'don't Impose Your Values' Argument Is Bigotry In Disguise

[MissileMan]

See, here's one of the biggest misconceptions of Christianity. God doesn't send you to Hell. You're Hellbound from the moment you can comprehend sin, and the way you avoid Hell is to accept God's gift of salvation. It's like if you're in the hospital and the only way you can live is if the doctor gives you a dose of some medicine, but you refuse the medicine. The doctor didn't kill you. It's not the doctor's fault at all. It's your fault for refusing the medicine.

It is the same way with God. We're not good enough to get into Heaven, but God offers us a way. He's not going to force it on us, meaning, if you refuse, you'll go to Hell.

You may still not believe in God, but at least now you may see that, according to Christianity, God doesn't *send* people to Hell. We're doing a good job of that, anyway. God offers a way to not go to Hell, and many people simply decide they don't want it.

So maybe if christians are the only ones who can attain heaven, maybe they are also the only ones who can attain hell.

 

[Hobbit]

So maybe if christians are the only ones who can attain heaven, maybe they are also the only ones who can attain hell.

Nope, the Bible's pretty explicit that those who hear the word but don't heed it will definitely go to Hell. There is, however, a school of thought that theorizes some form of mercy on those who never hear the word, based on the passage from the Bible that basically says it would be better if you never heard the word tha for you to hear it and ignore it.

Once again, I'm not trying to make you believe any of this stuff, but this is what I believe, and I'm basically giving you the truth from the perspective of the average Christian, meaning the Bible is true in this perspective. Thinking about the world in this way is a good way to stop demonizing Christians for many of their actions, and I also try to look at the world through an atheist's perspective (or Muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu, etc.) so I don't demonize them and can relate better. It's good for people who actually want tolerance rather than using it as a buzz word to get their way.

 

[MissileMan]

Nope, the Bible's pretty explicit that those who hear the word but don't heed it will definitely go to Hell. There is, however, a school of thought that theorizes some form of mercy on those who never hear the word, based on the passage from the Bible that basically says it would be better if you never heard the word tha for you to hear it and ignore it.

Wouldn't it be only christians who have heard the word?

 

[Said1]

Wouldn't it be only christians who have heard the word?

Heard and accepted it.

 

[5stringJeff]

Why? So jealous and petty a god is far too human to be worthy of such adoration. Come to think of it, it was people who wrote the various books of the Bible, so it is bound to reflect their ignorance, their prejudices, their misconceptions and, in some measure, their wisdom or lack thereof.

I'm sure one could say that about Buddhist writings as well.

And if God is petty because He expects people to live a certain way... well, I personally think that's .

 

[5stringJeff]

I am a Buddhist that grew up in a strict Pentacostal Household. I respect all people's beliefs. There were a few minor mistakes in your previous post however.

He didn't live in Bethlehem, he was born there. There was a census taking place and the law required his Parents to travel to Bethlehem.

He lived in Nazareth, hence the reason he came from Nazareth.

Those are not the stories that do not synch in the Bible.

Oh, and according to the Bible, JC is God himself and therefore it isn't a middle-man. God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

That's what I was about to say. Thanks!

 

[MissileMan]

Heard and accepted it.

I wasn't trying to get a definition of a christian, but of the phrase "hear the word". Just exactly who is condemned to hell appears to be up to interpretation. Some are saying all non-christians definitely are, some say maybe are. Some are saying that only those who have "heard the word and ignored it". Some have said that only those who have accepted JC can avoid hell.

 

[5stringJeff]

Wouldn't it be only christians who have heard the word?

No. Anyone who has heard about Christianity has heard the Word.

 

[Said1]

I wasn't trying to get a definition of a christian, but of the phrase "hear the word". Just exactly who is condemned to hell appears to be up to interpretation. Some are saying all non-christians definitely are, some say maybe are. Some are saying that only those who have "heard the word and ignored it". Some have said that only those who have accepted JC can avoid hell.

See what I get for jumping in in the middle.

I wasn't defining a Christian, just those who I thought (if I was a practicing Christian) were not going to go to hell.

 

[Hobbit]

I wasn't trying to get a definition of a christian, but of the phrase "hear the word". Just exactly who is condemned to hell appears to be up to interpretation. Some are saying all non-christians definitely are, some say maybe are. Some are saying that only those who have "heard the word and ignored it". Some have said that only those who have accepted JC can avoid hell.

Hearing the word means that you've heard the story of Jesus and his message that he is the only way to salvation. Who's going to Hell is up to minor amounts of debate, but it's pretty undisputed within the church that Jesus is the only way to Heaven.

 

[MissileMan]

See what I get for jumping in in the middle.

I wasn't defining a Christian, just those who I thought (if I was a practicing Christian) were not going to go to hell.

Welcome to the pool! The water's warm.

 

[Bonnie]

See, here's one of the biggest misconceptions of Christianity. God doesn't send you to Hell. You're Hellbound from the moment you can comprehend sin, and the way you avoid Hell is to accept God's gift of salvation. It's like if you're in the hospital and the only way you can live is if the doctor gives you a dose of some medicine, but you refuse the medicine. The doctor didn't kill you. It's not the doctor's fault at all. It's your fault for refusing the medicine.

It is the same way with God. We're not good enough to get into Heaven, but God offers us a way. He's not going to force it on us, meaning, if you refuse, you'll go to Hell.

You may still not believe in God, but at least now you may see that, according to Christianity, God doesn't *send* people to Hell. We're doing a good job of that, anyway. God offers a way to not go to Hell, and many people simply decide they don't want it.

Well said!!

 

[MissileMan]

Hearing the word means that you've heard the story of Jesus and his message that he is the only way to salvation. Who's going to Hell is up to minor amounts of debate, but it's pretty undisputed within the church that Jesus is the only way to Heaven.

Wouldn't this tend to define a christian? It doesn't sound very logical that hearing the story locks you into having to believe it.

 

[Said1]

Wouldn't this tend to define a christian? It doesn't sound very logical that hearing the story locks you into having to believe it.

That was the point I was trying to make about hearing and accepting.

 

[Bonnie]

That's why it's called faith!

 

[dilloduck]

Wouldn't this tend to define a christian? It doesn't sound very logical that hearing the story locks you into having to believe it.

Hearing ---meaning getting the message--it's more than just reading it. Oh ya--ya gotta be open to it.

 

[MissileMan]

Hearing ---meaning getting the message--it's more than just reading it. Oh ya--ya gotta be open to it.

That's exactly the point I've been trying to make. That only those who have heard and accepted the word, and then gone against it would be subject to going to hell. That, to me, would be a reasonable assertion of any religion.

 

[Hobbit]

That's exactly the point I've been trying to make. That only those who have heard and accepted the word, and then gone against it would be subject to going to hell. That, to me, would be a reasonable assertion of any religion.

Maybe it sounds reasonable to you, but the universe is far beyond any of our comprehension, and just because it's 'reasonable' and PC doesn't make it so. There are a lot of true things out there that make no sense to us. However, if the God I believe in is the one true God, then that means he's telling the truth about salvation, which means that whether you hear the word or not, Jesus is the only way into Heaven, and while theologians debate it, most Christians believe this means that those who don't believe in Jesus go to Hell, whether they had our sense of a fair chance or not.

Oh, and living in this country practically disqualifies you from never having heard the gospel. Christianity permeates everything here. The ones who haven't heard are most on the other side of the planet.

Bottom line: Don't cram God into your box. He made the box and could, with a thought, erase the box and all memory of its existance. He OWNS the box.

 

[MissileMan]

Maybe it sounds reasonable to you, but the universe is far beyond any of our comprehension, and just because it's 'reasonable' and PC doesn't make it so. There are a lot of true things out there that make no sense to us. However, if the God I believe in is the one true God, then that means he's telling the truth about salvation, which means that whether you hear the word or not, Jesus is the only way into Heaven, and while theologians debate it, most Christians believe this means that those who don't believe in Jesus go to Hell, whether they had our sense of a fair chance or not.

Oh, and living in this country practically disqualifies you from never having heard the gospel. Christianity permeates everything here. The ones who haven't heard are most on the other side of the planet.

Bottom line: Don't cram God into your box. He made the box and could, with a thought, erase the box and all memory of its existance. He OWNS the box.

Hearing some of the gospel and "hearing and accepting it" are two different things. And a more accurate bottom line would be: You believe what you have learned from the bible is true. You won't know if it is true until you die. Unless there is a second coming, of course.

 

[Bonnie]

That's exactly the point I've been trying to make. That only those who have heard and accepted the word, and then gone against it would be subject to going to hell. That, to me, would be a reasonable assertion of any religion.

So your off the hook then, whenever someone comes near you with the bible just and you don't have to worry about hell