For the moron's who think Terry Schaivo can't recover

[Bonnie]

And good for Terri, she will be with God instead of vegetating here on this hell hole we call earth.

I admit that they are acting normal for parents, normal which in this case means not wanting or not willing to accept reality concerning their daughter.

The laws i'm afraid concerning marriage and decision making are not going to change, this would invalidate marriage for the most part. How would you react if you found out your husband thought you were incapable of making a life altering decision concerning you? I mean there is supposed to be a loving bond, no?

I can tell you if I found out my wife did that i'd be out of there in a heartbeat.

Yes im sure Terri will be in heaven so that is the only comfort I take in this situation.

How would I react? That's hard to answer since my last mariage was not one of a loving bond and I sure as hell would not have entrusted him with any life altering decisions.....Happily that's past now.....If I were to remarry I would hope I would be able to trust that person with my life. But again spouses are different that parents, spouses have romantic love based on many different things, it's not completely selfless, with parents mostly it's unconditional love. I just don't know how most spouses would react if suddenly their whole lives had changed with a catastrophie like this, because after years go by most would want to have another partner to be intimate with, and have normal converstions with etc.

 

[Bonnie]

If someone marries a loser who will leave you because of those things mentioned, well maybe that persons selection process needs to be looked into.

The laws concerning spousal decision making are not going to change, too much grey area, too much room for devaluing marriage. Almost like running to mommy and daddy everytine a husband and wife fight. Parents give their children away in marriage, they don't give them away as in giving a car away but they no longer are number 1 in the eyes of the law....and for a marriage to be successful it has to be that way.

Well that is true and Im glad that you have that kind of marriage, that's the way it should be!!

 

[OCA]

Well that is true and Im glad that you have that kind of marriage, that's the way it should be!!

Well sometimes I think my wife might be having premature thoughts about removing my feeding tube! That look in the eye every now and then sends chills, keeps me on my toes, makes me keep my guns well hidden!

 

[Bonnie]

Well sometimes I think my wife might be having premature thoughts about removing my feeding tube! That look in the eye every now and then sends chills, keeps me on my toes, makes me keep my guns well hidden!

Maybe I just watch too much forensic files and shows about people hiring undercover cops posing as hitmen to kill their spouses?? :tng:

I have a great idea no life insurance that would at least eliminate the money factor eh?? LOL

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

RWA don't be naive, all of a sudden now after fifteen years a doctor comes forward to say she can be rehabbed, funny what people will say or do for cold hard cash.

Did you just fall off the turnip truck today, never took you for being slow.

Actually there have been a dozen or so doctors over the years who are on record in the courts saying that, with the proper care, she could have improved. At this stage, however, I agree with one of your previous statements, it's all a moot point. I don't expect her to live much longer.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

I was going to post something earlier but really didn't have the time to do it. After letting things stew all night, I come home and the thread I was going to post in has been locked. Ah well, same subject here and I can make my point just as easy. Let me set up my soapbox.

First, let me repeat that I do not criticize the judges involved in all this for their decisions. As I've said before, I don't know the ins and outs of what's admissible in court and what's not, they base their decisions on what the law is and to criticize them for that is like criticizing a carpenter for hammering a nail. That's what they are suppose to do.

I'm also not going to fault congress. I don't really like the fact that it got to that point, but at the same time I don't think it's the horrific "abuse of power" that some see it as. They didn't break any law, they didn't change any law, they didn't do any that was unconstitutional, and, as we now know, they really didn't have much of an effect. As I see it, they only made sure every avenue of hope had been opened.

Now, to get to my point...and I do have one...I have to tell a little story. Actually, a rather long one. About three years ago, a boy named Michael, the son of a good friend of mine, started having muscle spasms in his right arm. It got worse after a couple of weeks and eventually started to move to muscles in his neck and legs. Three months into it, the seizures started. The best way I can describe it is it was very much like an epileptic seizure, however he was in no pain and alert the entire time. He could calmly hold a conversation, all the while his arms and legs were jerking and flailing out of control.

His doctor was in Wichita Falls, Texas. After about five months of tests and examinations, the doctor called Michael's mother, symbolically throwing his hands in the air and saying, "I don't know what else to do. I can't figure out what's wrong with him." Michael saw two other doctors in Wichita Falls, one that took only a couple of visits to give up, and another that took a stab in the dark and started medication for Parkinson's Disease. After 6 weeks, there was no change and Michael was starting to get physically ill.

A visit to a children's hospital in Fort Worth brought nothing, so I recommended trying Parkland Memorial in Dallas. Out of 9 Dallas doctors, 6 walked away frustrated, having no clue what was wrong or what to do about it. Two claimed it was all psychosomatic. One threw a fit about the Parkinson's medication and treated it as Progressive Multifocal Myoclonus, but couldn't say why Michael had it. It became apparent that this doctor only seemed interested in making Michael a guinea pig and teaching aid. All of them at one time or another had him on some kind of medication, which was constantly changing. They would take him off one, put him on another, increase the dosage, decrease the dosage, increase the potency, decrease the potency...Not only were his seizures getting more frequent and lasting longer, they were now starting to hurt and all the changing medication certainly wasn't helping the way he felt when he wasn't having seizures.He was 13 years old and looked like an 87 year old man when he walked across the room.

Somewhere along the way, Michael's mother came across the name of a doctor in Houston. He was a highly paid specialist and supposedly one of the best in his field. After literally months of both of us trying to contact him, she finally managed to do so and the doctor agreed to see Michael. They drove from Wichita Falls to Houston, essentially from one end of Texas to the other, for a doctor appointment. When they came home, the news was not good. This doctor said Michael had some kind of brain disorder and there was nothing that could be done. He wanted to prescribe a drug that would, quite literally, lead to a chemical lobotomy. When you're convinced someone will have the answers, it's very disheartening when a lobotomy is the answer you get.

Enter Dr. Brian Bernard. He was not a specialist in any high paying field. In fact, he was a new chiropractor in Wichita Falls, just a couple of years out of school and just opening a clinic. Somewhere along the way he heard about Michael and had an idea he might know what was wrong and offered his services. Willing to try anything, my friend took Michael to see this young doctor, and after one visit, for the first time since all this started, they heard the words, "I think I can help." A month later, the seizures were all but gone and there was no more pain. Two months, and Michael was back where he started with only a spasm in his forearm. Three months, and you couldn't tell there had ever been anything wrong with him.

He is now an average 15 year old that enjoys video games, pizza, and girls in bikinis. This is less than two years after a doctor recommended a lobotomy.

I'm not saying Terri Shiavo could have fully recovered had she been given the right treatment. I don't know if she would have or not. What I am saying is all possibilities should have been exhausted. There is talk of what the majority of doctors say. Well, in Michael's case, the majority of doctors had no clue what to do. The majority of doctors working with Michael were putting him on medication that was doing more harm than good. It was one doctor, a doctor that said "I can help" that made Michael better. Shouldn't Terri Schiavo have been given that chance?

When it comes to Terri's life, one person had more power than anyone in the world. More power than the President, congress, any judge, or even Terri herself. That person was Michael Schiavo. He and he alone had the power to pursue any and all chances that were presented. Even if it was just one doctor that said, "I believe I can help her", it was up to him to take that chance. Instead, he listened to the majority who said there was nothing that could be done.

Is there a person here that wouldn't listen to that one doctor? It doesn't matter who you were responsible for. Your spouse, your child, your sibling, it doesn't matter. If there are 20 doctors or a 1,000 doctors telling you there is no hope, wouldn't that one that said there is have a louder voice to you?

A law should not be changed because of one case, but we can learn from that one case and see the bigger picture. People tend to throw around the term "playing God". Going unchallenged, Michael Shiavo would have the far to close to literal power of God when it comes to Terri Schiavo's life. Frankly, that is not the power any one person should have. Even murderers have police officers, lawyers, a judge, and a jury to go through before they might be sentenced to death. Terri Schiavo had Michael Schiavo. This is a law that needs to be changed and there are far to many examples of a spouse not deserving a life or death decision for their partner to support that change.

One last thing for the people that like to cloak themselves in phrases like "putting her out of her misery". When you sit down for supper tonight, making sure you have a nice big glass of water to go with it, give a thought to Terri laying in her bed. Think about her getting weaker by the minute, her skin getting pale, her tongue swelling as she dehydrates. Then see what other phrases you can come up with to take the place of "She's starving to death."

Bon appetit.

 

[Bullypulpit]

She was misdiagnosed bro. The husband pressured this diagnosis. Those are the facts, regardless of the court ignoring them.

As for your disappointment, it is unwarranted in light of my above statements.

Then listen to the docs who have been following her case since day one. I don't care how good the doc is, they won't be able to make a sound decision on the case after skimming 15 years worth of documentation, watching some video edited from hundreds of hours of video, and spending about an hour with the patient.

As for the family's, doc, he's been called on the mat, and penalized, by Florida's state medical board more than once for fraudulent or exagerated claims regarding his therapies...And he was never nominated for a Nobel Prize.

 

[dilloduck]

Then listen to the docs who have been following her case since day one. I don't care how good the doc is, they won't be able to make a sound decision on the case after skimming 15 years worth of documentation, watching some video edited from hundreds of hours of video, and spending about anh hour with the patient.

As for the family's, doc, he's been called on the mat, and penalized, by Florida's state medical board more than once for fraudulent or exagerated claims regarding his therapies...And he was never nominated for a Nobel Prize.

Agreed----and DAY 1 is when he should have denied the Dr.s the right to insert the tube.! Her husband turned her into exactly what she didn't want to be and gave her parents the idea that this would continue. Lousy guardianship!

 

[musicman]

As for the family's, doc, he's been called on the mat, and penalized, by Florida's state medical board more than once for fraudulent or exagerated claims regarding his therapies...And he was never nominated for a Nobel Prize.

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here, Bully. Hannity interviewed a doctor who says he was nominated for the Nobel Prize in 1999 for his work with patients like Terri. This man said he spent a total of 10 hours with Terri. He also said that children go to school every day who are in worse shape than Terri.

Is this the doctor you're referring to?

 

[MissileMan]

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here, Bully. Hannity interviewed a doctor who says he was nominated for the Nobel Prize in 1999 for his work with patients like Terri. This man said he spent a total of 10 hours with Terri. He also said that children go to school every day who are in worse shape than Terri.

Is this the doctor you're referring to?

There is a difference between being nominated and actually winning a Nobel prize. Does anyone know the nomination criteria...for all I know, his mom put him in for it.

 

[dilloduck]

There is a difference between being nominated and actually winning a Nobel prize. Does anyone know the nomination criteria...for all I know, his mom put him in for it.

The parents aren't expecting her to be Playmate of the month---the just want her to be as comfortable as she can be before she dies. Too much to ask?

 

[musicman]

There is a difference between being nominated and actually winning a Nobel prize. Does anyone know the nomination criteria...for all I know, his mom put him in for it.

Yeah - the nomination appears to have amounted to an informal letter from a congressman. It doesn't meet the criteria for a valid Nobel nomination.

I don't see anything sinister here, though.

 

[musicman]

Yeah - the nomination appears to have amounted to an informal letter from a congressman. It doesn't meet the criteria for a valid Nobel nomination.

I don't see anything sinister here, though.

More likely a mistake on the congressman's part. He probably thought his status as a congressman gave the recommendation the sort of "Imprimatur" that was required. I'm sure he didn't get a letter back from the Nobel commitee telling him the nomination was invalid - so, no deliberate attempt at deception that I can see.

 

[dilloduck]

More likely a mistake on the congressman's part. He probably thought his status as a congressman gave the recommendation the sort of "Imprimatur" that was required. I'm sure he didn't get a letter back from the Nobel commitee telling him the nomination was invalid - so, no deliberate attempt at deception that I can see.

Apparently there are no restrictions or qualifications for a legal guardian so he can act against the professional advice of any Dr no matter how qualified. It really doesn't matter. When he neglected to tell the Dr.s of Terris' wishes to die, he started to act on his OWN wishes--not Terris'. His failure to properly manage Terris' wishes set up this whole grisely scenario. He can stop it anytime by cedeing rights to her parents and wash his hands of the whole mess--why doesnt he do this?. Because he does not like Terris' parents and has not spoken to them for 5 years.

 

[Bonnie]

There is a difference between being nominated and actually winning a Nobel prize. Does anyone know the nomination criteria...for all I know, his mom put him in for it.

And the process for sitting on the bench in Fla is an election, no previous law experience needed!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I realize you think your opinions are facts, but can you post some links to back up these opinions?

Right, only judges opinions are facts. They find based on hearsay that these were her wishes. That's a fact to you?

 

[OCA]

The parents aren't expecting her to be Playmate of the month---the just want her to be as comfortable as she can be before she dies. Too much to ask?

You know that is not what the parents are arguing for. They are arguing to keep their daughter alive as a vegetable for who knows how many more years or decades.

 

[OCA]

Right, only judges opinions are facts. They find based on hearsay that these were her wishes. That's a fact to you?

RWA i'm no fan of Missle but I think he is asking what many have asked of you for many moons here, to back up your opinions and positions with data.....why you refuse to do that is beyond me.

 

[dilloduck]

You know that is not what the parents are arguing for. They are arguing to keep their daughter alive as a vegetable for who knows how many more years or decades.

When did they say this?

 

[OCA]

When did they say this?

Its in their every statement, they say that they want the tube reinserted and believe that there is a chance at rehabilitation, nowhere in their public statements can you find record of them saying we just want to be with Terri these last few days of her life for comfort reasons. They solely want the tube reinserted for an indeterminent amount of time.