Forgiveness

[BluePhantom]

I am willing to forgive. I am unwilling to hold onto the feelings of hurt, and enmity.

Imo, you can't "will" or "un-will" holding onto feelings of hurt and enmity. When these issues are sufficiently resolved in your heart and mind, there won't be a will required. It may be that you need to hold onto them long enough to fully examine and understand them, until you no longer have a need for them.

I think this is true to a large degree, but for me I have to make a conscious choice about whether I am going to let something bother me or not. There are some things that have happened in my life that I have not yet forgiven, but it's not because I can't. It's because I won't. To be extremely honest about it I won't because I still enjoy telling myself the story of how victimized I was in that situation. Eventually I will get bored of that story and start telling myself another story about how I became the hero in the face of a difficult situation, but right now I am still happy to tell myself "oh you poor guy, the world is just not fair, woe is me."

I understand perfectly that it's not a healthy or productive thing for me to do, but I am human like everyone else, and I will change my view on it when I am damn good and ready. But I feel I must make the conscious choice to do that. That's just how it works in my twisted brain.

 

[lizzie]

I understand perfectly that it's not a healthy or productive thing for me to do, but I am human like everyone else, and I will change my view on it when I am damn good and ready. But I feel I must make the conscious choice to do that. That's just how it works in my twisted brain.

Then I'd say that you still need it for some reason or another.
Interesting thing that you say you FEEL you must make the choice. We all change our views when we are damn good and ready. That time comes when you no longer need to hold on to the things that hurt. When you get tired enough of it, it will happen.

 

[BluePhantom]

I understand perfectly that it's not a healthy or productive thing for me to do, but I am human like everyone else, and I will change my view on it when I am damn good and ready. But I feel I must make the conscious choice to do that. That's just how it works in my twisted brain.

Then I'd say that you still need it for some reason or another.
Interesting thing that you say you FEEL you must make the choice. We all change our views when we are damn good and ready. That time comes when you no longer need to hold on to the things that hurt. When you get tired enough of it, it will happen.

Again for the most part I agree, but I think what happens sometimes is that we get stuck in our own tale of victimization. I know historically that has been the case for me at least until I learned "the skill" of forgiving. I truly believe it is a skill that one learns how to do. Until I learned that I found myself in situations where my heart and my spirit were screaming at me "get over it dude, this is destroying us", but I had become completely entrenched in my story of me as the victim. I didn't know how to write another story with me as the hero. So I agree with you that at some point you don't "need" that pain anymore and you want desperately to release it but I would say that some people simply don't know how.

That is what I am hearing from Sky. I am hearing her say that she has had enough and wants to get rid of the pain but she is struggling to learn how to go about it. She doesn't know how to write her own "hero story." Again that's just my interpretation.

 

[lizzie]

To me, it's not a skill one learns how to do, but a realization at which one arrives, as a result of understanding oneself and one's relationship to everything and everyone that we come into contact with. I think it comes with learning boundary lines and true self-worth (as opposed to artificial self-esteem).

Iow, if I am happy to be me, all the way throughout my being, heart, and mind, I have no need to react in pain. I am satisfied to let the world be just as it is.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I spent some time with a counseling colleague and we traded Focusing sessions. I worked on my forgiveness issue.

It was interesting. What is down to, was that I was angry at myself for not following my own wisdom in relation to this man, but I was influenced by the Buddhist community in my choices, and they weren't good for me.

I have to forgive myself for not following my own professional inclinations at the time.

 

[Liability]

 

[BluePhantom]

I spent some time with a counseling colleague and we traded Focusing sessions. I worked on my forgiveness issue.

It was interesting. What is down to, was that I was angry at myself for not following my own wisdom in relation to this man, but I was influenced by the Buddhist community in my choices, and they weren't good for me.

I have to forgive myself for not following my own professional inclinations at the time.

Yeah it's different for everyone. How I think about it works for me but may not work very well for others. I think the big thing is expectations. I am convinced that expectations are the root of all suffering. To paraphrase the great Buddhist master, Yoda, expectation leads to disappointment, disappointment leads to fear, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, and this leads to the dark side of the force. It's very difficult, however, to live without expecting things from another and instead simply accepting that which they give you. It's a skill that despite my best efforts has largely eluded me, but I am improving in that regard.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I've been reflecting on something someone said on the thread earlier about self-forgiveness.

It rings true for me in this challenge. I have to forgive myself. I listened to the advice of others, including my Lama and Buddhist community. In retrospect, I should have taken my own counsel and disengaged a lot sooner.

I should have said no to the Lama.

 

[syrenn]

I've been reflecting on something someone said on the thread earlier about self-forgiveness.

It rings true for me in this challenge. I have to forgive myself. I listened to the advice of others, including my Lama and Buddhist community. In retrospect, I should have taken my own counsel and disengaged a lot sooner.

I should have said no to the Lama.

So it could be what you really need sky, is to forgive yourself first

No, someone....i told you that.

And i think you should have told that sadistic lama to shove it all up his ass. Just my opinion though.

So do, please, forgive yourself for following his craziness.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I learned a lot from the experience. Every day some new insight.

 

[syrenn]

I learned a lot from the experience. Every day some new insight.

then it is also possible you need to forgive yourself for the experience...even if you learned something from it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I learned a lot from the experience. Every day some new insight.

then it is also possible you need to forgive yourself for the experience...even if you learned something from it.

Yes, you don't have to keep hitting me over the head with it. I have to forgive myself for not listening to my own internal wisdom.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I've been reflecting on something someone said on the thread earlier about self-forgiveness.

It rings true for me in this challenge. I have to forgive myself. I listened to the advice of others, including my Lama and Buddhist community. In retrospect, I should have taken my own counsel and disengaged a lot sooner.

I should have said no to the Lama.

So it could be what you really need sky, is to forgive yourself first

No, someone....i told you that.

And i think you should have told that sadistic lama to shove it all up his ass. Just my opinion though.

So do, please, forgive yourself for following his craziness.

The Lama is neither sadistic nor crazy. Still, I need to honor my own counsel more than anyone elses.

Some of his advice was wrong. I need to forgive myself for following it.

 

[Liability]

Ok. So what I hear me saying to myself is that I need to learn to forgive myself for what I have chosen to do and to leave undone in the first place.

I forgive me.

This shit is rich.

You know what this thread REALLY really needs? A tiny bit more touchy feely motivational pablum speak.

Yes. That's exactly what the therapist ordered!

And speaking of which, why the fuck is the name of the person who provides one with therapy known as "the rapist?"

The touchy feely pablum speakers couldn't come up with some slightly less politically incorrect terminology?

It's casual.

I forgive them, too.

 

[Liability]

I have been awarded rep from SkyFi asking me ever so politely to "get lost" and informing me that I have nothing to contribute.



I have contributed, though.

I have contributed my opinion. And my opinion is that she talks silly gibberish.

She uses the lingo and talks the talk, the touchy feely pablum speak of the brain washing industry.

"Uh huh. So, what I hear you saying is that you feel as though you aren't being fully appreciated for the profound contributions you have made in the realm of expressing your inner feelings."

<<this reflective counseling technique is designed to get the client to feel as though the counselor is REALLY listening, and just basically repeating the tripe the client has just said in slightly different words gets them to elaborate on their all important "feelings.>>

The funny thing is: sometimes, properly practiced by a skilled counselor, any kind of therapy along those lines could hold some value. BUT, the dimwits who talk AT each other using their buzz words and jargon and touchy feely blather are truly engaged in little more than mutual masturbation.

"I hear you. You feel that your feelings are under appreciated! Tell me, how does that make you feel?"



I forgive myself for feeling that this calls for much more derision than I can provide at this time. It's late. Work beckons.

Hey, Ms. Touchy Feely Positive Affirmation Spewer, do you forgive me for harboring humorous feelings about your expression of negativity?



Here. I shall help you out with a new avie. It's tailor made just for you and your ilk:

 

[Liability]

 

[Dabs]

There is a wonderful saying I heard many years ago.......

Remember To Forgive And Forget.
If You Can't Forget,
Then Forgive Every Time You Remember.

As a person who was abused for many years as a young child and teen, I always thought I hated my Dad (SF).
Even into my adult years, I had unknown feelings of where I stood, and how my future would be, regarding him.
The memories of what happened to me, and my Mother, are forever etched into my head, things I will never forget. But.....thru time.....I found I was able to indeed, love my Dad.....and I forgave him many years before he and Mother passed away.
I had forgiven him before my Mother passed, and that allowed he and I to become closer, if you will, altho we were never as close as my Mother and I were. Dad never told me "I'm sorry"...for all the shit he did and put me thru. I never asked him to. I guess thru actions, we both knew, I was able to forgive, and we moved on with our lives.
To this day, I have people tell me they don't know how I could have ever forgave him for what he did. They say they don't understand how I could shed a tear when he died or how I still shed tears when it comes time for his birthday or the date of his death each year.
But for me......forgiving is what helps me to move forward, with my life. I am a very forgiving person, sometimes too damn forgiving I'm sure. But it does me no good to harbor such ugly feelings and 'hate' people. I needed to forgive my Dad...and I have felt much better after doing so. It wasn't something that happened overnight- I didn't just wake up one morning and say "Hey, today I'm gonna forgive my Dad"......it was a gradual process. And when he died, my heart hurt.....and I cried buckets, for I truly did love him.
I'm glad I was able....am able....to forgive. Makes me feel better about myself.

 

[editec]

I can't onto hold a grudge with a bucket.

Not sure if I actually forgive people, so much as I just move on and don't really give a damn.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I have been awarded rep from SkyFi asking me ever so politely to "get lost" and informing me that I have nothing to contribute.



I have contributed, though.

I have contributed my opinion. And my opinion is that she talks silly gibberish.

She uses the lingo and talks the talk, the touchy feely pablum speak of the brain washing industry.

"Uh huh. So, what I hear you saying is that you feel as though you aren't being fully appreciated for the profound contributions you have made in the realm of expressing your inner feelings."

<<this reflective counseling technique is designed to get the client to feel as though the counselor is REALLY listening, and just basically repeating the tripe the client has just said in slightly different words gets them to elaborate on their all important "feelings.>>

The funny thing is: sometimes, properly practiced by a skilled counselor, any kind of therapy along those lines could hold some value. BUT, the dimwits who talk AT each other using their buzz words and jargon and touchy feely blather are truly engaged in little more than mutual masturbation.

"I hear you. You feel that your feelings are under appreciated! Tell me, how does that make you feel?"



I forgive myself for feeling that this calls for much more derision than I can provide at this time. It's late. Work beckons.

Hey, Ms. Touchy Feely Positive Affirmation Spewer, do you forgive me for harboring humorous feelings about your expression of negativity?



Here. I shall help you out with a new avie. It's tailor made just for you and your ilk:

I have a sincere interest in this topic. You come here to mock. I suggest you go elsewhere to a topic you're actually interested or to the flame zone.

You seem to have a charge with counselors and with people interested in the topic of forgiveness. Examine what that's about for you.

I'm sure you won't contribute anything positive to the topic. All you're interested in is degrading people who want to discuss forgiveness. Take care.

Yes, I forgive you for mocking me and the topic itself.

The "silly gibberish" I'm talking about can be studied in more depth at Focusing Resources. Google Ann Weiser Cornell or Eugene Gendlin.

 

[Liability]

I have been awarded rep from SkyFi asking me ever so politely to "get lost" and informing me that I have nothing to contribute.



I have contributed, though.

I have contributed my opinion. And my opinion is that she talks silly gibberish.

She uses the lingo and talks the talk, the touchy feely pablum speak of the brain washing industry.

"Uh huh. So, what I hear you saying is that you feel as though you aren't being fully appreciated for the profound contributions you have made in the realm of expressing your inner feelings."

<<this reflective counseling technique is designed to get the client to feel as though the counselor is REALLY listening, and just basically repeating the tripe the client has just said in slightly different words gets them to elaborate on their all important "feelings.>>

The funny thing is: sometimes, properly practiced by a skilled counselor, any kind of therapy along those lines could hold some value. BUT, the dimwits who talk AT each other using their buzz words and jargon and touchy feely blather are truly engaged in little more than mutual masturbation.

"I hear you. You feel that your feelings are under appreciated! Tell me, how does that make you feel?"



I forgive myself for feeling that this calls for much more derision than I can provide at this time. It's late. Work beckons.

Hey, Ms. Touchy Feely Positive Affirmation Spewer, do you forgive me for harboring humorous feelings about your expression of negativity?



Here. I shall help you out with a new avie. It's tailor made just for you and your ilk:

I have a sincere interest in this topic. You come here to mock. I suggest you go elsewhere to a topic you're actually interested or to the flame zone.

You seem to have a charge with counselors and with people interested in the topic of forgiveness. Examine what that's about for you.

I'm sure you won't contribute anything positive to the topic. All you're interested in is degrading people who want to discuss forgiveness. Take care.

Yes, I forgive you for mocking me and the topic itself.

The "silly gibberish" I'm talking about can be studied in more depth at Focusing Resources. Google Ann Weiser Cornell or Eugene Gendlin.

I have a sincere antipathy for your sincere interest in the topic. I suggest you make an affirmation to put me on ignore because I love to mock the silly touchy feely talky bullshit you and your ilk engage in.

I feel that you feel that I feel badly about your feelings for my feelings on the topic of these feelings, but of course you seem unable or unwilling to embrace the feelings of bemused derision I feel that I justifiably feel for your feelings about my feelings concerning your concern for feelings.

Feel me?

I forgive you for your condescension, too, toots!