Ending Medicare Ryan-style Doesn't Save Any Money

[8537]

If The Dems are lucky, Mitt won't flip flop on his strong support of the Ryan budget.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Any healthcare 'reform' that moves more of your healthcare provision towards the hands of for profit companies whose business model is designed around providing the least amount of benefits possible for the most cost possible is simply foolish.

 

[peach174]

Perhaps you're missing the point. So let me help you by stating it again (although it was already made explicitly): there is no expectation or hope that voucherizing Medicare will lead to lower per capita spending.

Pushing someone out of Medicare (3.1% growth per enrollee) and giving them a coupon for a private insurance plan (5% growth per enrollee) doesn't get long-term health spending under control. Assuming that the same number of older folks is insured, which I suppose isn't a safe assumption--Ryan may well leave some with no insurance at all.

All it succeeds in doing is shifting costs onto the backs of seniors, it doen't slow spending growth.



Better than? The Ryan budget retrains the ACA's cuts.

It's kind of hard to score savings for a plan using a 10-year budget window when you propose a plan that ostensibly doesn't take effect fo 10 years. Unless you stand on the shoulders of giants and claim Obama's cuts as your own.

You are quoting the Dems lies.
The voucher is for Medicare or private Insurance. They would have a choice.
You are not adding the rest of their plans that would bring the cost of Health Care down.
That is the basic part. Bring down the cost of health care.
The Dems plan does not do that at all.
The Dems plan is capping the payment to Doctor's and the Doctors can not afford that.

Seriously?

So if the 'new' Ryan plan is voluntary, and choosing the voucher would represent a huge out of pocket cost for the Medicare patient over simply staying in the current plan,

1. what idiot is going to choose the voucher?

2. what is the savings if no one wants the voucher, but just takes Medicare as is?

That is not what I said.
The voucher is for all Seniors.
They have a choice to use the voucher for a Medicare Insurance plan or a Private Health Care Plan.

 

[healthmyths]

Apparently Romney has decided that he can't win a referendum on Obama and thus it's time to more explicitly hitch his wagon to the GOP's radical agenda to revive his campaign.

So it's worth taking a moment this morning to remember that his new Number Two's plot to voucherize Medicare and shift costs onto the backs of future seniors doesn't save any money. It's ideological drivel that doesn't actually solve any problems that haven't already been solved. Why not? Because per enrollee spending growth in the public health insurance programs has already fallen.

Medicare and Medicaid Spending Trends and the Deficit Debate | NEJM

With the per-enrollee spending growth in Medicare and Medicaid less than that in private insurance and close to the growth in GDP per capita, it's hard to argue that spending on either program, on a per-enrollee basis, is “out of control.” Rather, per-enrollee growth in both programs is near the target often advocated in debt-reduction proposals. Total spending growth, which also includes growth in enrollment, is faster than the economy's growth. But policies that are appropriate when the problem is per-capita spending growth differ from those that make sense when enrollment growth is such an important cost driver. Policy options such as premium support and block grants that entail indexing growth rates to some measure of economic growth will have a hard time achieving lower per-enrollee spending growth than is currently projected. CBO estimates suggest that both approaches may achieve savings for the federal government, but such savings shift Medicare costs onto existing enrollees and, in the case of Medicaid, onto the states as well.3

Rather than pursuing major restructuring of either program, then, we should continue adopting available strategies to contain costs within the programs' current structure, especially since many of those implemented in the past decade seem to be working, and many on the horizon appear promising.

I'm sure Ryan and his sidekick Mittens will defend their scheme by saying it's necessary. Unfortunately for them, that's demonstrably false. The alleged goals of their plan have already been achieved. Dismantling Medicare, throwing seniors into the private insurance market, and shifting costs back onto seniors isn't necessary for fiscal reasons, it's purely ideological.

I suspect we'll hear more about the folly of their ideological agenda in the coming weeks.

What do you do for a living? The reason I ask is because my living comes from helping providers get paid by Medicare so unless you have a comparable experience and knowledge base you are not as QUALIFIED as I am!

Therefore.. you tell me from your naive, amateur knowledge..
Are you in favor of continuing to pay Medicare for services that are in some NOT all marked up by the health care provider by almost 6,000%?

Case in point..
YOU evidently don't have access as I have access to a database of what Medicare paid 6,000+ hospitals for services like this hospital in Tampa.

Univ. Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 times claims to do this service:
CAT scan - no contrast at $2,635 each claim.
It cost the hospital $43 to perform the service!
A 6,127.91% markup!

Why does Medicare WILLINGLY accept this GROSS overcharging?

Again, you being naive and obviously uninformed ... do some research before you make ANY comments about Medicare.. research that benign and benevolent ACT passed by Congress in 1986 known as EMTALA... then come back and defend Medicare's status quo!

Ryan's plan like any SANE rational logical person takes into consideration a simple concept:
COMPOUND INTEREST!

Again I'll go real slow for you...
Ryan et.al. want PEOPLE to control their destinies NOT the government!
And so if at age 25 entering the workforce instead of paying based on $40,000/year salary
the government to use the money and then payback at age 65.. the individual had the ownership of where that $250,000 in SS/Medicare payments the employer!! and employee paid in is invested.
I dare you to use this calculator of compound interest!
Simple savings calculator -- Bankrate.com

At 3% 40 years depositing $500/month equals $545,369.02 at age 65!

Out of which the employee now at 5% withdrawal,
gets as much as current SS/Medicare value!

Difference?
IT IS THE EMPLOYEE's MONEY to do with .. spend on insurance, what ever but NOT the government's right!

At 6% which is what the equities market has appreciated with dividends and appreciation for 40 years would provide:$1,048,122!

Why are people like YOU so against the ordinary worker accumulating a million dollars?
What gives you the right to control the ordinary worker's financial destiny??

 

[Trajan]

If The Dems are lucky, Mitt won't flip flop on his strong support of the Ryan budget.

and the Democratic budget, care to share? I'll give you 4 years back, have at it...

 

[8537]

If The Dems are lucky, Mitt won't flip flop on his strong support of the Ryan budget.

and the Democratic budget, care to share? I'll give you 4 years back, have at it...

Hint: Obama has never offered a budget that ends Medicare, cuts taxes for the wealthiest Americans and increases them for middle class Americans.

Ryan has offered such a budget and Romney has endorsed it.

 

[healthmyths]

Adding up the annual returns from 1975 through 2010, as shown in the Dow Jones Industrial average yearly returns chart, and dividing the result by 36, the number of years covered, you will learn that the Dow appreciated by an average of 9.28 percent annually.

Read more: The Average Stock Market Appreciation Per Year | eHow.com The Average Stock Market Appreciation Per Year | eHow.com

Employer/employee starting in 1975 putting the $500/month paid for SS/Medicare would appreciate by 2010 (IN SPITE of the UPs and DOWNs of that gamble called the stock market): $2,358,715!

Think of it! NO government DEBT because they wouldn't own this $2.3 million!
NO Medicare payments! NO SS payments!
AND if the employee after 10 years of retirement has $300,000 left.. GUESS WHAT !!
NEST egg for heirs... college education for heirs!
NO more STUDENT LOANS! NO more Borrowing to pay for college for heirs!

NO there are just too many DOWNSIDES to continue letting the Government grossly mismanaged our lives and more UPSIDES to let us control our destinies!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

People paying for stuff makes them aware of what stuff costs, it's just human nature

 

[whitehall]

Thanks to democrats Medicare has been shifted to the backs of this generation and it's broke. What do democrats plan to do? Tack a gigantic 3,000 page law on the backs of Americans and hire a little army of IRS agents to make sure we comply or face confiscation of our property.

 

[Trajan]

If The Dems are lucky, Mitt won't flip flop on his strong support of the Ryan budget.

and the Democratic budget, care to share? I'll give you 4 years back, have at it...

Hint: Obama has never offered a budget that ends Medicare, cuts taxes for the wealthiest Americans and increases them for middle class Americans.

Ryan has offered such a budget and Romney has endorsed it.

don't try that shit on me, you always seem to blow smoke when you cannot answer a question, just don't respond if you don't have an answer or man up and as in, I cannot point to a Democratic budget.

pointing out what you think in a budget, a gop budget is a non starter.


hint- I asked you for a democratic budget, do you have one?yes, or no.

Hint;


-allowing taxs to go up, is an INCREASE......for anyone

-allowing them to continue, is NOT a DECREASE...for anyonoe


see how that works?

 

[auditor0007]

Dem's policy is future Seniors will not be able to see any Doctors or to be able to go to an emergency room.No health care at all.
Medicare is going broke and Dem's policy is rob Medicare of 500 billion in order to get 30 million people into their not affordable at all Health Care Plan.

You realize that Seniors do pay for Medicare as it is every month.
The voucher pays for quite a bit of that and future seniors will have a choice whether they want a private insurance or Medicare insurance.
I see no plan at all from the Dem's in how to keep Medicare going for the future generations of the country.
Something has to be done in order to keep Medicare and Dem's have done nothing at all about it.

There is only one logical answer and that is to raise the retirement age. We started to do this with SS, but it needs to go higher, and it needs to include Medicare. People are living much longer than these programs were designed to support people for, so we need to shorten that time up a bit and force people to work longer or pay for their own early retirement. The retirement age needs to be upped to 70 or 71 for both programs. As for the argument that some people just can't work past 65 because of physical disabilities, well those people can apply for disability just as they do now at an earlier age.

The difference in a plan such as Ryan's and one where we raise the retirement age is that under Ryan's plan, everyone must fund a substantial portion of their own healthcare spending. If costs rise, they will not be able to afford it being on fixed incomes, so they will be left without any coverage. Insurance companies don't give partial coverage if you can only pay part of the bill. By raising the retirement age, we force people to work a little longer and pay more, but all those payments are made at a time when most people actually can still work, then when they do retire fully, they can be covered 100% without having to worry about things over their final ten or so years. The big problem is getting anyone to do anything because nobody wants to think about working longer or having to pay more, but the fact is that these programs were not designed to cover people for 15 years. When these programs were put in place, most people died a few years after retirement. Some even died before they could collect. Today, life expectancy is ten years greater than it was in the 60's.

 

[Greenbeard]

I do. Medicare is in trouble and will fail soon unless we continue to throw bad money after good. The cost growth is NOT in line with acceptable growth. The growth that exists is very much like the growth of Social Security. It is smoke and mirrors, propped up by deficit spending.

Medicare cost growth is not in a bad place, though more can be (and is being) done. Its overall spending growth is going up faster than per enrollee growth because more and more people are aging into it.

Throwing seniors off it or diverting them to more expensive Anthem plans whose per enrollee costs are growing faster than Medicare is not an acceptable solution to growing Medicare enrollment. It doesn't save any money, indeed it ends up costing more but hides the additional costs by putting them on the backs of seniors. Ryan hasn't actually come up with any ideas for slowing cost growth itself, he's just finding creative ways to get the costs off the books.

Is it worth ending Medicare for that? I imagine the average American won't think so.

 

[whitehall]

It didn't take long for the lefties to come out with anti-Ryan stuff. You almost gotta admire the (ironic?) tax exempt left wing propaganda organizations like Media Matters and American Bridge. You can bet your ass-ets that there is a little army of sleazy tax exempt lawyers and investigators going through every day of Ryan's life as we speak.

 

[blackhawk]

Well if you don't like the plan put out by Ryan and the House Republicans let's discuss the budget plan put fourth by the Senate Democrats and Senate majority leader Harry Reid......... Well that's right we don't have one 1200 plus freaking days and still waiting,

 

[Jroc]

The Roadmap secures Medicare for current beneficiaries, while making common-sense reforms to save this critical program.

•It preserves the existing Medicare program for those currently enrolled or becoming eligible in the next 10 years (those 55 and older today) - So Americans can receive the benefits they planned for throughout their working lives. For those currently under 55 – as they become Medicare-eligible – it creates a Medicare payment, initially averaging $11,000, to be used to purchase a Medicare certified plan. The payment is adjusted to reflect medical inflation, and pegged to income, with low-income individuals receiving greater support. The plan also provides risk adjustment, so those with greater medical needs receive a higher payment.
•The proposal also fully funds Medical Savings Accounts [MSAs] for low-income beneficiaries, while continuing to allow all beneficiaries, regardless of income, to set up tax-free MSAs.
•Based on consultation with the Office of the Actuary of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and using Congressional Budget Office [CBO] these reforms will make Medicare permanently solvent
•Modernizes Medicaid and strengthens the health care safety net by reforming high-risk pools, giving States maximum flexibility to tailor Medicaid programs to the specific needs of their populations. Allows Medicaid recipients to take part in the same variety of options and high-quality care available to everyone through the tax credit option.

Medicare/Medicaid | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

 

[8537]

Adding up the annual returns from 1975 through 2010, as shown in the Dow Jones Industrial average yearly returns chart, and dividing the result by 36, the number of years covered, you will learn that the Dow appreciated by an average of 9.28 percent annually.
!

Wait what?!?!?

The DJIA was about 825 in 1975.

 

[8537]

825 x (1.0928)^35

Was the DJIA at 18,500 in 2010?

 

[Katzndogz]

Here's Paul Ryan demolishing obama.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPxMZ1WdINs]Paul Ryan: Hiding Spending Doesn't Reduce Spending - YouTube[/ame]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dems are reduced to fear and loathing

 

[NYcarbineer]

Adding up the annual returns from 1975 through 2010, as shown in the Dow Jones Industrial average yearly returns chart, and dividing the result by 36, the number of years covered, you will learn that the Dow appreciated by an average of 9.28 percent annually.

Read more: The Average Stock Market Appreciation Per Year | eHow.com The Average Stock Market Appreciation Per Year | eHow.com

Employer/employee starting in 1975 putting the $500/month paid for SS/Medicare would appreciate by 2010 (IN SPITE of the UPs and DOWNs of that gamble called the stock market): $2,358,715!

Think of it! NO government DEBT because they wouldn't own this $2.3 million!
NO Medicare payments! NO SS payments!
AND if the employee after 10 years of retirement has $300,000 left.. GUESS WHAT !!
NEST egg for heirs... college education for heirs!
NO more STUDENT LOANS! NO more Borrowing to pay for college for heirs!

NO there are just too many DOWNSIDES to continue letting the Government grossly mismanaged our lives and more UPSIDES to let us control our destinies!

You are aware that in order to actually spend the money put into the stock market day after day,

there would be constant selling of stocks day after day, do you?