Ending Medicare Ryan-style Doesn't Save Any Money

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Greenbeard, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Greenbeard
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    Greenbeard Gold Member

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    Apparently Romney has decided that he can't win a referendum on Obama and thus it's time to more explicitly hitch his wagon to the GOP's radical agenda to revive his campaign.

    So it's worth taking a moment this morning to remember that his new Number Two's plot to voucherize Medicare and shift costs onto the backs of future seniors doesn't save any money. It's ideological drivel that doesn't actually solve any problems that haven't already been solved. Why not? Because per enrollee spending growth in the public health insurance programs has already fallen.

    Medicare and Medicaid Spending Trends and the Deficit Debate | NEJM
    I'm sure Ryan and his sidekick Mittens will defend their scheme by saying it's necessary. Unfortunately for them, that's demonstrably false. The alleged goals of their plan have already been achieved. Dismantling Medicare, throwing seniors into the private insurance market, and shifting costs back onto seniors isn't necessary for fiscal reasons, it's purely ideological.

    I suspect we'll hear more about the folly of their ideological agenda in the coming weeks.
     
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  2. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    well, if they're honest about what the GOP's mancrush really wants, then it will make for an interesting discussion.

    if they aren't, it'll just be another rightwingnut shill's dream.
     
  3. Darkwind
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    Darkwind Gold Member

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    Too funny. Your own link provides backing for the Ryan plan, while convienently leaving out the fact that those over the age of 55 will not have to worry about this voucher system, while those under will be given a choice.

    It is a much better plan than simply gutting medicare to the tune of 500 billion dollars for a pie in the sky healthcare plan that has done nothing more than increase costs and stifle business expansion.

    Yeah, real good argument there skippy.
     
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  4. peach174
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    peach174 Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Dem's policy is future Seniors will not be able to see any Doctors or to be able to go to an emergency room.No health care at all.
    Medicare is going broke and Dem's policy is rob Medicare of 500 billion in order to get 30 million people into their not affordable at all Health Care Plan.

    You realize that Seniors do pay for Medicare as it is every month.
    The voucher pays for quite a bit of that and future seniors will have a choice whether they want a private insurance or Medicare insurance.
    I see no plan at all from the Dem's in how to keep Medicare going for the future generations of the country.
    Something has to be done in order to keep Medicare and Dem's have done nothing at all about it.
     
  5. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    "will not have to worry about this voucher system"...

    In other words, the voucher system is worth worrying about, but only future seniors will have to worry about it.
     
  6. Greenbeard
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    Greenbeard Gold Member

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    Perhaps you're missing the point. So let me help you by stating it again (although it was already made explicitly): there is no expectation or hope that voucherizing Medicare will lead to lower per capita spending.

    Pushing someone out of Medicare (3.1% growth per enrollee) and giving them a coupon for a private insurance plan (5% growth per enrollee) doesn't get long-term health spending under control. Assuming that the same number of older folks is insured, which I suppose isn't a safe assumption--Ryan may well leave some with no insurance at all.

    All it succeeds in doing is shifting costs onto the backs of seniors, it doen't slow spending growth.

    Better than? The Ryan budget retains the ACA's cuts.

    It's kind of hard to score savings for a plan using a 10-year budget window when you propose a plan that ostensibly doesn't take effect for 10 years. Unless you stand on the shoulders of giants and claim Obama's cuts as your own.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  7. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    Yes it is purely ideological. Russia has their Marxists, America has their Marketists. They are one and the same.

    Health care does not fit, and will never fit into a 'free market' model.

    The whole basis of a 'free market' is the buyer has leverage, i.e. he/she can take his/her business elsewhere. That works perfectly fine when the stakes are 'things' (cars or TV sets etc). But a person's health is not a 'thing', and the consumer's stake is their very life. An unhappy consumer can go buys a different car or TV. If a person has a life threatening illness and is denied coverage for treatment, WHAT leverage does that person have...take their business elsewhere IN ANOTHER LIFE?
     
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  8. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    what is it that you think he really wants?
     
  9. Trajan
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    Trajan conscientia mille testes

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    'radical agenda', 'ideological agenda', yup, got the buzz words going early and you've got some gall, really. nothing obama does or did is either of those right? :rolleyes:

    the CLASS act, the forward pay, spend later huge cash cow has gone away, they pulled the plug on it becasue the enrollment cratered and I have asked you, oh, several times at least, what will replace it? not a word.


    the revenue neutral mantra was and is, exposed as BS. Radical agenda indeed.


    The Ryan-Wyden reform plan should be surfaced again and a debate had on its finer points, it wasn't perfect but their premium support plan has merit and they should go back at it together.




    so how many iterations of throwing grandma grandpa off the cliff can you manufacture in 85 days, a lot I bet, have at it.
     
  10. peach174
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    peach174 Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    You are quoting the Dems lies.
    The voucher is for Medicare or private Insurance. They would have a choice.
    You are not adding the rest of their plans that would bring the cost of Health Care down.
    That is the basic part. Bring down the cost of health care.
    The Dems plan does not do that at all.
    The Dems plan is capping the payment to Doctor's and the Doctors can not afford that.
     

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