Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what...

[ElephantMcDonk]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

 

[VaYank5150]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

So....adding an additional $700 Billion dollars to the defecit to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans is a GOOD thing? IF Obama had any balls, he would have held his ground and allowed the GOP take the fall for not extending UI as well as allowing ALL of Bush's tax cuts to expire. The GOP made it a point to say 1) their #1 priority is to ensure Obama is a one term President, and 2) that they would not consider discussing ANY further legislation until all tax of Bush's tac cuts were extended. Knowing this, WHY would Obama even attempt to work with these asshats, when all he had to do was call their bluff and see if they REALLY wanted to be responsible for the fallout as we progress toward the 2012 campaign...

 

[DiamondDave]

Personally... I think the smart ground for both sides would have been to go after what each wanted (keeping tax rates and UI extension) and show they mean business by counterbalancing the expense/loss of revenue with cuts in spending somewhere else.... but instead BOTH sides failed and we have a BS situation, yet again

 

[bodecea]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

Red Herring....

 

[bodecea]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

So....adding an additional $700 Billion dollars to the defecit to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans is a GOOD thing? IF Obama had any balls, he would have held his ground and allowed the GOP take the fall for not extending UI as well as allowing ALL of Bush's tax cuts to expire. The GOP made it a point to say 1) their #1 priority is to ensure Obama is a one term President, and 2) that they would not consider discussing ANY further legislation until all tax of Bush's tac cuts were extended. Knowing this, WHY would Obama even attempt to work with these asshats, when all he had to do was call their bluff and see if they REALLY wanted to be responsible for the fallout as we progress toward the 2012 campaign...

Because, it's not about points against the other party...it's about getting things done for the country. Some people seem to forget that.

 

[VaYank5150]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

So....adding an additional $700 Billion dollars to the defecit to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans is a GOOD thing? IF Obama had any balls, he would have held his ground and allowed the GOP take the fall for not extending UI as well as allowing ALL of Bush's tax cuts to expire. The GOP made it a point to say 1) their #1 priority is to ensure Obama is a one term President, and 2) that they would not consider discussing ANY further legislation until all tax of Bush's tac cuts were extended. Knowing this, WHY would Obama even attempt to work with these asshats, when all he had to do was call their bluff and see if they REALLY wanted to be responsible for the fallout as we progress toward the 2012 campaign...

Because, it's not about points against the other party...it's about getting things done for the country. Some people seem to forget that.

The latest figures show that this deal will cause an additional $900 BILLION in borrowing from Communist China just because the GOP demanded that the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans be extended before they would agree to help those currently out of a job. If that is "getting things done", I vote for gridlock.

 

[DiamondDave]

So....adding an additional $700 Billion dollars to the defecit to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans is a GOOD thing? IF Obama had any balls, he would have held his ground and allowed the GOP take the fall for not extending UI as well as allowing ALL of Bush's tax cuts to expire. The GOP made it a point to say 1) their #1 priority is to ensure Obama is a one term President, and 2) that they would not consider discussing ANY further legislation until all tax of Bush's tac cuts were extended. Knowing this, WHY would Obama even attempt to work with these asshats, when all he had to do was call their bluff and see if they REALLY wanted to be responsible for the fallout as we progress toward the 2012 campaign...

Because, it's not about points against the other party...it's about getting things done for the country. Some people seem to forget that.

The latest figures show that this deal will cause an additional $900 BILLION in borrowing from Communist China just because the GOP demanded that the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans be extended before they would agree to help those currently out of a job. If that is "getting things done", I vote for gridlock.

1) It is not a tax cut, it is keeping the tax rate
2) Raising taxes now is not something beneficial for what is amiss in the private economy...
3) 99 weeks should be plenty of 'help'
4) The 'figures' are all over the place.. Every DEM pol or reporter is putting out differing figures

And again... nobody willing to look at cutting back... it's spend spend spend.... cut taxes and cut government expenditures even further... THAT is the only way right now.. and hopefully in the future raise tax income by having people not paying income tax finally start having a stake in the game, and cut even more spending

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

So....adding an additional $700 Billion dollars to the defecit to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans is a GOOD thing? IF Obama had any balls, he would have held his ground and allowed the GOP take the fall for not extending UI as well as allowing ALL of Bush's tax cuts to expire. The GOP made it a point to say 1) their #1 priority is to ensure Obama is a one term President, and 2) that they would not consider discussing ANY further legislation until all tax of Bush's tac cuts were extended. Knowing this, WHY would Obama even attempt to work with these asshats, when all he had to do was call their bluff and see if they REALLY wanted to be responsible for the fallout as we progress toward the 2012 campaign...

But wait, deficit spending to bail out the unions, the banks, the mortgage companies, Fannie, Freddie, Wall Street was a good thing. Not taking more of a millionaire's money is a bad thing?

Oh, all so much class warfare is all this is. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Because, it's not about points against the other party...it's about getting things done for the country. Some people seem to forget that.

The latest figures show that this deal will cause an additional $900 BILLION in borrowing from Communist China just because the GOP demanded that the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans be extended before they would agree to help those currently out of a job. If that is "getting things done", I vote for gridlock.

1) It is not a tax cut, it is keeping the tax rate
2) Raising taxes now is not something beneficial for what is amiss in the private economy...
3) 99 weeks should be plenty of 'help'
4) The 'figures' are all over the place.. Every DEM pol or reporter is putting out differing figures

And again... nobody willing to look at cutting back... it's spend spend spend.... cut taxes and cut government expenditures even further... THAT is the only way right now.. and hopefully in the future raise tax income by having people not paying income tax finally start having a stake in the game, and cut even more spending

But of course, it's allways.. we just don't take enough of your money.

 

[VaYank5150]

The latest figures show that this deal will cause an additional $900 BILLION in borrowing from Communist China just because the GOP demanded that the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans be extended before they would agree to help those currently out of a job. If that is "getting things done", I vote for gridlock.

1) It is not a tax cut, it is keeping the tax rate
2) Raising taxes now is not something beneficial for what is amiss in the private economy...
3) 99 weeks should be plenty of 'help'
4) The 'figures' are all over the place.. Every DEM pol or reporter is putting out differing figures

And again... nobody willing to look at cutting back... it's spend spend spend.... cut taxes and cut government expenditures even further... THAT is the only way right now.. and hopefully in the future raise tax income by having people not paying income tax finally start having a stake in the game, and cut even more spending

But of course, it's allways.. we just don't take enough of your money.

So, why didn't the fiscally conservative GOP hold out for spending cuts rather than extending tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans?

 

[shintao]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

I think you are missing the point with this guy. He is no lefty, he is a con wolf in sheep's clothing, so study the actions and see who benefited, the left voters or the right voters.

When he had a trillion stimulus in his hand, he didn't pass it out to the people, that included the left, the poor in poverty, so they could buy locally all across America. No, he gave it to a handful of he richest people in America, all in the 1% range. He gave it to Wall street.

As the commander in chief, I still see 2-3 US Troops dying in the Afghan shooting gallery. He didn't bring our troops home and end the nightmare. Instead he is paying the richest corporations in America with more contractors on the ground than US Troops boots. And while it may not be on your mind or the media, just what the fuck are they still doing there?

When it came to GM, I think it was pay-back for being elected. GM felt abused in the stimulus plan, and Obama answered the call. Those fuckers don't need money, they have GM plants all over the globe, in every major country, and are building new auto plants as Obama handed them your tax dollars, and as they filed bankruptcy. They didn't sell off a few plants made with the profits off the backs of UAW workers. Plants that use no US labor or materials. Fuck no, they got their bankruptcy.

I have to ask you, what has Obama done for you? A failed NHC program that doesn't cover all American left voters, and can easily be defunded by the right. You would think there would be a clause specifically saying the NHC cannot be de-funded. Where is the EO from Obama?

And Obama is following along in the Bush foot prints of expanded executive power to spy on your family and control you. Oh, I know it is nice to say what is good for the goose is good for the gander, but little has changed, has it?

So please, don't tell this socialist lefty that life is a bed of roses or Obama is a lefty. I would replace his ass in heart beat.

 

[DiamondDave]

1) It is not a tax cut, it is keeping the tax rate
2) Raising taxes now is not something beneficial for what is amiss in the private economy...
3) 99 weeks should be plenty of 'help'
4) The 'figures' are all over the place.. Every DEM pol or reporter is putting out differing figures

And again... nobody willing to look at cutting back... it's spend spend spend.... cut taxes and cut government expenditures even further... THAT is the only way right now.. and hopefully in the future raise tax income by having people not paying income tax finally start having a stake in the game, and cut even more spending

But of course, it's allways.. we just don't take enough of your money.

So, why didn't the fiscally conservative GOP hold out for spending cuts rather than extending tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans?

Good question... personally I would have held out for the keeping of the tax rates (again, it is NOT a cut) and spending cuts... and requesting that $$$ needed for UI extension be linked to necessary spending cuts elsewhere ... but I am a man of principle... not of politics.. more than I can say for politicians.. LOL

 

[shintao]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

So....adding an additional $700 Billion dollars to the defecit to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans is a GOOD thing? IF Obama had any balls, he would have held his ground and allowed the GOP take the fall for not extending UI as well as allowing ALL of Bush's tax cuts to expire. The GOP made it a point to say 1) their #1 priority is to ensure Obama is a one term President, and 2) that they would not consider discussing ANY further legislation until all tax of Bush's tac cuts were extended. Knowing this, WHY would Obama even attempt to work with these asshats, when all he had to do was call their bluff and see if they REALLY wanted to be responsible for the fallout as we progress toward the 2012 campaign...

But wait, deficit spending to bail out the unions, the banks, the mortgage companies, Fannie, Freddie, Wall Street was a good thing. Not taking more of a millionaire's money is a bad thing?

Oh, all so much class warfare is all this is. Nothing more, nothing less.

You still haven't learned anything. They bailed out GM dummy, not UAW. Got it? Get a fucking grip, will you. By your illogical thinking, when he bailed out wallstreet, he bailed out you and the rest of people who own stocks. Ya fucking dummy.

 

[ElephantMcDonk]

It's not $700 billion or $900 billion!

The part that the Republicans want and the Democrats don't is tax cuts for the wealthy. That number over two years is somewhere between $75-140 billion.

$75-140 billion should be the arguing point, not the much more inflated number that includes a bunch of things both sides agree to, including the rest of the tax cuts for the other 98%.

A reasonable point that could be made from the left is the can is just being kicked down the road and two years from now, we'll be in the same situation where those tax cuts will set to expire and it will be extremely difficult to let it happen.

I'd argue that we should focus on the deficit more once the economy and unemployment are headed in the right direction. Make a stand then For now, if it costs $75-140 billion to potentially buy some goodwill with the Republicans and give assurety to employers, it's worth the gamble that the expense is worth it. Even if trickle down economics is functionally a myth, psychologically, at this moment, not raising taxes may help, even if indirectly and maybe subconsciously.

 

[ElephantMcDonk]

Re: Shintao

So please, don't tell this socialist lefty that life is a bed of roses or Obama is a lefty. I would replace his ass in heart beat


With who????????

Do me a favor, because this is part of my point. Name someone that you would prefer to be President in 2013 that could actually win. I'm speaking specifically to Shintao or anyone on the left that agrees with him.

Please be rational. If you name a Republican you like, fine. You can have your line in the sand and say, I'm done with Obama, I'll try a leader from the GOP.

If, on the other hand, you want a different Democrat that you think will fight harder for his/her/your principles, I'd say WAKE UP!

No one would have a chance at beating Obama in a nomination fight in 2012. That candidate's only potential effect would be to damage Obama's chance of winning the general.

On top of that, if you got your 1 in a billion scenario, where A Democrat beats Obama in a primary run and comes out of it, Left of Obama and so strong that he/she wins the general.

That candidate would be surprised what he/she would find when they got to Washington. It's not as easy to dictate terms as you might think.

If you want him to fight harder for your side, no problem, but don't bury the guy. He's on your team and he's the best thing you got. You got no chance of having a President more on your side for at least 6 years. So, I'd say support him.

 

[Newby]

So, if you consider this just losing a pawn, what does check mate for your side look like? A completely socialist country with the constitution thrown in the garbage?

 

[miller]

Destroying the dollar is not even for the benefit of the super rich.

I converted my money to Canadian & Australian at under $.80.

Here's why you're screwed: see http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/

 

[miller]

Too bad none of you understand money or banking.

The constitution has nothing to do with it. If Americans had any clue we'd be in the street demanding an election now before Obama destroys our country.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Game of Chess, Obama let them have a pawn, so what?!...

I'm left of center on most issues, but libs to the left of me need to stop pretending like the President is a Dictator that can do whatever he wants. He needs cooperation to get things done. This talk of a potential nominee to th left of him for 2012 or not supporting him going forward makes no sense. Pragmatically how can you dismiss the guy that's on your side? You don't have a better alternative and won't at any point for at least 6 years. He's picking and choosing fights. Maybe you think he should pick more wisely or negotiate harder and play better hardball, but dismissing him outright as a sellout is unfair and not smart. I don't even think that's an opinion. It's a fact.

If you want him to toughen up fine, but don't throw him under the bus. The tax break for the wealthy for 2 years isn't that large, relative to the potential political gain he could garner from throwing them a bone if you/us libs would allow it.

The FAUX Noise fans are having (somewhat) a problem, with the way things have developed, as well.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Too bad none of you understand money or banking.

The constitution has nothing to do with it. If Americans had any clue we'd be in the street demanding an election now before Obama destroys our country.

You Birchers are toooooooooooooooooooooo dramatic.

​