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Combat VETS! Is that what you are depending on? What happens when they are gone? If they don't like the rules of the all volunteer social club and find employment elsewhere, then what? If one of those combat vets flattens the little flamer grabbing his crotch you AGREE that the vet shouldn't be in the service. When the military has been cleansed of men have you thought about what will be left?
Since the ultimate purpose of the military is to fight our wars, yes. Admittedly, there are some people in the military who treat their service as a 20 year government job with retirement and benefits. I suppose that it might be easier for such people to lose sight of the actual mission.
For people like you, who have never been in combat, you have no actual perspective about what you are bitching about. This is further compounded by the fact that you have been sold a bill of fucking goods by conservative windpipes (who have never served) about what military service is about. It's a completely distorted view. The military is not some sort of GOP/conservative axillary group that is constantly being harassed by the regulations of the liberals. On the line and in combat, no one has time to give two fucks about how someone votes, what color they are, or who they sleep with.
You also don't get this little fact: good soldiers follow lawful orders whether they agree with them or not. A soldier who can not follow orders doesn't want to be a member of the team. He wants to be an individual. If he can't follow a small order like following the laws of the land (which includes not using drugs, not accosting people (grabbing a crotch), not assaulting people, or not driving drunk), he won't follow big orders in combat (like keeping his weapon clean) and will get people killed. Ability to follow little orders is just a barometer to ensure a soldier will do the right thing when it's a whole hell of a lot more stressful. You think the major life stressors in a soldier's life are who his buddy decides to fuck? You don't have a clue. The really stressful stuff involves pondering a ramp ceremony and your weeping wife and family or a lifetime without limbs or eyesight.
So yeah, combat matters. Everything else is just training.
I am glad you never served. You might have been my problem to deal with. You clearly don't get it.
Of course I get it. The military is becoming a nicely organized social club where the orgasm enjoyed by the members takes precedence over any other discipline. It's the law of the land! The military is supposed to follow orders. Just change the orders! Give some training in how to react when two guys start making out in the mess hall or getting it on in the shower. Training, tolerance, sensitivity, compassion, caring. Not all that awful rough stuff. It is all about changing the military culture. Start with gay clubs, then put fighting men in fake tits and bellies. Anyone who doesn't get it by now is unwilling to get it.
It's not like this hasn't happened before. It's been going on for years. We have certainly seen where it goes. The military is late to the party. The police have been changing the culture for 20 years. Unless you think there is some difference between a military battlefield death and an urban street battlefield death your postulations make no sense. Clue one, they are both STILL DEAD and the surviving family all get a nicely folded flag.
Tell me how making the military less effective and more gay friendly is going to make the nation safer? I'm interested because making the police less effective and more gay friendly hasn't made any cities safer.
Since the ultimate purpose of the military is to fight our wars, yes. Admittedly, there are some people in the military who treat their service as a 20 year government job with retirement and benefits. I suppose that it might be easier for such people to lose sight of the actual mission.
For people like you, who have never been in combat, you have no actual perspective about what you are bitching about. This is further compounded by the fact that you have been sold a bill of fucking goods by conservative windpipes (who have never served) about what military service is about. It's a completely distorted view. The military is not some sort of GOP/conservative axillary group that is constantly being harassed by the regulations of the liberals. On the line and in combat, no one has time to give two fucks about how someone votes, what color they are, or who they sleep with.
You also don't get this little fact: good soldiers follow lawful orders whether they agree with them or not. A soldier who can not follow orders doesn't want to be a member of the team. He wants to be an individual. If he can't follow a small order like following the laws of the land (which includes not using drugs, not accosting people (grabbing a crotch), not assaulting people, or not driving drunk), he won't follow big orders in combat (like keeping his weapon clean) and will get people killed. Ability to follow little orders is just a barometer to ensure a soldier will do the right thing when it's a whole hell of a lot more stressful. You think the major life stressors in a soldier's life are who his buddy decides to fuck? You don't have a clue. The really stressful stuff involves pondering a ramp ceremony and your weeping wife and family or a lifetime without limbs or eyesight.
So yeah, combat matters. Everything else is just training.
I am glad you never served. You might have been my problem to deal with. You clearly don't get it.
Of course I get it. The military is becoming a nicely organized social club where the orgasm enjoyed by the members takes precedence over any other discipline. It's the law of the land! The military is supposed to follow orders. Just change the orders! Give some training in how to react when two guys start making out in the mess hall or getting it on in the shower. Training, tolerance, sensitivity, compassion, caring. Not all that awful rough stuff. It is all about changing the military culture. Start with gay clubs, then put fighting men in fake tits and bellies. Anyone who doesn't get it by now is unwilling to get it.
It's not like this hasn't happened before. It's been going on for years. We have certainly seen where it goes. The military is late to the party. The police have been changing the culture for 20 years. Unless you think there is some difference between a military battlefield death and an urban street battlefield death your postulations make no sense. Clue one, they are both STILL DEAD and the surviving family all get a nicely folded flag.
Tell me how making the military less effective and more gay friendly is going to make the nation safer? I'm interested because making the police less effective and more gay friendly hasn't made any cities safer.
First you have to support your a priori that getting rid of DADT makes the military less effective. I don't really care about your " fake tits" rant. It's not Germaine.
The mission continues. Those who can't get with the program can go somewhere else.
Just as was the case in 1954.
How are people supposed to get out of deploying now?
Did you witness that when you deployed?
These guys who have served in the military are really quite funny, they think that todays military is remotely like the same military they served in.
What size fake tits did you wear when you were serving. Were they double D?
It's better. It's chock full of combat veterans that have been in the shit, and all you can obsess about is you own homophobia.
Telling.
Combat VETS! Is that what you are depending on? What happens when they are gone? If they don't like the rules of the all volunteer social club and find employment elsewhere, then what? If one of those combat vets flattens the little flamer grabbing his crotch you AGREE that the vet shouldn't be in the service. When the military has been cleansed of men have you thought about what will be left?
How are people supposed to get out of deploying now?
Did you witness that when you deployed?
Oh, yeah! Women could always get knocked up to get out of things, but at least they got reassigned to a non-deploying position. If a guy didn't want to deploy, particularly to a combat zone, he "came out". Big difference was, he had to look for another job. But, hey, from what I've been told here, gays are smarter, more talented, and harder workers expecting to earn much more than their straight counterparts, so finding a civilian job should have been a cinch.
It's better. It's chock full of combat veterans that have been in the shit, and all you can obsess about is you own homophobia.
Telling.
Combat VETS! Is that what you are depending on? What happens when they are gone? If they don't like the rules of the all volunteer social club and find employment elsewhere, then what? If one of those combat vets flattens the little flamer grabbing his crotch you AGREE that the vet shouldn't be in the service. When the military has been cleansed of men have you thought about what will be left?
The very same people who condemn combat vets, or anyone else, for that matter, who object to being hit on by homosexuals/lesbians, will defend the crotch-grabbing flamer's right to hit on them.
Hhhmm, curiouser and curiouser...
Iran is threatening preemptive action, moving towards their version of paradise by starting a nuclear war, claims a right to close a major shipping lane AND the major concern of our military are the formation of gay clubs, and whether pregnant women feel included.
No, I don't get it.
I seriously doubt that the major concern of our military is the formation of gay clubs and whether pregnant women feel included.
Absolutely. You agree with me. Fighting men can join a gang, find a militia, they don't have to stay with an increasingly ineffective and insipid American military.
Combat VETS! Is that what you are depending on? What happens when they are gone? If they don't like the rules of the all volunteer social club and find employment elsewhere, then what? If one of those combat vets flattens the little flamer grabbing his crotch you AGREE that the vet shouldn't be in the service. When the military has been cleansed of men have you thought about what will be left?
The very same people who condemn combat vets, or anyone else, for that matter, who object to being hit on by homosexuals/lesbians, will defend the crotch-grabbing flamer's right to hit on them.
Hhhmm, curiouser and curiouser...
First, I am a combat vet. That's why I know that 99% of the talking points are bullshit.
Secondly, I most certainly did not defend someone accosting someone else. Just the opposite.
The very same people who condemn combat vets, or anyone else, for that matter, who object to being hit on by homosexuals/lesbians, will defend the crotch-grabbing flamer's right to hit on them.
Hhhmm, curiouser and curiouser...
First, I am a combat vet. That's why I know that 99% of the talking points are bullshit.
Secondly, I most certainly did not defend someone accosting someone else. Just the opposite.
All you know is what it was like when you were in the military. That's it. Accept the change.
Did you witness that when you deployed?
Oh, yeah! Women could always get knocked up to get out of things, but at least they got reassigned to a non-deploying position. If a guy didn't want to deploy, particularly to a combat zone, he "came out". Big difference was, he had to look for another job. But, hey, from what I've been told here, gays are smarter, more talented, and harder workers expecting to earn much more than their straight counterparts, so finding a civilian job should have been a cinch.
That's a shame. I never saw that in my Infantry unit. Worming out of deployment was seen as a mark of disgrace.
The larger problem is the people that are sucking oxygen in the military for the benies and don't want to deploy. I don't have an answer for that.
On the other hand, I wonder why "coming out" made soldiers "non-deployable", and if so, why they weren't sanctioned under the UCMJ?
Did you witness that when you deployed?
Oh, yeah! Women could always get knocked up to get out of things, but at least they got reassigned to a non-deploying position. If a guy didn't want to deploy, particularly to a combat zone, he "came out". Big difference was, he had to look for another job. But, hey, from what I've been told here, gays are smarter, more talented, and harder workers expecting to earn much more than their straight counterparts, so finding a civilian job should have been a cinch.
That's a shame. I never saw that in my Infantry unit. Worming out of deployment was seen as a mark of disgrace.
The larger problem is the people that are sucking oxygen in the military for the benies and don't want to deploy. I don't have an answer for that.
On the other hand, I wonder why "coming out" made soldiers "non-deployable", and if so, why they weren't sanctioned under the UCMJ?
Oh, yeah! Women could always get knocked up to get out of things, but at least they got reassigned to a non-deploying position. If a guy didn't want to deploy, particularly to a combat zone, he "came out". Big difference was, he had to look for another job. But, hey, from what I've been told here, gays are smarter, more talented, and harder workers expecting to earn much more than their straight counterparts, so finding a civilian job should have been a cinch.
That's a shame. I never saw that in my Infantry unit. Worming out of deployment was seen as a mark of disgrace.
The larger problem is the people that are sucking oxygen in the military for the benies and don't want to deploy. I don't have an answer for that.
On the other hand, I wonder why "coming out" made soldiers "non-deployable", and if so, why they weren't sanctioned under the UCMJ?
In my day, coming out meant you were out of the service, hence "non-deployable". I served before DADT was invented. As I have mentioned before, pretty much everyone knew if a fellow soldier was a bit "off", but as long as that soldier didn't make a big deal about it, kept his personal life to himself, the rest usually didn't either. If he was a decent guy and a good soldier, his fellows protected him from the guys who would do him harm because of who/how he was. They used to "fire" women who got pregnant, too, when I first enlisted. But that changed and they were reassigned. My biggest PITA when I was 1SG was a gal who got herself knocked up during Desert Storm. But that's a different discussion.
Oh, yeah! Women could always get knocked up to get out of things, but at least they got reassigned to a non-deploying position. If a guy didn't want to deploy, particularly to a combat zone, he "came out". Big difference was, he had to look for another job. But, hey, from what I've been told here, gays are smarter, more talented, and harder workers expecting to earn much more than their straight counterparts, so finding a civilian job should have been a cinch.
That's a shame. I never saw that in my Infantry unit. Worming out of deployment was seen as a mark of disgrace.
The larger problem is the people that are sucking oxygen in the military for the benies and don't want to deploy. I don't have an answer for that.
On the other hand, I wonder why "coming out" made soldiers "non-deployable", and if so, why they weren't sanctioned under the UCMJ?
I seen quite a bit of that in the Air Force, on my last deploymeny to Kuwait we had 2 people bitch out of the deployment and 2 others got tagged to take their place, I had put in to separate via force shaping around that time and since my new DOS was less than 3 weeks from our expected return date, technically I was not supposed to go on the deployment and I could have very easily slithered out of it but I didn't feel that was right, to make another fool go in my place, I just sucked up the last months of my service and made extra money, I just don't see how someone who wants to stay in the Military could bitch out of a deployment and look at themselves in the mirror, this is what we are here for after all.
Oh, yeah! Women could always get knocked up to get out of things, but at least they got reassigned to a non-deploying position. If a guy didn't want to deploy, particularly to a combat zone, he "came out". Big difference was, he had to look for another job. But, hey, from what I've been told here, gays are smarter, more talented, and harder workers expecting to earn much more than their straight counterparts, so finding a civilian job should have been a cinch.
That's a shame. I never saw that in my Infantry unit. Worming out of deployment was seen as a mark of disgrace.
The larger problem is the people that are sucking oxygen in the military for the benies and don't want to deploy. I don't have an answer for that.
On the other hand, I wonder why "coming out" made soldiers "non-deployable", and if so, why they weren't sanctioned under the UCMJ?
I seen quite a bit of that in the Air Force, on my last deploymeny to Kuwait we had 2 people bitch out of the deployment and 2 others got tagged to take their place, I had put in to separate via force shaping around that time and since my new DOS was less than 3 weeks from our expected return date, technically I was not supposed to go on the deployment and I could have very easily slithered out of it but I didn't feel that was right, to make another fool go in my place, I just sucked up the last months of my service and made extra money, I just don't see how someone who wants to stay in the Military could bitch out of a deployment and look at themselves in the mirror, this is what we are here for after all.
First gay group forms on U.S. military base
A group of about 75 people made history Feb. 13 at the Great Lakes Naval Station, north of Chicago.
It was the first public meeting of Gay, Lesbian and Supporting Sailors ( GLASS ) , believed to be the first non-academy, general base-sanctioned gay support group on any U.S. base in the world.
The Coast Guard can boast of having the first gay-straight alliance at a service academy, and such academies are located on a base.
The GLASS organizational charter was signed Feb. 10, and already other U.S. bases, including in Japan, have asked to see the bylaws to replicate the group in their areas. GLASS is thus an official Chartered organization of Great Lakes Naval Station.
This means that it is given the same weight and attention as the First Class Association, Chief's Mess, or any other Command-sanctioned organization.
GLASS, the brainchild of 25-year-old Petty Officer Ann Foster, got off to an emotional start at the meeting, held on base. Base Commander Robert Sullivan and other officers, sailors, friends, and representatives of LGBT groups celebrated the historic evening.
Members of the Chicago chapter American Veterans for Equal Rights ( Jim Darby, Patrick Bova, Ed Wosylus and Jean Albright, also of Windy City Times ) , PFLAG Chicago ( Meg and Fred Valentini ) and Links Pride Youth ( Tracy Katz Muhl ) addressed the attendees, who then enjoyed a social hour and celebratory cake for the event. There were other community representatives also at the event.
Several of the GLASS members were also at the Equality Illinois gala Feb. 11, and they spoke about how warm and accepting people at the gala were.
BMC Dena Partain, who has been in the Navy 24 years, is mentor and advisor to GLASS. "At the gala, veterans kept coming up to our table," she said, holding back tears. "They were just so happy we were there. To have that support, I can't even describe it."
Commander Sullivan was proud of the event. "It was great," he said. "It is a good opportunity for those who have not been able to express themselves, to show the military is comprised of a lot of good people. You do your job, and do it well. That is regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation. When we do that, we have a lot better country."
Foster, who is president of GLASS, was inspired to start the group in November after speaking to her roommate, who has a partner and is helping raise her partner's two children, about the lack of resources on base.
"I am overwhelmed," she told the crowd. "A month and a half ago, if you would have told me there would be 75 people, spanning the community, students, officers . I thought if someone was just 18 and just coming out, I wanted them to have resources."
One of the many straight allies, or "supporting sailors" as the group calls them, FCSA Zachary Quirk, explained why he was involved. He said about his friend FCSN Robert Baumgartner: "If my friend is brave enough to stand up, I'm certainly going to stand up with him."
Foster, who has addressed an estimated 4,000 people during open training sessions, said she has received "nothing but support from the start. From our Facebook page, emails, and every single person who has come out to us " she said, holding back tears. "The first thing people ask is, how can they help. I could not have done this without others."
Foster is leaving in two weeks for an assignment in San Diego, and she hopes to bring her experience in Illinois to that location. "We have our charter done and signed, all we have to do is take it to other bases." She said her colleague in GLASS, Vice President Beau Brisco, will be bringing the idea to his assignment, in Virginia.
"Never before in the military has this happened," Foster said, and this is indeed believed to be the first such group sanctioned on base. A U.S. Navy spokesperson said she was not aware of any similar group in the Navy. A Pentagon spokesperson said there is not believed to be another such group in any other branch of the military, but they were checking to verify.
OutServe, an association of actively serving LGBT military personnel, has more than 4,500 members worldwide. It launched near the end of DADT, on July 26, 2010, and therefore started during a time when its members could not be out. OutServe now has more than 42 chapters, many that meet on bases. The ones deployed such as in Afghanistan ( can obviously only meet on base )
OutServe spokeswoman Sue Fulton said while OutServe has chapters on bases in all branches of the military, it operates separate from the command structure, although there have been efforts to have some formal recognition. But such recognition would not happen for such an independent organization.
First gay group forms on U.S. military base - 1326 - Gay Lesbian Bi Trans News - Windy City Times
That's a shame. I never saw that in my Infantry unit. Worming out of deployment was seen as a mark of disgrace.
The larger problem is the people that are sucking oxygen in the military for the benies and don't want to deploy. I don't have an answer for that.
On the other hand, I wonder why "coming out" made soldiers "non-deployable", and if so, why they weren't sanctioned under the UCMJ?
I seen quite a bit of that in the Air Force, on my last deploymeny to Kuwait we had 2 people bitch out of the deployment and 2 others got tagged to take their place, I had put in to separate via force shaping around that time and since my new DOS was less than 3 weeks from our expected return date, technically I was not supposed to go on the deployment and I could have very easily slithered out of it but I didn't feel that was right, to make another fool go in my place, I just sucked up the last months of my service and made extra money, I just don't see how someone who wants to stay in the Military could bitch out of a deployment and look at themselves in the mirror, this is what we are here for after all.
They got out by virtue of bitching? Lord, you command should have grabbed it's nuts.
That's where the problem lies.
First gay group forms on U.S. military base
A group of about 75 people made history Feb. 13 at the Great Lakes Naval Station, north of Chicago.
It was the first public meeting of Gay, Lesbian and Supporting Sailors ( GLASS ) , believed to be the first non-academy, general base-sanctioned gay support group on any U.S. base in the world.
The Coast Guard can boast of having the first gay-straight alliance at a service academy, and such academies are located on a base.
The GLASS organizational charter was signed Feb. 10, and already other U.S. bases, including in Japan, have asked to see the bylaws to replicate the group in their areas. GLASS is thus an official Chartered organization of Great Lakes Naval Station.
This means that it is given the same weight and attention as the First Class Association, Chief's Mess, or any other Command-sanctioned organization.
GLASS, the brainchild of 25-year-old Petty Officer Ann Foster, got off to an emotional start at the meeting, held on base. Base Commander Robert Sullivan and other officers, sailors, friends, and representatives of LGBT groups celebrated the historic evening.
Members of the Chicago chapter American Veterans for Equal Rights ( Jim Darby, Patrick Bova, Ed Wosylus and Jean Albright, also of Windy City Times ) , PFLAG Chicago ( Meg and Fred Valentini ) and Links Pride Youth ( Tracy Katz Muhl ) addressed the attendees, who then enjoyed a social hour and celebratory cake for the event. There were other community representatives also at the event.
Several of the GLASS members were also at the Equality Illinois gala Feb. 11, and they spoke about how warm and accepting people at the gala were.
BMC Dena Partain, who has been in the Navy 24 years, is mentor and advisor to GLASS. "At the gala, veterans kept coming up to our table," she said, holding back tears. "They were just so happy we were there. To have that support, I can't even describe it."
Commander Sullivan was proud of the event. "It was great," he said. "It is a good opportunity for those who have not been able to express themselves, to show the military is comprised of a lot of good people. You do your job, and do it well. That is regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation. When we do that, we have a lot better country."
Foster, who is president of GLASS, was inspired to start the group in November after speaking to her roommate, who has a partner and is helping raise her partner's two children, about the lack of resources on base.
"I am overwhelmed," she told the crowd. "A month and a half ago, if you would have told me there would be 75 people, spanning the community, students, officers . I thought if someone was just 18 and just coming out, I wanted them to have resources."
One of the many straight allies, or "supporting sailors" as the group calls them, FCSA Zachary Quirk, explained why he was involved. He said about his friend FCSN Robert Baumgartner: "If my friend is brave enough to stand up, I'm certainly going to stand up with him."
Foster, who has addressed an estimated 4,000 people during open training sessions, said she has received "nothing but support from the start. From our Facebook page, emails, and every single person who has come out to us " she said, holding back tears. "The first thing people ask is, how can they help. I could not have done this without others."
Foster is leaving in two weeks for an assignment in San Diego, and she hopes to bring her experience in Illinois to that location. "We have our charter done and signed, all we have to do is take it to other bases." She said her colleague in GLASS, Vice President Beau Brisco, will be bringing the idea to his assignment, in Virginia.
"Never before in the military has this happened," Foster said, and this is indeed believed to be the first such group sanctioned on base. A U.S. Navy spokesperson said she was not aware of any similar group in the Navy. A Pentagon spokesperson said there is not believed to be another such group in any other branch of the military, but they were checking to verify.
OutServe, an association of actively serving LGBT military personnel, has more than 4,500 members worldwide. It launched near the end of DADT, on July 26, 2010, and therefore started during a time when its members could not be out. OutServe now has more than 42 chapters, many that meet on bases. The ones deployed such as in Afghanistan ( can obviously only meet on base )
OutServe spokeswoman Sue Fulton said while OutServe has chapters on bases in all branches of the military, it operates separate from the command structure, although there have been efforts to have some formal recognition. But such recognition would not happen for such an independent organization.
First gay group forms on U.S. military base - 1326 - Gay Lesbian Bi Trans News - Windy City Times
Tell me who didn't know the guy second from the left wasn't gay before DADT was over turned?
That's a shame. I never saw that in my Infantry unit. Worming out of deployment was seen as a mark of disgrace.
The larger problem is the people that are sucking oxygen in the military for the benies and don't want to deploy. I don't have an answer for that.
On the other hand, I wonder why "coming out" made soldiers "non-deployable", and if so, why they weren't sanctioned under the UCMJ?
I seen quite a bit of that in the Air Force, on my last deploymeny to Kuwait we had 2 people bitch out of the deployment and 2 others got tagged to take their place, I had put in to separate via force shaping around that time and since my new DOS was less than 3 weeks from our expected return date, technically I was not supposed to go on the deployment and I could have very easily slithered out of it but I didn't feel that was right, to make another fool go in my place, I just sucked up the last months of my service and made extra money, I just don't see how someone who wants to stay in the Military could bitch out of a deployment and look at themselves in the mirror, this is what we are here for after all.
Fortunately, you are one of many and kudos to you. Grown ups will accept the unpleasant bits of life an make good of them. Thanks for your service.
A word to escaping deployments when I was in service...I began my first enlistment while Vietnam was still very much in the news. People were getting dead at a much greater rate there than they are in the ME. That's no excuse to be anything less than a man. We weren't exclusively all-volunteer at that time, either. The rich kids were getting deferments for college while those less fortunate were being sent to the meat grinder. Women were rare enough and had "traditional" jobs in the military.
