Forgiveness

[Sky Dancer]

I'll wait a few minutes to see what your edits will be.

You do that. I edt all the time. You don't like it? So be it.

I'm curious. Why do you want to pick a fight? What's your motivation? Are you pissed off at me for some reason?

 

[Sky Dancer]

holier-than-thou

"Refers to someone that is stuck-up, or a snob. They must ALWAYS be the leader, and they are always a good leader. Ironically, they always have numerous faults, but never EVER admit to them."




I'm not a stuck up snob nor trying to be a leader. I recognize my flaws, which are many. I'd be happy to list them but it would take all day.

 

[Si modo]

I'll wait a few minutes to see what your edits will be.

You do that. I edt all the time. You don't like it? So be it.

I'm curious. Why do you want to pick a fight? What's your motivation? Are you pissed off at me for some reason?

You would know if I were "fighting" with you, Sky.

I post here to challenge others' views and to have mine challenged, and to have some fun.

And, it's not that I like or dislike your edits. I just prefer to save myself time. Does that bother you that I do?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I'll wait a few minutes to see what your edits will be.

You do that. I edt all the time. You don't like it? So be it.

I'm curious. Why do you want to pick a fight? What's your motivation? Are you pissed off at me for some reason?

You would know if I were "fighting" with you, Sky.

I post here to challenge others' views and to have mine challenged, and to have some fun.

And, it's not that I like or dislike your edits. I just prefer to save myself time. Does that bother you that I do?

You appear to be trying to pick a fight with me. I'm not going there.

 

[Sirkarl101]

Since this is NOT under politics. Forgiveness in my world depends on the offense. If it against gods laws then only he can forgive. Any crime against man in which harm is done both physically or financially I can not find forgiveness or at least rarely. Some offenses fall under Gods law also. Matters I can forgive are those that are unintentional and minor in nature. Someone hits your car due to icy roads. Someone bumps into you and you spill coffee on you, no big deal. Those are the things I forgive. Any intentional action that a person knows will harm another either physically, emotionally or financially are actions of a person who do not deserves forgiveness under my standards, and should seek them under the God they have turned their back on, if they believe. If you wish to discuss trust, that is easy. You can trust but once, period.

 

[Sky Dancer]

There is a difference between trust and forgiveness. I'm working on forgiving a man who doesn't feel sorry for his actions, and who would likely do the same actions again. I wouldn't ever trust him, but I don't like the feeling I have toward him.

That's what I want to change. I don't want to be replaying the trauma.

 

[Si modo]

You do that. I edt all the time. You don't like it? So be it.

I'm curious. Why do you want to pick a fight? What's your motivation? Are you pissed off at me for some reason?

You would know if I were "fighting" with you, Sky.

I post here to challenge others' views and to have mine challenged, and to have some fun.

And, it's not that I like or dislike your edits. I just prefer to save myself time. Does that bother you that I do?

You appear to be trying to pick a fight with me. I'm not going there.

That's cool.

I'm not trying to fight with you. I AM challenging your views.

You started a thread, apparently curious about how to forgive. You've been given a lot of accounts of the experiences others have had with forgiveness. You reject all of them. That's fine, of course. However, it does bring some doubt about your motivations about either the thread or about whether you want your hurt actually to go away.

You have gotten a lot of attention. Most folks naturally care and want to help. It's a natural human nature. What also is a natural human nature is to stop banging one's head on a wall.

You seem to be stuck on feeling bad, though. As I said, it seems rather addictive in nature. It doesn't seem to be any different than a drunk who wants to stop drinking because it feels bad, knows how to do that, yet still drinks.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You would know if I were "fighting" with you, Sky.

I post here to challenge others' views and to have mine challenged, and to have some fun.

And, it's not that I like or dislike your edits. I just prefer to save myself time. Does that bother you that I do?

You appear to be trying to pick a fight with me. I'm not going there.

That's cool.

I'm not trying to fight with you. I AM challenging your views.

You started a thread, apparently curious about how to forgive. You've been given a lot of accounts of the experiences others have had with forgiveness. You reject all of them. That's fine, of course. However, it does bring some doubt about your motivations about either the thread or about whether you want your hurt actually to go away.

You have gotten a lot of attention. Most folks naturally care and want to help. It's a natural human nature. What also is a natural human nature is to stop banging one's head on a wall.

You seem to be stuck on feeling bad, though. As I said, it seems rather addictive in nature. It doesn't seem to be any different than a drunk who wants to stop drinking because it feels bad, knows how to do that, yet still drinks.

I started the thread because I just came back from a retreat whose theme was gratitude and forgiveness.I'm interested in the topic for many reasons. I have done a fair amount of inner work on trauma healing, but I have this one glitchy place I'm still working on. It's fairly complex.

What made the most sense to me this weekend was the idea that if you aren't yet able to fully forgive someone, then it means you have places inside that still need attending to. Only I can do the attending, I don't expect anything from others.

I started the thread because this is a juicy topic, IMO.

I don't reject anyone's story about what works for them. That doesn't mean that if I don't do what someone else does I don't have the motivation to heal myself. I sense what will work for me is what I learned about this weekend.

It just takes time. It requires patience. I started this thread because I care about the topic, and it's something I haven't mastered myself.

You often choose a harsh interpretation of whatever I post. I'm "stuck on feeling bad", "no different than a drunk", "addictive". It seems like you want to pick fights. You use fighting words.

I don't want to fight with you. One of the skills I'm working on developing is walking away from people who provoke fights. I'm learning to disengage instead of joining.

 

[Si modo]

You appear to be trying to pick a fight with me. I'm not going there.

That's cool.

I'm not trying to fight with you. I AM challenging your views.

You started a thread, apparently curious about how to forgive. You've been given a lot of accounts of the experiences others have had with forgiveness. You reject all of them. That's fine, of course. However, it does bring some doubt about your motivations about either the thread or about whether you want your hurt actually to go away.

You have gotten a lot of attention. Most folks naturally care and want to help. It's a natural human nature. What also is a natural human nature is to stop banging one's head on a wall.

You seem to be stuck on feeling bad, though. As I said, it seems rather addictive in nature. It doesn't seem to be any different than a drunk who wants to stop drinking because it feels bad, knows how to do that, yet still drinks.

I started the thread because I just came back from a retreat whose theme was gratitude and forgiveness.I'm interested in the topic for many reasons. I have done a fair amount of inner work on trauma healing, but I have this one glitchy place I'm still working on. It's fairly complex.

What made the most sense to me this weekend was the idea that if you aren't yet able to fully forgive someone, then it means you have places inside that still need attending to. Only I can do the attending, I don't expect anything from others.

I started the thread because this is a juicy topic, IMO.

I don't reject anyone's story about what works for them. That doesn't mean that if I don't do what someone else does I don't have the motivation to heal myself. I sense what will work for me is what I learned about this weekend.

It just takes time. It requires patience. I started this thread because I care about the topic, and it's something I haven't mastered myself.

You often choose a harsh interpretation of whatever I post. I'm "stuck on feeling bad", "no different than a drunk", "addictive". It seems like you want to pick fights. You use fighting words.

I don't want to fight with you. One of the skills I'm working on developing is walking away from people who provoke fights. I'm learning to disengage instead of joining.

"Fighting words".

What I find rather fascinating is the quality that some posters have at having little insight.

I do know that I provoke you. Some take challenges to their views as wanting to have a fight. It's an interesting insight into that individual, to say the least.

But, I also find that solutions to personal problems are simple much more often than they aren't. From the standpoint of an outsider to your life, I am telling you my impression of your issue. I have little doubt that you feel hurt by whatever this person did to you. When you are sick and tired of feeling hurt you will stop feeling hurt.

Forgive me (or not) for saying so, but a reasonable conclusion is that you want to feel hurt. I know I would examine why I would choose to stay in a spot where I feel bad.

Then again, I don't particularly like feeling bad.

 

[earlycuyler]

There is NO arrogance in decerning verifiable proof that something exsists.

You insult me for NOT following blindly like you do.

I dont accept things without a factual basis.

You did when you accepted your religion.

What makes you think anyone who believes differently then you is doing so blindly?

You accept alot of things without a factual basis. I don't think there is a human being alive who doesn't accept a lot of things without a factual basis mostly because they haven't bothered to question every assumption they make yet.

You should be more accepting to the point of view of others. You don't have to believe it. But you should atleast listen and try to understand things from their perspective. It's easier to forgive others that way.

I do not have a resposibility to pander to a guys religion when he is insulting me for not believing in his religion.

Believing in any belief that is not based on facts does not make you better than me.

i dont have to pretend hes right when he has no proof hes right.

You are as bad as he is, and just as ignorant.

 

[syrenn]

TM is continuously scapegoated. It's disgusting.

TM gets what she gives out.

Oh c'mon. You guys are into TM pile ons and you know it.

TM interacts with each of us. We interact with her. If she interacts with more then one person and more then one person responds...that is not a pile on. That is everyone saying the same damn thing to her...that she is a crazy damn hack loon.

TM gets what she gives out. She calls everyone a liar, they call her a liar back. It rather simple.

 

[Sky Dancer]

TM gets what she gives out.

Oh c'mon. You guys are into TM pile ons and you know it.

TM interacts with each of us. We interact with her. If she interacts with more then one person and more then one person responds...that is not a pile on. That is everyone saying the same damn thing to her...that she is a crazy damn hack loon.

TM gets what she gives out. She calls everyone a liar, they call her a liar back. It rather simple.

Thread after thread after thread in the Flame Zone. It's a pile on.

 

[syrenn]

I just returned from a weekend workshop. We talked about gratitude and forgiveness. I have some new insights about forgiveness and look forward to discussing them with you soon.


Please share your thoughts and feelings about the topic.

Forgiveness cannot be forced, but it can be invited. What's interesting is to examine what isn't willing to forgive inside and to take care of those places.

After going through this thread, it seems pretty clear that you need to feel hurt. You could examine your need to feel hurt.

Yet, that still does not preclude you from freeing yourself from that hurt.

It's rather addictive in nature.

Not at all. I'm hurt because I've been hurt. I'm working on forgiving the person who hurt me. I can and will free myself from hurt.

It's not easy. He's done some terrible things to me and others.

The question is, is if your forgiving them is depend on them forgiving you first.....


just something to think about in the working wheels of the problem.

 

[syrenn]

I happen to be one of them. I don't skewer her character.

That seems rather like a holier-than-thou statement.

No, not at all. The statement describes my generosity toward TM. It doesn't preclude that other people are generous to her as well.

Some, are not. Some like to pile on and scapegoat her. She's continually picked on.

She opens her mouth with hack shit ...and that is the open door, her invitation.....for a response.

 

[Sky Dancer]

That's cool.

I'm not trying to fight with you. I AM challenging your views.

You started a thread, apparently curious about how to forgive. You've been given a lot of accounts of the experiences others have had with forgiveness. You reject all of them. That's fine, of course. However, it does bring some doubt about your motivations about either the thread or about whether you want your hurt actually to go away.

You have gotten a lot of attention. Most folks naturally care and want to help. It's a natural human nature. What also is a natural human nature is to stop banging one's head on a wall.

You seem to be stuck on feeling bad, though. As I said, it seems rather addictive in nature. It doesn't seem to be any different than a drunk who wants to stop drinking because it feels bad, knows how to do that, yet still drinks.

I started the thread because I just came back from a retreat whose theme was gratitude and forgiveness.I'm interested in the topic for many reasons. I have done a fair amount of inner work on trauma healing, but I have this one glitchy place I'm still working on. It's fairly complex.

What made the most sense to me this weekend was the idea that if you aren't yet able to fully forgive someone, then it means you have places inside that still need attending to. Only I can do the attending, I don't expect anything from others.

I started the thread because this is a juicy topic, IMO.

I don't reject anyone's story about what works for them. That doesn't mean that if I don't do what someone else does I don't have the motivation to heal myself. I sense what will work for me is what I learned about this weekend.

It just takes time. It requires patience. I started this thread because I care about the topic, and it's something I haven't mastered myself.

You often choose a harsh interpretation of whatever I post. I'm "stuck on feeling bad", "no different than a drunk", "addictive". It seems like you want to pick fights. You use fighting words.

I don't want to fight with you. One of the skills I'm working on developing is walking away from people who provoke fights. I'm learning to disengage instead of joining.

"Fighting words".

What I find rather fascinating is the quality that some posters have at having little insight.

I do know that I provoke you. Some take challenges to their views as wanting to have a fight. It's an interesting insight into that individual, to say the least.

But, I also find that solutions to personal problems are simple much more often than they aren't. From the standpoint of an outsider to your life, I am telling you my impression of your issue. I have little doubt that you feel hurt by whatever this person did to you. When you are sick and tired of feeling hurt you will stop feeling hurt.

Forgive me (or not) for saying so, but a reasonable conclusion is that you want to feel hurt. I know I would examine why I would choose to stay in a spot where I feel bad.

Then again, I don't particularly like feeling bad.

No, it's not true that I want to feel hurt. It's true that I still feel hurt about some things, and I'm working on taking care of all the places inside that are unwilling to forgive.

You don't know me, or my life. You don't know why the forgiveness in this one case is complicated.

As you say, you are an outsider looking in. Very easy to judge someone. Very hard to do the work I'm doing that you know nothing about. All you do is spin everything I say in the worst way, because you like to provoke and fight.

What I'm learning to do, is not return it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

After going through this thread, it seems pretty clear that you need to feel hurt. You could examine your need to feel hurt.

Yet, that still does not preclude you from freeing yourself from that hurt.

It's rather addictive in nature.

Not at all. I'm hurt because I've been hurt. I'm working on forgiving the person who hurt me. I can and will free myself from hurt.

It's not easy. He's done some terrible things to me and others.

The question is, is if your forgiving them is depend on them forgiving you first.....


just something to think about in the working wheels of the problem.

No, it isn't.

I don't require him to forgive me. My forgiveness is not dependent on his behavior.

 

[earlycuyler]

I am a Christian, and one who struggles with forgiveness several times a day. I am bound by Gods word and his commandments. My Daughter was wronged by a fella and an x old friend of mine. I know how many strides it would take to get from the third pew to the stage where this man still stands and sings hymns, where all the Deacons who can stop me from stabbing this man to death are sitting, and where all the nearby exits from the building are. I even know how to get into the guys house and roughly how long it would take the cops to get there after I air hole the mother fucker. This has been going on for awhile now. For Christians, forgiveness is mandatory. It is impossible to have a relationship with God if you can not forgive. If you are holding a grudge, you are not saved and it is impossible to be saved. That aside sky, what the Bible says about it is not relevant to you, but it is to others. In my case, and that of another man it is not only relevant, but at this time is the only thing between him and a messy death.

From the Bible-

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

And more-

Matthew 6:14-15 Jesus says, “If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.”

Mt 21-22: “Then Peter came to him and asked, “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times? No, not seven times,” Jesus replied, “but seventy times seven!”

Mark 11:25 that “when you are praying, first forgive anyone you are holding a grudge against, so that your Father in heaven will forgive your sins too.”

Matthew 5:23-25 states, “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.”

 

[syrenn]

No, not at all. The statement describes my generosity toward TM. It doesn't preclude that other people are generous to her as well.

Some, are not. Some like to pile on and scapegoat her. She's continually picked on.

Sure it is a holier-than-thou statement. YOU don't do what YOU think is bad, because YOU are better than those who do engage TM.

Holier-than-thou.

Lock up your baseball bat, Sky. I wouldn't want you hurting yourself.

I don't own a baseball bat. I wouldn't use one to harm myself or anyone else.

I didn't say I am better than people who pile on TM. I don't like pile ons and won't participate in a TM one. If you consider that a "holier than thou" statement, so be it. I don't.

Shall we ask FF if you participated in a pile on?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sure it is a holier-than-thou statement. YOU don't do what YOU think is bad, because YOU are better than those who do engage TM.

Holier-than-thou.

Lock up your baseball bat, Sky. I wouldn't want you hurting yourself.

I don't own a baseball bat. I wouldn't use one to harm myself or anyone else.

I didn't say I am better than people who pile on TM. I don't like pile ons and won't participate in a TM one. If you consider that a "holier than thou" statement, so be it. I don't.

Shall we ask FF if you participated in a pile on?

Ask her what you like. I don't like her flame bait threads and I criticise them. She is a snob, big time.

What are you doing here, Syrenn. Trying to help me and FF be friends? I don't think so.

 

[syrenn]

Oh c'mon. You guys are into TM pile ons and you know it.

TM interacts with each of us. We interact with her. If she interacts with more then one person and more then one person responds...that is not a pile on. That is everyone saying the same damn thing to her...that she is a crazy damn hack loon.

TM gets what she gives out. She calls everyone a liar, they call her a liar back. It rather simple.

Thread after thread after thread in the Flame Zone. It's a pile on.

Then she should learn something dont you think?