days without power from FPL, the grid was finally restored to my home by a crew from Knoxville TN.
Oh, just so you know what personal responsibility is, the meat in my freezer was still frozen. Yup I own a generator that I paid for, that burned gasoline a neighbor drove 80 miles to purchase while the able bodied cleaned debris from our neighborhood.
FEMA did send Florida National Guard with water and MRE's

Where did you live? I was so thankful for the power crews from Georgia. And I was thankful again for the Mexican roofers. And I was thankful for FEMA....and the good will of all the taxpayers from around the country. I was more thankful to FEMA and United Way after Andrew and that year we had three hits on the east coast of Florida.

Bet you were thankful for FEMA.. does not change the fact that the federal government is not constitutionally charged to have such a dept/agency...

Yeah, dude, that $230 bucks after paying over 25 years of taxes really came in handy.

Regardless, it isn't unconstitutional, and it certainly isn't a bad idea to make sure that the country as a whole thrives.

Unless you hate the country, of course.

 

[whitehall]

Here's another thought, business people are motivated by the need to make enough money to meet the payroll. Politicians have no such mandate. They get a guaranteed check supplied by confiscating money from the private sector. Politicians make the rules that business people must live by or die but most politicians have no concept of what the real world is about. The former chairman of the House Banking Committee had personal oversight responsibility for the unholy alliance between the private sector and the government called Fannie Mae. The government was calling the shots and Fannie Mae was so filled with corruption and no-show jobs that it was a model for organized crime. When push came to shove Barney Frank told America that Fannie Mae was solvent when it was on the verge of collapse. Frank didn't give a damn. His paycheck was guaranteed so he told a lie for a political dirty trick and so far nobody in the federal government called him on it. History both modern and ancient will tell you that the private sector is smarter than the pretty faces elected to office but the pretty faces make the rules that the private sector has to live by. So here we are in the 21st century when union educated neo-socialists think the government is the solution instead of the problem.

 

[DiamondDave]

Where did you live? I was so thankful for the power crews from Georgia. And I was thankful again for the Mexican roofers. And I was thankful for FEMA....and the good will of all the taxpayers from around the country. I was more thankful to FEMA and United Way after Andrew and that year we had three hits on the east coast of Florida.

Bet you were thankful for FEMA.. does not change the fact that the federal government is not constitutionally charged to have such a dept/agency...

Yeah, dude, that $230 bucks after paying over 25 years of taxes really came in handy.

Regardless, it isn't unconstitutional, and it certainly isn't a bad idea to make sure that the country as a whole thrives.

Unless you hate the country, of course.

Does not matter how much it is.. the fact is it should not be done at all.. even $1 of tax money put on that agency is too much

If it is not constitutional, show the SPECIFIC GRANTING OF IT.. and we have shown SO many times that the general welfare 'clause' that you guys love to use in an incomplete phrase, does not grant that power

You think it is a good idea, start the charge for the constitutional amendment

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have shown that to be your opinion, nothing else

[nd we have shown SO many times that the general welfare 'clause' that you guys love to use in an incomplete phrase, does not grant that power

 

[DiamondDave]

You have shown that to be your opinion, nothing else

[nd we have shown SO many times that the general welfare 'clause' that you guys love to use in an incomplete phrase, does not grant that power

Show the specific power granted in the constitution.. should be simple if it is there... just point out the complete phrase that grants the specific power... we'll be waiting

 

[SniperFire]

A catch-phrase I hear a lot is how government should be run "like a business". WHY?????

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." (Margaret Thatcher)