Feds start fight with American Patriots in Oregon

[bodecea]

Even though you 'say' you've gone there many times and perhaps even 'grew up' around there, your life in Portland has made you forget what it may be like to walk through two or so feet of snow.

When a person is trying to keep their balance on a slippery surface, they hold their arms _out_. Putting their hands in their pockets is the exact opposite of what a person would do if they're trying to balance.

Hence, anyone using that excuse needs to explain why they're saying something so totally contrary to reality.

funny you fkn loser, you now know how all people slip on ice or walk through snow, probably blow their nose and wipe their ass. Now aren't you the profiling winner for the day!!!!

 

[bodecea]

When a person is trying to keep their balance on a slippery surface, they hold their arms _out_.

agreed, and if their hands are up, sometimes, they may have to come down to keep their balance.

Oh well, if he hadn't run into a snow bank there wouldn't be a balance problem.

 

[JimH52]

When a person is trying to keep their balance on a slippery surface, they hold their arms _out_.

agreed, and if their hands are up, sometimes, they may have to come down to keep their balance.

Oh well, if he hadn't run into a snow bank there wouldn't be a balance problem.

Quit torturing them. They are still trying to figure out how the domestic terrorist may have won. It gives them hope, albeit, a delusional dream.

 

[Dr Grump]

Tell me again the story of our founding fathers VOTING our independence from England...

So are you saying that the only way to get your way is by the barrel of a gun? Most colonists were sick of British rule. Are you saying you're sick of your form of government/bill of rights/constitution?

 

[Preacher]

Tell me again the story of our founding fathers VOTING our independence from England...

So are you saying that the only way to get your way is by the barrel of a gun? Most colonists were sick of British rule. Are you saying you're sick of your form of government/bill of rights/constitution?

You can't tie the GOVERNMENT to the Constitution since the government doesn't follow the constitution any longer. Oh but I am saying that yes I am tired of the government. The government hasn't represented the PEOPLE in a very long time.

 

[Dr Grump]

Tell me again the story of our founding fathers VOTING our independence from England...

So are you saying that the only way to get your way is by the barrel of a gun? Most colonists were sick of British rule. Are you saying you're sick of your form of government/bill of rights/constitution?

You can't tie the GOVERNMENT to the Constitution since the government doesn't follow the constitution any longer. Oh but I am saying that yes I am tired of the government. The government hasn't represented the PEOPLE in a very long time.

Get out and vote and change things. The system is in place.

 

[Preacher]

Tell me again the story of our founding fathers VOTING our independence from England...

So are you saying that the only way to get your way is by the barrel of a gun? Most colonists were sick of British rule. Are you saying you're sick of your form of government/bill of rights/constitution?

You can't tie the GOVERNMENT to the Constitution since the government doesn't follow the constitution any longer. Oh but I am saying that yes I am tired of the government. The government hasn't represented the PEOPLE in a very long time.

Get out and vote and change things. The system is in place.

Yep because voting has worked wonderfully hasn't it.....give me a break. When the people stopped heeding the advice of our founding fathers to change our government by force if need be then it was obvious change was going to have to come by a small minority forcing change....the people have been brainwashed to think they are as free as the constitution says we should be,they will of course think the ones that try to change things are terrorists and or crazy or mentally ill etc. The American people as a whole have Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yep because voting has worked wonderfully hasn't it.....give me a break. When the people stopped heeding the advice of our founding fathers to change our government by force if need be then it was obvious change was going to have to come by a small minority forcing change....the people have been brainwashed to think they are as free as the constitution says we should be,they will of course think the ones that try to change things are terrorists and or crazy or mentally ill etc. The American people as a whole have Stockholm syndrome.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm no American, but the reality of your political system (as opposed to what it is set out to be on the books) is a terrible. Awful. However, you do have the means to change it via the ballot box. I wouldn't whine and whinge about it. Do something about it. Write your congress critters, lobby govt and local, state and govt level. Run for office yourself.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Tell me again the story of our founding fathers VOTING our independence from England...

So are you saying that the only way to get your way is by the barrel of a gun? Most colonists were sick of British rule. Are you saying you're sick of your form of government/bill of rights/constitution?

It's not sick to be tired of the corruption in our current government.

 

[Dr Grump]

It's not sick to be tired of the corruption in our current government.

So do something about it...

....legally...

 

[Skylar]

It's not sick to be tired of the corruption in our current government.

So do something about it...

....legally...

Per the Sovereign Citizen argument, any action they take is legal. As they make up the law. Each citizen can intepret the constitution in any manner they see fit.

Which is why,despite empty lip service about 'state and local control', when the Governor of Oregon, the County Sheriff, the local mayor, the people, and even the local tribes all asked the 'militia' to leave......they told them all to go fuck themselves.

As the only law they recognize is themselves.

 

[mamooth]

Yep because voting has worked wonderfully hasn't it.....give me a break. When the people stopped heeding the advice of our founding fathers to change our government by force if need be then it was obvious change was going to have to come by a small minority forcing change....the people have been brainwashed to think they are as free as the constitution says we should be,they will of course think the ones that try to change things are terrorists and or crazy or mentally ill etc. The American people as a whole have Stockholm syndrome.

Or it could be they're just throwing a tantrum because the gubmint won't give them even more vast amounts of free stuff.

Yep, that's it.

Needless to say, your "I can take all the free stuff I want at gunpoint" POV is not resonating with most Americans.

 

[Preacher]

It's not sick to be tired of the corruption in our current government.

So do something about it...

....legally...

• New Hampshire's constitution[33] guarantees its citizens the right to reform government, in Article 10 of the New Hampshire constitution's Bill of Rights:
  Whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
• The Kentucky constitution[34] also guarantees a right to alter, reform or abolish their government in the Kentucky Bill of Rights:
  All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety, happiness and the protection of property. For the advancement of these ends, they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may deem proper.
• Similar wording is used in Pennsylvania's constitution,[35] under Article 1, Section 2 of the Declaration of Rights:
  All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. For the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think proper.
• Article I, §2 of the Tennessee constitution[36] states:
  That government being instituted for the common benefit, the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
• North Carolina's constitution of November 21, 1789 also contains in its Declaration of Rights:[37]
  3d. That Government ought to be instituted for the common benefit, protection and security of the people; and that the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive to the good and happiness of mankind.
• The Constitution of Texas[38] also contains similar wording in Article 1, Sect 2:
  All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.
  
  State Constitutions say we can do whatever MUST BE DONE

 

[Preacher]

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Part of the declaration of independence. Legal doesn't work. Unless you are EXTREMELY rich.

 

[Old Rocks]

Silly ass, try that with guns, and you face the guns of those that don't agree with you. Which is the vast majority. And the patience of that majority is wearing real thin with the assholes that are trying to create Syria right here in the US. Finicum was treasonous scum, and earned exactly with he got.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Silly ass, try that with guns, and you face the guns of those that don't agree with you. Which is the vast majority. And the patience of that majority is wearing real thin with the assholes that are trying to create Syria right here in the US. Finicum was treasonous scum, and earned exactly with he got.

So you are one who believes the old "might makes right" BS. Lots of folks don't. The people who made this country certainly didn't and the problem with that philosophy is that you need to be very very sure you know might when you see it. I don't think you do.

 

[Katzndogz]

The vast majority didn't think that the American colonies should be independent.

Some of the settlers didn't recognize any government at all.

 

[teddyearp]

Are you saying you're sick of your form of government/bill of rights/constitution?

Personally, I am sick of my government slowly but surely tearing down and ignoring the bill of rights/constitution.

 

[jon_berzerk]

this discussion is getting so intertwined in he-said, it-said that I cant make heads or tails of it anymore.

Agreed. I just want to say though, that the evidence is there for all to see between the FBI video and the pictures taken the next day by The Oregonian to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the truck LaVoy was driving was fired upon well before he drove it off the highway into the snow. The Oregonian pictures:

The spot where Finicum died, Bundy arrested: twisting road, dense forest

There is no way that there would be broken glass on the highway from where that truck ended up unless the OSP or FBI scooped it up and spread it there.

On the other hand, after watching the video a few more times, the OSP and FBI did what they were trained very well to do. And that was to neutralize what they saw as a threat.

LaVoy, R.I.P.

those are interesting pictures

thanks for proving more evidence

 

[EriktheRed]

You really don't know?

What?

Do you really not know there's a video?

Yes, I know there isn't a video. If there's one where is it? Why didn't the Fbi just put it out?

The video was on the national news last night, showing Finicum going for his gun.
The helicopter video of the FBI/OSP confrontation with LaVoy Finicum on 395 north of Burns

son, there is no way you can see that, no fkn way. You just can't it isn't zoomed in enough. So you're in error. Sorry to inform you of that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Take note, folks: this is coming from the guy who initially denied there was a video at all.