Explain the difference between oil and natural gas.. in this

Discussion in 'Politics' started by healthmyths, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. healthmyths
    Online

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,662
    Thanks Received:
    2,311
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +4,798
    Scapegoating Oil Speculators Won’t Ease Pain at the Pump
    By Bloomberg Editors Apr 17, 2012 7:00 PM ET

    It is true that traders, ...But that doesn’t mean they are to blame for higher oil prices. Speculators also operate in the markets for natural gas, where prices have plunged almost 60 percent in the past year because of vast increases in supplies.
    Speculators can push prices up or down, but they can’t repeal the laws of supply and demand.

    Scapegoating Oil Speculators Won

    So WHAT is the difference then between OIL and natural gas as regarding the "laws of supply and demand"???

    Because the editors go on and say:
    "Obama is correct about one point. Republicans are kidding themselves and voters when they argue that unfettered drilling in environmentally sensitive areas will lead to $2.50-a-gallon gasoline. "

    SO again.. why was natural gas prices lowered 60% due to Increased supply but OIL won't adhere to the laws of supply and demand"???
    Someone please explain!!!
     
  2. Mr. H.
    Offline

    Mr. H. Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    44,174
    Thanks Received:
    9,279
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    A warm place with no memory.
    Ratings:
    +15,481
    We have anough natural gas production and storage in this country to satisfy domestic demand.
    We may import some as LNG but it's insignificant.

    Crude production and strorage covers maybe half of our daily demand. The rest are imports- about 11 million BOD.
     
  3. healthmyths
    Online

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,662
    Thanks Received:
    2,311
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +4,798
    That is NOT the answer to the question what is the difference in that Bloomberg said:
    "plunged almost 60 percent in the past year because of vast increases in supplies.
    Speculators can push prices up or down, but they can’t repeal the laws of supply and demand. "
    i.e. CAN'T repeal the laws of supply and demand"!
    THEY STATE THAT clearly .. CAN't REpeal!

    SO why then in the next paragraph do they say:
    "Obama is correct about one point.
    Republicans are kidding themselves and voters when they argue that unfettered drilling in environmentally sensitive areas will lead to $2.50-a-gallon gasoline. "

    "unfettered drilling produces "GREATER supply then the DEMAND" i.e. laws of supply and demand!

    THE USA has 4 trillion barrels of oil that at 50% recoverable means 2 trillion barrels.
    THE USA uses 6 billion barrels a year. THAT means USING our OWN domestic supply and NOT importing 40% the USA has over 333 years!

    SO again.. what is the difference? THE USA has 333 years of oil. Let's produce all 6 billion barrels domestically and DRIVE the production UP the demand stays the same...
    GUESS WHAT gas prices go down!

    AGAIN explain why the law of supply and demand works with gas but not OIL???
     
  4. healthmyths
    Online

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,662
    Thanks Received:
    2,311
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +4,798
    So any of you anti-domestic energy independence people care to explain why natural gas prices plunged 60% which according to Bloomberg editors validates "law of supply and demand"..

    YET the "law of supply and demand" doesn't apply to oil?
    Natural gas is found all over the world as is oil.
    So what made oil different from natural gas and that it doesn't follow the law of supply and demand?

    That is again.. my question.. what is the difference between natural gas and oil when it comes to adherence to the law of supply and demand????
     
  5. Chris
    Offline

    Chris Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,154
    Thanks Received:
    1,959
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Ratings:
    +2,093
    The big oil companies bought up all the small refineries and closed them so they could control the supply.
     
  6. Mr. H.
    Offline

    Mr. H. Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    44,174
    Thanks Received:
    9,279
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    A warm place with no memory.
    Ratings:
    +15,481
    Well excuse my sorry ass for responding.
    Just go with Chris's usual bullshit answer.
    It's more your style.
     
  7. Chris
    Offline

    Chris Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,154
    Thanks Received:
    1,959
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Ratings:
    +2,093
    The largest five oil refiners in the United States (ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, BP, Valero and Royal Dutch Shell) now control over half (56.3%) of domestic oil refinery capacity; the top ten refiners control 83%. Only ten years ago, these top five oil companies only controlled about one-third (34.5%) of domestic refinery capacity; the top ten controlled 55.6%. This dramatic increase in the control of just the top five companies makes it easier for oil companies to manipulate gasoline supplies by intentionally withholding supplies in order to drive up prices. Indeed, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) concluded in March 2001 that oil companies had intentionally withheld supplies of gasoline from the market as a tactic to drive up prices—all as a “profit-maximizing strategy.” A May 2004 U.S. Governmental Accountability Office (GAO) report also found that mergers in the oil industry directly led to higher prices—and this report did not even include the large mergers after the year 2000, such as ChevronTexaco and ConocoPhillips. Yet, just one week after Hurricane Katrina, the FTC approved yet another merger of refinery giants—Valero Energy and Premcor—giving Valero 13% of the national market share. These actions, while costing consumers billions of dollars in overcharges, have not been challenged by the U.S. government.

    Public Citizen Climate and Energy
     
  8. healthmyths
    Online

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,662
    Thanks Received:
    2,311
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +4,798


    Refineries' closings... due EPA ...

    One of the biggest on St. Croix at 350,000 barrels per day
    In January 2012 , Hovensa entered into a consent decree with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and Justice Department in which the company agreed to invest $700 million on pollution controls after a series of chemical releases affected people living downwind from the refinery.
    Hovensa also agreed to pay a $5.4 million penalty for violating the Clean Air Act.

    With the additional modification costs and fines, it was no longer economical to operate the refinery and the decision was made to close it.

    Hovensa Refinery Closing on St. Croix

    In addition the EPA/Obama administration HAS done the following to reduce production on federal lands...
    1) Production on Federal Leases is DOWN!
    While President Obama has been touting in recent days that his administration is promoting oil drilling in the United States, oil production on federally owned lands has in fact declined by 17,000 barrels per day since he took office in 2009.

    Oil Production on Federal Lands Has Declined Under Obama | CNSNews.com

    In a clear signal that the Obama administration is shifting the government's approach to energy exploration on public lands, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar yesterday canceled oil and gas leases on 77 parcels of federal land after opponents said the drilling would blight Utah's scenic southeastern corner.

    Salazar's decision -- which reverses the Bush administration's move to allow drilling on about 130,000 acres near pristine areas such as Nine Mile Canyon, Arches National Park and Dinosaur National Monument -- is one of a series of steps that the new administration and congressional Democrats are planning to reshape federal regulation of drilling, mining, lumbering and other resource-tapping activities.
    Salazar Voids Drilling Leases On Public Lands in Utah


    This St. Croix refinery could NO LONGER AFFORD primarily due to $700 million more in pollution controls needed to meet EPA!!!
     
  9. healthmyths
    Online

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,662
    Thanks Received:
    2,311
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +4,798
    I know this may be too simple for some of you to comprehend but..

    According to the U.S. Department of Energy, here's an approximation of
    where each dollar you spend on gas goes:
    (EIA), however, which issues the “Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government” the average cost at the pump for a gallon of gasoline is broken down as follows:

    * 74% - Cost of the crude oil
    * 11% - Taxes
    * 10% - Refining costs
    * 5% - Distribution and marketing
    Refinery Oil Prices - Cost To Refine Oil Into Gasoline | What It Costs

    SO explain to me again... how the raw material "crude oil" which makes up 3/4ths the cost of gas,
    IS NOT the MAJOR contributory BUT according to you "refining" which makes up less then 10%
    IS???
     
  10. healthmyths
    Online

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,662
    Thanks Received:
    2,311
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +4,798
    I really don't understand some of you people and your comprehension of simple law of supply and demand!
    If refineries could make more money by charging more then 10% of the cost of a gallon wouldn't you think they would???
    Yet the government acknowledges the cost of making a gallon of gas is only 10%!

    So again.. WHERE is the fallacy in Bloomberg stating natural gas abides by the law of supply and demand and prices dropped 60%???
    Why is that NOT applicable though to oil which the crude price makes up 74% of the cost of gas?
    Find more oil. Increase production. Supply increases. Demand stays the same. prices go down!
    SIMPLE!
     

Share This Page