Government Did Not Build Your Business

[flacaltenn]

Uh -- we're not in 1956 anymore.. Nobody cares what FDR did for his recession because it's nothing like the world economical shrinkage we're seeing now.

And with what Obama has repeatedly said and done to orchestrate his class warfare act puts him WAAAAY to the left of even Truman or Kennedy.. It's NOT that Dem party anymore chump.. Even MAINSTREAM Dems are embarrassed over this blatant attack on economic freedom and Capitalism..

I KNOW my 1950--->1970 history. Don't need it respun..

BTW: Does anyone have a comment about the OP and how the engine has been ripped out of the car that Bush drove into the ditch and Obama is attempting to dismantle for scrap value?

 

[Ariux]

Given credit to government for creating private businesses is one of the most offensive things I've ever heard said by any president.

 

[Bfgrn]

Uh -- we're not in 1956 anymore.. Nobody cares what FDR did for his recession because it's nothing like the world economical shrinkage we're seeing now.

And with what Obama has repeatedly said and done to orchestrate his class warfare act puts him WAAAAY to the left of even Truman or Kennedy.. It's NOT that Dem party anymore chump.. Even MAINSTREAM Dems are embarrassed over this blatant attack on economic freedom and Capitalism..

I KNOW my 1950--->1970 history. Don't need it respun..

BTW: Does anyone have a comment about the OP and how the engine has been ripped out of the car that Bush drove into the ditch and Obama is attempting to dismantle for scrap value?

Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.
Edmund Burke


What NEVER works is what Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon did to bring on the Great Depression...liquidate, and austerity. They listened to the 'Austrian' school. Unless you also believe Medieval blood letting save lives?

Economic Policy Under Hoover

Throughout this decline—which carried real GNP per worker down to a level 40 percent below that which it had attained in 1929, and which saw the unemployment rise to take in more than a quarter of the labor force—the government did not try to prop up aggregate demand. The only expansionary fiscal policy action undertaken was the Veterans’ Bonus, passed over President Hoover’s veto. That aside, the full employment budget surplus did not fall over 1929–33.

The Federal Reserve did not use open market operations to keep the nominal money supply from falling. Instead, its only significant systematic use of open market operations was in the other direction: to raise interest rates and discourage gold outflows after the United Kingdom abandoned the gold standard in the fall of 1931.

This inaction did not come about because they did not understand the tools of monetary policy. This inaction did not come about because the Federal Reserve was constrained by the necessity of defending the gold standard. The Federal Reserve knew what it was doing: it was letting the private sector handle the Depression in its own fashion. It saw the private sector’s task as the “liquidation” of the American economy. It feared that expansionary monetary policy would impede the necessary private-sector process of readjustment.

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.


The Federal Reserve took almost no steps to halt the slide into the Great Depression over 1929–33. Instead, the Federal Reserve acted as if appropriate policy was not to try to avoid the oncoming Great Depression, but to allow it to run its course and “liquidate” the unprofitable portions of the private economy.

In adopting such “liquidationist” policies, the Federal Reserve was merely following the recommendations provided by an economic theory of depressions that was in fact common before the Keynesian Revolution and was held by economists like Friedrich Hayek, Lionel Robbins, and Joseph Schumpeter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mere parsimony (frugality, stinginess) is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

300 Economists Warn Congress: Don't Kill Growth And Jobs In The Name Of Deficit Reduction

A small army of economists warned Congress on Thursday not to focus on deficit reduction instead of job creation or else risk a 1937-style double-dip recession.

"History suggests that a tenuous recovery is no time to practice austerity," says a statement signed by more than 300 economists and policy experts. "In the Great Depression, Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal generated growth and reduced the unemployment rate from 25 percent in 1932 to less than 10 percent in 1937. However, the deficit hawks of that era persuaded President Roosevelt to reverse course prematurely and move toward budget balance. The result was a severe recession that caused the economy to contract sharply and sent the unemployment rate soaring."

Democrats in Congress have had 1937 in mind since March 2009. "We're not going to let it happen again," vowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) at the time.

Nevertheless, deficit hawks dominated the debate in Congress this summer as Democratic leaders struggled to reauthorize a series of programs created by the 2009 stimulus bill. Pelosi and her counterparts in the Senate have had seemingly little choice other than to sacrifice things like COBRA health insurance subsidies and enhanced unemployment benefits to win the support of deficit-hawkish Democrats and moderate Republicans.

"This is about a high road to recovery versus a low road to fiscal balance," said Bob Kuttner of the American Prospect and co-author of the statement, along with the Center for Economic and Policy Research's Dean Baker and the Robert Borosage and Roger Hickey from the Institute for America's Future. "The proper sequencing is: You get the recovery first, that requires increased public investment. And then the road to fiscal balance is much less arduous because people are working, businesses are investing, and tax revenues go up because you're back in recovery.

"There is also a low road to fiscal balance, where you have austerity and you get the budget balanced at the cost of whacking the real economy."

Click HERE to download a PDF of the report.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Here is the problem. What we are experiencing as a nation has nothing to do with the last 3 years. The damage will take decades to repair. What we are experiencing as a nation and a society is the failure of the conservative era and policies over the last 30 years. The Reagan revolution with it's trickle down, top down, lick the ass of the opulent didn't work. It will never work. It didn't create jobs, it create wealth in the hands of a few. They could care less about you or me.

Here is the problem.

Your rhetoric does not reconcile with my direct life experience.

I had better employment opportunities and my investments fared better under Reagan.

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's the problem BFGrn.. The OLD econ books don't work anymore. We don't have the economy we had 50 years ago. 50 years ago you could hand out $100 bills and folks would go out and buy tennis shoes and radios and American factories would crank up and hire workers. 50 years ago, you could tax the fuck out of American corporations and they would just shrug and carry on..

The Keyesian shit doesn't work anymore.. All handing out money does is increase the number of Container ships coming into Long Beach and Chinese factories expansion. Corporations that don't like tax policy here can go serve other markets that didn't exist 50 years ago. Regulations have INCREASED the strangle hold by big biz because it THROTTLES the engine of NEW and INNOVATIVE ventures.

In FACT --- Everyone of these OLD ideas has the OPPOSITE effect that it used to. That's why Obama/Reid/Pelosi are so wrong. MORE regulation and Keyesian crap is GOOD for embedding the power of BIG corporations and INCREASING the wealth gap. You guys don't even realize that those policies feed the crap you abhor.

It's really a shame that you're talking 50 years ago and I'm talking TODAY. Because we'd probably agree on a lot. How the objective SHOULD be to restart Innovation and grow NEW IPOs with more meaning than LinkedIn or Facebook. Our kids are gonna climbing garbage dumps looking for common household objects if we don't address Globalization. And the thread Started out with folks discussing how SMALL and NEW businesses need to be unleashed so that they can KNOCK OFF the big multinationals.

That's why I'm not groovin' on so much reminescing about history. We've got a RIGHT NOW problem that defies an FDR approach. In fact -- you folks that feel that the DEMs always had this right are not gonna be part of the solution if you don't realize it's not 1950 anymore..

 

[Bfgrn]

Here is the problem. What we are experiencing as a nation has nothing to do with the last 3 years. The damage will take decades to repair. What we are experiencing as a nation and a society is the failure of the conservative era and policies over the last 30 years. The Reagan revolution with it's trickle down, top down, lick the ass of the opulent didn't work. It will never work. It didn't create jobs, it create wealth in the hands of a few. They could care less about you or me.

Here is the problem.

Your rhetoric does not reconcile with my direct life experience.

I had better employment opportunities and my investments fared better under Reagan.

I am glad for you. But what has transpired over the last 30 years did not happen over night, but it did begin. And you are one individual, not an entire nation.

Here is what the Reagan revolution created.

 

[OODA_Loop]

When the wealthy have more, I have more.

The chain is as strong as the apex link.

Natural law.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Government Did Not Build Your Business

Don't tell that to Papa Obama and the rest of the left

 

[Bfgrn]

When the wealthy have more, I have more.

The chain is as strong as the apex link.

Natural law.

When the wealthy have more, the wealthy have more. You and I only come into play if they invest that wealth in jobs for Americans. There was ZERO job growth in the 2,000's. So your statement is false.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Government Did Not Build Your Business

True

but they sure can destroy them....

Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Law

Five PA coal-fueled power plants to close due to Obama administration regulation

 

[OODA_Loop]

When the wealthy have more, I have more.

The chain is as strong as the apex link.

Natural law.

When the wealthy have more, the wealthy have more. You and I only come into play if they invest that wealth in jobs for Americans. There was ZERO job growth in the 2,000's. So your statement is false.

Hard work and creating value in myself have created demand for my services by people with money. The best chance to see more of that out of the two choices for the next 4 years is Romney.

 

[uscitizen]

I appreciate your time to do so.

This independent is voting for Romney as the best choice of the two for the next 4 years this time around.

Well, if you believe our founding fathers created a plutocracy, go for it. I have been around since Harry Truman was in the White House. I've seen the catastrophic end result of two revolutions based on pure ideology and doctrinaire. The Bolshevik revolution and the Reagan revolution.

Out of the two choices, Romney simply posessing the keys to the office will instill confidence and free up capex.

Then jobs will follow.

Without that, the other stuff matters not.

Then we will see what the next choices are in four years.

It wasn't Reagan was so great. He wasn't Carter.

Wait and see. I think the Romney supporters will be blaming everything bad on Obama and nothing will really be different.

 

[uscitizen]

Government Did Not Build Your Business

True

but they sure can destroy them....

Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Law

Five PA coal-fueled power plants to close due to Obama administration regulation

so we already have a doctor shortage? Bush caused it I suppose

Yeah it will worsen it is baby boomers retiring.

We can import plenty more from India and such.

 

[uscitizen]

Here is the problem. What we are experiencing as a nation has nothing to do with the last 3 years. The damage will take decades to repair. What we are experiencing as a nation and a society is the failure of the conservative era and policies over the last 30 years. The Reagan revolution with it's trickle down, top down, lick the ass of the opulent didn't work. It will never work. It didn't create jobs, it create wealth in the hands of a few. They could care less about you or me.

Here is the problem.

Your rhetoric does not reconcile with my direct life experience.

I had better employment opportunities and my investments fared better under Reagan.

I am glad for you. But what has transpired over the last 30 years did not happen over night, but it did begin. And you are one individual, not an entire nation.

Here is what the Reagan revolution created.

Yep this was decades in the making and those who blame it on Obama are idiots.

 

[Bfgrn]

When the wealthy have more, I have more.

The chain is as strong as the apex link.

Natural law.

When the wealthy have more, the wealthy have more. You and I only come into play if they invest that wealth in jobs for Americans. There was ZERO job growth in the 2,000's. So your statement is false.

Hard work and creating value in myself have created demand for my services by people with money. The best chance to see more of that out of the two choices for the next 4 years is Romney.

I gave you evidence that the conservative era has been a failure by any meaningful economic measure. I'm sorry. I was talking about my country. But it's really just about you.

Kenneth Friedman - Myths Of The Free Market

As we moved toward an ideology driven 'free market' ONLY belief economically, and away from a mixed economy, the results have been disastrous.

Over the past half-century we have seen lower tax rates and less government interference. We have come a long way toward free enterprise from the proto-socialist policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt. Since the Kennedy Administration we have reduced the marginal tax rate on our highest incomes from the 91% that remained in effect from the 1940s into the mid-1960s (and a brief peak of 94% during World War II) to 28% in the 1986 tax code. Yet our economic growth has slowed.

Decade/Average Real GNP/per Capita GNP Growth
1960-1969 4.18% 2.79%
1970-1979 3.18% 2.09%
1980-1989 2.75% 1.81%
1990-1994 1.95% 0.79%
(Maddison, Monitoring the World Economy 1820-1992 p. .183, 197)

Despite our adoption of the most enlightened free market policies, our performance resembles that of a declining Great Britain in the late nineteenth century.

Free market apologists contend the closer we come to pure laissez faire, the better. But there is little evidence for even this position. The U.S. has come closer to laissez faire than most other countries, especially since the Reagan Administration. If free market policies are the best economic policies then we should have experienced the most robust growth in the world during this period. But this has not happened. We have been outstripped by our trading partners.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

 

[uscitizen]

History will record this as the end of the golden age in America.

 

[flacaltenn]

Government Did Not Build Your Business

True

but they sure can destroy them....

Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Law

Five PA coal-fueled power plants to close due to Obama administration regulation

so we already have a doctor shortage? Bush caused it I suppose

Yeah it will worsen it is baby boomers retiring.

We can import plenty more from India and such.

Sure and we can give complimentary citizenship to all those foreign graduates students that are filling our science and engineering schools. And then YOUR prodgeny can cook burgers for them and mow their lawns..

 

[flacaltenn]

Whooops --- cook VEGGYburgers for the Indian doctors.

International incident there..

 

[Listening]

When the wealthy have more, the wealthy have more. You and I only come into play if they invest that wealth in jobs for Americans. There was ZERO job growth in the 2,000's. So your statement is false.

Hard work and creating value in myself have created demand for my services by people with money. The best chance to see more of that out of the two choices for the next 4 years is Romney.

I gave you evidence that the conservative era has been a failure by any meaningful economic measure. I'm sorry. I was talking about my country. But it's really just about you.

Kenneth Friedman - Myths Of The Free Market

As we moved toward an ideology driven 'free market' ONLY belief economically, and away from a mixed economy, the results have been disastrous.

Over the past half-century we have seen lower tax rates and less government interference. We have come a long way toward free enterprise from the proto-socialist policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt. Since the Kennedy Administration we have reduced the marginal tax rate on our highest incomes from the 91% that remained in effect from the 1940s into the mid-1960s (and a brief peak of 94% during World War II) to 28% in the 1986 tax code. Yet our economic growth has slowed.

Decade/Average Real GNP/per Capita GNP Growth
1960-1969 4.18% 2.79%
1970-1979 3.18% 2.09%
1980-1989 2.75% 1.81%
1990-1994 1.95% 0.79%
(Maddison, Monitoring the World Economy 1820-1992 p. .183, 197)

Despite our adoption of the most enlightened free market policies, our performance resembles that of a declining Great Britain in the late nineteenth century.

Free market apologists contend the closer we come to pure laissez faire, the better. But there is little evidence for even this position. The U.S. has come closer to laissez faire than most other countries, especially since the Reagan Administration. If free market policies are the best economic policies then we should have experienced the most robust growth in the world during this period. But this has not happened. We have been outstripped by our trading partners.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

We didn't create that...somebody else did !

The biggest myth we have is that we ever had much of a free market.

 

[bripat9643]

Here is the problem.

Your rhetoric does not reconcile with my direct life experience.

I had better employment opportunities and my investments fared better under Reagan.

I am glad for you. But what has transpired over the last 30 years did not happen over night, but it did begin. And you are one individual, not an entire nation.

Yep this was decades in the making and those who blame it on Obama are idiots.

True. Democrats have been fucking up our economy ever since the Wilson Administration.