Education and Separation of Church

[AllieBaba]

It's not about education, it's about indoctrination.

Due to the "Global economy", our country has to compete. We don't have a minute of time to waste in mysticism and the occult. We need to concentrate on the "real" world.

Here's a novel idea.... how about you concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise. In other words, why not mind your own damned business about what other people do or do not believe.

What is it with lefties and their obsessive need to control the thoughts and beliefs of other people? I wonder if they realize just how pathetically insecure it looks to other people? I wonder also why they can't understand the principles on which this nation was founded.

once again you show both your ignorance and your unmitigated bias


the story was about CHRISTIANS using THEIR INFLUENCE and POSITION to FORCE ALL SCHOOL CHILDREN in America to be INDOCTRINATED with right wing christian REVISIONIST history.


obviously this is something you supprt.

however those of us who believe in separation of church and state
and free speech
and religious freedom
are appalled at this OBVIOUS ACT of indoctrination and revisionist history


"What is it with lefties and their obsessive need to control the thoughts and beliefs of other people?"

excuse me, my precious little monkey brain, but the STORY and the POINT are about CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS CONTROLLING THE THOUGHTS OF OTHERS! and NOT "lefties".

no doubt you find this much less troubling
i'm sure you subscribe to the theory that indoctrination is ONLY bad when liberals do it!

"how about you concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise."


do you mean..."shut up!"?

isn't it quite possible that attempts by deranged right wing conservative christians
tp indoctrinate ALL the school children of America with revisionist history IS important to him?

who do you think you are telling him what to think about?

are you queen of the universe?

why don't YOU concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise?


hmmmm?

Instead of mindless blathering and rhetoric, why don't you provide some evidence of Christians in government trying to force their religion on the people?

 

[FireGod]

Here's a novel idea.... how about you concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise. In other words, why not mind your own damned business about what other people do or do not believe.

What is it with lefties and their obsessive need to control the thoughts and beliefs of other people? I wonder if they realize just how pathetically insecure it looks to other people? I wonder also why they can't understand the principles on which this nation was founded.

once again you show both your ignorance and your unmitigated bias


the story was about CHRISTIANS using THEIR INFLUENCE and POSITION to FORCE ALL SCHOOL CHILDREN in America to be INDOCTRINATED with right wing christian REVISIONIST history.


obviously this is something you supprt.

however those of us who believe in separation of church and state
and free speech
and religious freedom
are appalled at this OBVIOUS ACT of indoctrination and revisionist history


"What is it with lefties and their obsessive need to control the thoughts and beliefs of other people?"

excuse me, my precious little monkey brain, but the STORY and the POINT are about CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS CONTROLLING THE THOUGHTS OF OTHERS! and NOT "lefties".

no doubt you find this much less troubling
i'm sure you subscribe to the theory that indoctrination is ONLY bad when liberals do it!

"how about you concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise."


do you mean..."shut up!"?

isn't it quite possible that attempts by deranged right wing conservative christians
tp indoctrinate ALL the school children of America with revisionist history IS important to him?

who do you think you are telling him what to think about?

are you queen of the universe?

why don't YOU concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise?


hmmmm?

Instead of mindless blathering and rhetoric, why don't you provide some evidence of Christians in government trying to force their religion on the people?

From the OP

"This year’s social-studies review has drawn the most attention for the battles over what names should be included in the roll call of history. But while ignoring Kennedy and upgrading Gingrich are significant moves, something more fundamental is on the agenda. The one thing that underlies the entire program of the nation’s Christian conservative activists is, naturally, religion. But it isn’t merely the case that their Christian orientation shapes their opinions on gay marriage, abortion and government spending. More elementally, they hold that the United States was founded by devout Christians and according to biblical precepts. This belief provides what they consider not only a theological but also, ultimately, a judicial grounding to their positions on social questions. When they proclaim that the United States is a “Christian nation,” they are not referring to the percentage of the population that ticks a certain box in a survey or census but to the country’s roots and the intent of the founders."

Magazine Preview - How Christian Were the Founders? - NYTimes.com

Proven wrong in this thread.

 

[AllieBaba]

Er..that proves nothing that I can see. When I say proof, I mean concrete evidence that Christians are attempting to force their religion on anyone.

 

[FireGod]

Er..that proves nothing that I can see. When I say proof, I mean concrete evidence that Christians are attempting to force their religion on anyone.

You mean like intelligent design?

The passes handed out that this country is a Christian nation? or better yet founded on Christian principals? or maybe the line in the pledge of allegiance one nation under god that every student is required to repeat EVERY SCHOOL DAY. Nope no forcing going on there.

 

[rdean]

Er..that proves nothing that I can see. When I say proof, I mean concrete evidence that Christians are attempting to force their religion on anyone.

Are you taking about the Scopes Monkey Trial from 1925 or what's recently been going on in Texas? Or perhaps something in between like the Dover debacle with a Bush appointed judge, or California Science Center being sued for not showing films on "mystical creation".

You want links? Don't be so damn lazy.

If the Christians weren't trying to force their religion on children in public schools, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Let them take their children to "Sunday school", or send them to Catholic School, even though the Catholics also teach evolution. Go to a private school, but for heavens sakes, keep mysticism out of public school.

This isn't 1882. The science of evolution is ENORMOUS. Evolution is also corroborated by many other fields of science. It just can't be denied. Not any more. There is simply too much evidence.

And please people, learn the definition of "scientific theory". It's not "just a guess".

 

[JakeStarkey]

Er..that proves nothing that I can see. When I say proof, I mean concrete evidence that Christians are attempting to force their religion on anyone.

Are you taking about the Scopes Monkey Trial from 1925 or what's recently been going on in Texas? Or perhaps something in between like the Dover debacle with a Bush appointed judge, or California Science Center being sued for not showing films on "mystical creation".

You want links? Don't be so damn lazy.

If the Christians weren't trying to force their religion on children in public schools, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Let them take their children to "Sunday school", or send them to Catholic School, even though the Catholics also teach evolution. Go to a private school, but for heavens sakes, keep mysticism out of public school.

This isn't 1882. The science of evolution is ENORMOUS. Evolution is also corroborated by many other fields of science. It just can't be denied. Not any more. There is simply too much evidence.

And please people, learn the definition of "scientific theory". It's not "just a guess".

I think AllieBaba's questions have been adequately addressed, so let's move on.

 

[rikules]

Er..that proves nothing that I can see. When I say proof, I mean concrete evidence that Christians are attempting to force their religion on anyone.

I can do that.

I can provide TONS of examples and evidence

starting from 30 years ago!

from the 700 club
the ACLJ
the Christian Coalition
the DOMINIONISTS
focus on the family
school boards taken over by R.W. conservative christians
fox news
glenn beck
hannity
oreilly
coulter
and even recent events at the air force academy

and hundreds of lesser known conservative/christian spinmeisters

with quotes tantamount to

"America IS a christian nation" so therefore "our LAWS MUST come from the bible"

but why waste my time....

let's face it....no matter how much evidence I provide you are simply going to close your eyes and your mind and deny it...

I stand by my statement based upon 30 years or following the antics of conservative/r.w. christians.

The fact that, even though this whole thread is about texas christians using their power and influence to revise history text books, you continue to deny the obvious, is enough for me to not bother wasting my time with you.

the christian right is actively trying to LITIGATE America as a christian nation and FORCE its' beliefs on MY CHILDREN.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

Here's a novel idea.... how about you concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise. In other words, why not mind your own damned business about what other people do or do not believe.

What is it with lefties and their obsessive need to control the thoughts and beliefs of other people? I wonder if they realize just how pathetically insecure it looks to other people? I wonder also why they can't understand the principles on which this nation was founded.

When 19 alienated men can fly a plane into a building hoping the 72 virgins are hot, killing 3000 innocent people, I think all people need to take religious ideas seriously. And if you think it is only Islam then you need to think some more.

Beautifully said
Negativity motivates, if you don't believe so, then you know nothing about boot camp.
Religion sets deep within the human condition, whether your belief is in a (G)god(ess) or lack of any ( or many). Combine political pressures, and economic conditions, and daily life with dogma, and you have a stew, ripe for conflict. Religion does matter that is why the "state" needs to leave well enough alone.

Parents teach your children, If you actually talk to them, they will tell you what they think.
I do not think it is the schools job, nor should it be entered into the governments of whom the public education system falls. There are private schools.

 

[rdean]

Here's a novel idea.... how about you concentrate on what is important to you and allow others to do likewise. In other words, why not mind your own damned business about what other people do or do not believe.

What is it with lefties and their obsessive need to control the thoughts and beliefs of other people? I wonder if they realize just how pathetically insecure it looks to other people? I wonder also why they can't understand the principles on which this nation was founded.

When 19 alienated men can fly a plane into a building hoping the 72 virgins are hot, killing 3000 innocent people, I think all people need to take religious ideas seriously. And if you think it is only Islam then you need to think some more.

Beautifully said
Negativity motivates, if you don't believe so, then you know nothing about boot camp.
Religion sets deep within the human condition, whether your belief is in a (G)god(ess) or lack of any ( or many). Combine political pressures, and economic conditions, and daily life with dogma, and you have a stew, ripe for conflict. Religion does matter that is why the "state" needs to leave well enough alone.

Parents teach your children, If you actually talk to them, they will tell you what they think.
I do not think it is the schools job, nor should it be entered into the governments of whom the public education system falls. There are private schools.

Referring to Bin Laden, I believe that Religion was just the "tool" used by dangerous and evil men to indoctrinate young minds that, through manipulation, became tools for evil deeds.

While I have no occult beliefs myself, history is full of extremists who are able to sway huge numbers of people to do evil. Stalin and Mao were both anti religion and they were able to convince their countrymen to kill tens of millions of neighbors. People killing people they knew.

I believe we have to keep an eye out for these people and be careful to not concentrate on just the religious.

 

[AllieBaba]

Er..that proves nothing that I can see. When I say proof, I mean concrete evidence that Christians are attempting to force their religion on anyone.

You mean like intelligent design?

The passes handed out that this country is a Christian nation? or better yet founded on Christian principals? or maybe the line in the pledge of allegiance one nation under god that every student is required to repeat EVERY SCHOOL DAY. Nope no forcing going on there.

The country is a Christian nation, when one looks at the numbers, and is founded on Christian principals, obviously. The pledge of allegience isn't something we're required by law to recite, btw.
Moron.

Still waiting for EVIDENCE that Christians in gov't are forcing religion upon anyone.

 

[FireGod]

Er..that proves nothing that I can see. When I say proof, I mean concrete evidence that Christians are attempting to force their religion on anyone.

You mean like intelligent design?

The passes handed out that this country is a Christian nation? or better yet founded on Christian principals? or maybe the line in the pledge of allegiance one nation under god that every student is required to repeat EVERY SCHOOL DAY. Nope no forcing going on there.

The country is a Christian nation, when one looks at the numbers, and is founded on Christian principals, obviously. The pledge of allegience isn't something we're required by law to recite, btw.
Moron.

Still waiting for EVIDENCE that Christians in gov't are forcing religion upon anyone.

Umm no just because Christians are the majority does not mean the nation is Christian nor is there an official religion of the nation,

Name one principle that is exclusively Christian that the US is founded on.

When was the last time you were in a public school for the morning announcements? While there may be no "legal" requirement the peer pressure is incredible on young minds tantamount to brain washing. Take your beliefs and imagine if it was "one nation under Zeus".

 

[JakeStarkey]

And our Treaty of Tripoli 1797 clearly states that the U.S. is not to be considered to be a Christian nation.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

[Name one principle that is exclusively Christian that the US is founded on.

The Christian principals I believe they speak of, can only be applied to (some) individuals, not our government, and certainly not our nation.

There is a great flaw in the perception.

The "golden rule" ..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" can be recited almost verbatim from the Koran. All major religions have the same outward respect of the individual. Satanism says do what thou wilt, but do no harm.
Harm to others is bad karma for the Hindu, spiritual poison for the Buddhist.
Likewise the secular humanist would not harm because the bad rumors, and making enemies to hurt his reputation.

“Christian” and “moralist” are not interchangeable. Clearly a person may be one, and not the other, take that however you will.

Why must we separate ourselves into labels, only to prove ourselves less than what we are?

 

[FireGod]

[Name one principle that is exclusively Christian that the US is founded on.

The Christian principals I believe they speak of, can only be applied to (some) individuals, not our government, and certainly not our nation.

There is a great flaw in the perception.

The "golden rule" ..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" can be recited almost verbatim from the Koran. All major religions have the same outward respect of the individual. Satanism says do what thou wilt, but do no harm.
Harm to others is bad karma for the Hindu, spiritual poison for the Buddhist.
Likewise the secular humanist would not harm because the bad rumors, and making enemies to hurt his reputation.

“Christian” and “moralist” are not interchangeable. Clearly a person may be one, and not the other, take that however you will.

Why must we separate ourselves into labels, only to prove ourselves less than what we are?

Hence AllieBaba's error in logic.

I am thinking that you point on satanism is also wrong as most of my experience with it has not been that generous (please note that I did say most and not all).