Does Isreal build on deeded land for"illegal settelements ?

[mdn2000]

The "mess" we are in is a result of appeasing Saudi Arabia, nothing more.

Money is a powerful force.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The "mess" we are in is a result of appeasing Saudi Arabia, nothing more.

Money is a powerful force.

Saudi Arabia???

 

[Kalam]

In the 1800's I have seen the figure of around 27% Jewish

Herzl didn't write Judenstaat until 1896.

 

[mdn2000]

The "mess" we are in is a result of appeasing Saudi Arabia, nothing more.

Money is a powerful force.

Saudi Arabia???

Do more than a google search and much of what we assume of Israel based on the media falls like a house of cards.

One of the most informative books I own is, "The Other Arab-Israeli Conflict, Making America's Middle East Policy from Truman to Reagan" by Steven Spiegel.

Very detailed, excellent book, I need to find more books about the specific policy of our government. After reading the book one can relate to bits and pieces in the news as well from other sources.

I am a bit disingenuous in implying it is solely the appeasement of the Sunnis that is the source of the problem but it sometimes helps to rile folks.

Appeasement is the problem, politicians are easily influenced by Oil, Saudi Arabia as we all know is a huge source of oil with many corporations developing the oil reserves, the money involved in oil controls our foreign policy. Saudi Arabia states Kosovo must be Moslem hence Clinton makes Kosovo Moslem, Saudi Arabia is demanding the partition of Israel hence that is our policy.

 

[mdn2000]

In the 1800's I have seen the figure of around 27% Jewish

Herzl didn't write Judenstaat until 1896.

So what, again Kalam until you start reading the biased western coloring books by tourists you will not be able to join in a discussion.

Further if you have been reading my posts you will see that I am not pro-Zionist. The Zionists would have the whole world believe that Zionist built Israel and that is far from the truth.

You should try reading Abba Eban's book, talk about self-righteousness, Mr. Eban would have us believe Israel was created through nothing more then the clever legal arguments of the Zionist.

Kalam, your post is useful to show how some can only see Zionist, Zionism followed the work of others that began laying the foundation for the rise of Israel, the hard work was began by others, Zionist followed, they did not lead.

I have yet to get around to buying Judenstaat, thanks for reminding me.

 

[Kalam]

So what,

The dissemination of Herzl's ideas led to the rise of Zionism as a political ideology. The Jewish population of Palestine would have been relatively insignificant before they began immigrating in droves.

again Kalam until you start reading the biased western coloring books by tourists you will not be able to join in a discussion.

Sorry, Skeeter; I'll join a discussion whenever I damn well please.

I've read Guillaume, Arberry, Lewis, etc. I haven't found anything of much significance that hasn't already been covered in Islamic texts.

Further if you have been reading my posts you will see that I am not pro-Zionist. The Zionists would have the whole world believe that Zionist built Israel and that is far from the truth.

I don't particularly care if you consider yourself "pro-Zionist"; you defend Israeli oppression. The specific circumstances surrounding the creation of the aggressor-state also aren't of great concern to me. I want see it disappear regardless of who played the largest role in bringing its existence about.

You should try reading Abba Eban's book, talk about self-righteousness, Mr. Eban would have us believe Israel was created through nothing more then the clever legal arguments of the Zionist.

I don't doubt it.

Kalam, your post is useful to show how some can only see Zionist, Zionism followed the work of others that began laying the foundation for the rise of Israel, the hard work was began by others, Zionist followed, they did not lead.

Hitler did his part in the creation of the Jewish state. In addition to his obvious offenses, the bastard's actions have ensured that Western minds are suffused with collective Holocaust guilt to this day. Well over half of the people with whom I've discussed the issue have mentioned the Holocaust as if the Jews' tragedy in Europe justified the nakba in Palestine.

 

[mdn2000]

Kalam, you stated specifically you did not read biased western coloring books, if Kalam wishes to admit he is wrong in regards to his statement I have quoted then we might get somewhere but as of now that is not the case.

I cannot have a discussion about Israel with one who is uneducated.

I cannot debate with a bigot.

All I can do is post the facts as they are, I don't expect to educate bigots but that said I won't let the Bigots dictate a Bigoted view of history.

Kalam cannot get off Zionism, I have never said Zionism did not become a political movement yet Kalam responds as if I stated this, I have not, to me this is how a Bigot responds, not an intellect who is educated on the subject.

On immigration, the entire population of Palestine would of been small if it were not for immigration. The truth be know since the great exile of Jews from Palestine the population of Arabs in Palestine also declined.

The population in Palestine began to rise in the 1800's so one must look for answers in the 1800's.

What happened in this period, what happened prior to 1944, simple answer:

The Arabs prospered where they lived close to Jews

Conditions were so poor in the Arab lands of the Arabian Pennisula, of Egypt, of Syria, the Ancient Persian empire, Mesopotamia, etc, etc, Arabs had little choice but to seek a better life living next to Jews.

I don't particularly care if you consider yourself "pro-Zionist"; you defend Israeli oppression

I do not defend oppression, you must of missed my very pointed attack of Marc39 who I call Mouth69, I have been biting my tongue writing my reply, I have not been calling you a bigot as much as I wanted, but as I contemplate and write in regards to the above quote it is obvious you are bigoted.

I have attacked Mouth69, I have stated facts about Jews who oppress others, if you see only through a bigots eyes than you cannot see me for who I am, you only see as a bigot sees thus all you see is tainted and distorted.

I haven't found anything of much significance that hasn't already been covered in Islamic texts.

Again a Bigot only sees biased western coloring books, nothing of significance outside of Islamic texts (there are very few Islamic texts when compared to western works, maybe a 100,000 to 1 ratio).

Western minds are suffused with collective Holocaust guilt to this day

Bigotry again, never wavering, always the same, this is not a discussion, its a biggest rant set off by some facts that stand in the face of Kalam's bigotry.

Its too bad for Kalam.

Human nature, it was not that Hitler hated jews as much as its a part of human nature to be a bigot, to be racist. Typically its the un-educated, its the bastards as in those without fathers or good families. People grow up ignorant or are influenced into being bigots.

The Nazis are gone but the character of human nature that leads one to be a bigot is more prevalent in some than others. Lack of education is definitely part of what led Kalam to be a bigot, Kalam himself freely admitted he does not read biased western coloring books. The KKK has largely disappeared but it was human nature that led to the KKK and Nazis as well the murderous Sunni Moslems, its not the movement that begets oppression its the human tendency to become a bigot given the right set of circumstances in ones life that manifests as Bigotry and than creates or finds the movement.

Kalam is not here to join a discussion, Kalam cannot for Kalam is a bigot.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The "mess" we are in is a result of appeasing Saudi Arabia, nothing more.

Money is a powerful force.

Saudi Arabia???

Do more than a google search and much of what we assume of Israel based on the media falls like a house of cards.

One of the most informative books I own is, "The Other Arab-Israeli Conflict, Making America's Middle East Policy from Truman to Reagan" by Steven Spiegel.

Very detailed, excellent book, I need to find more books about the specific policy of our government. After reading the book one can relate to bits and pieces in the news as well from other sources.

I am a bit disingenuous in implying it is solely the appeasement of the Sunnis that is the source of the problem but it sometimes helps to rile folks.

Appeasement is the problem, politicians are easily influenced by Oil, Saudi Arabia as we all know is a huge source of oil with many corporations developing the oil reserves, the money involved in oil controls our foreign policy. Saudi Arabia states Kosovo must be Moslem hence Clinton makes Kosovo Moslem, Saudi Arabia is demanding the partition of Israel hence that is our policy.

What do you believe are some of the common misperceptions that would not hold up to scrutiny?

I don't find this to be a complicated issue. Now there has been a lot of smoke blown on this issue designed to confuse the people and promote an agenda...ah...propaganda if you will. You can read smoke 'til the cows come home but it does not change the few basic facts that make up this issue.

 

[Marc39]

Saudi Arabia???

Do more than a google search and much of what we assume of Israel based on the media falls like a house of cards.

One of the most informative books I own is, "The Other Arab-Israeli Conflict, Making America's Middle East Policy from Truman to Reagan" by Steven Spiegel.

Very detailed, excellent book, I need to find more books about the specific policy of our government. After reading the book one can relate to bits and pieces in the news as well from other sources.

I am a bit disingenuous in implying it is solely the appeasement of the Sunnis that is the source of the problem but it sometimes helps to rile folks.

Appeasement is the problem, politicians are easily influenced by Oil, Saudi Arabia as we all know is a huge source of oil with many corporations developing the oil reserves, the money involved in oil controls our foreign policy. Saudi Arabia states Kosovo must be Moslem hence Clinton makes Kosovo Moslem, Saudi Arabia is demanding the partition of Israel hence that is our policy.

What do you believe are some of the common misperceptions that would not hold up to scrutiny?

I don't find this to be a complicated issue. Now there has been a lot of smoke blown on this issue designed to confuse the people and promote an agenda...ah...propaganda if you will. You can read smoke 'til the cows come home but it does not change the few basic facts that make up this issue.

You're really not one to talk given your complete ignorance of Middle East affairs.

 

[Marc39]

So what,

The dissemination of Herzl's ideas led to the rise of Zionism as a political ideology. The Jewish population of Palestine would have been relatively insignificant before they began immigrating in droves.

Jews, and Christians, populated Palestine well before Arabs and Muslims invaded from the Arabian Peninsula.

I don't particularly care if you consider yourself "pro-Zionist"; you defend Israeli oppression. The specific circumstances surrounding the creation of the aggressor-state also aren't of great concern to me. I want see it disappear regardless of who played the largest role in bringing its existence about.

There is no Zionist oppression. Israel is the most free country in the Arab Muslim Middle East dominated by fascist, oppressive Islamic shitholes.

Palestine is the ancestral Jewish homeland. Camel herders go home to Mecca and Medina, where you belong.

 

[mdn2000]

The biggest misconception is that the Arabs political leaders and the political movement in Palestine originated as a grass roots organization within Palestine to free Arabs from Jewish oppression.

Another whopper is that the Arabs had to flee from the Jews in 1947 when the war for independence began.

Maybe the biggest misconception is that Jews and Arabs cannot live together in peace.

Another is that Jews mistreat Arabs, history shows Arabs benefited living in close proximity to Jews.

Biggest misconception is how the Nation of Israel was reborn, when, how, and by whom.

 

[Marc39]

Is that what your last driveway client pointed out about your concrete work, day labor?

No, that's what your drug dealer tells you, stoner.

you don't know him, I assure you. He's jewish and hates zionists. You'd have been curbstomped long ago.

Martin Luther King, Jr. was an avowed Zionist...

I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.

Go back to sleep, stoner.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The biggest misconception is that the Arabs political leaders and the political movement in Palestine originated as a grass roots organization within Palestine to free Arabs from Jewish oppression.

I am not sure what you mean by this or what is the relevance.

Another whopper is that the Arabs had to flee from the Jews in 1947 when the war for independence began.

I believe that is a well documented fact.

Maybe the biggest misconception is that Jews and Arabs cannot live together in peace.

I don't believe that. I believe in the "one state" solution. I believe that this is propagated by the Israeli side to justify actions against the Palestinians. About 30% of Palestinians believe in the one state solution which is high considering that no public officials mention this option. Well, there has been some mention popping up lately. Hamas has stated the desire for one state with equal rights for all but Fatah is still in the two state camp.

Another is that Jews mistreat Arabs, history shows Arabs benefited living in close proximity to Jews.

This varies from time to place. It is true that the Jews brought new money and ideas to Palestine, however this prosperity was kept away from the Palestinians as much as possible. Land ownership policies were that any land transferred to Jews would never be transferred back to Palestinians. The ratchet effect of this policy would eventually lead the Palestinians to own nothing. Another policy is that employment for Palestinians was limited to low pay manual labor.

Biggest misconception is how the Nation of Israel was reborn, when, how, and by whom.

I think this is irrelevant. This is merely to justify the illegal acts against the Palestinians.

 

[Marc39]

I believe that is a well documented fact.

When will you become familiar with the facts?

I don't believe that. I believe in the "one state" solution. I believe that this is propagated by the Israeli side to justify actions against the Palestinians.

You can't even tell us who so-called Palestinians are. Israel's actions constitute self-defense against Muslim barbarians, which is entirely within the law of armed conflict and the UN Charter.

About 30% of Palestinians believe in the one state solution which is high considering that no public officials mention this option. Well, there has been some mention popping up lately. Hamas has stated the desire for one state with equal rights for all but Fatah is still in the two state camp.

Israel is a sovereign state. There will never be a one-state solution that permits more Arab savages to overrun Israel.

This varies from time to place. It is true that the Jews brought new money and ideas to Palestine, however this prosperity was kept away from the Palestinians as much as possible. Land ownership policies were that any land transferred to Jews would never be transferred back to Palestinians. The ratchet effect of this policy would eventually lead the Palestinians to own nothing. Another policy is that employment for Palestinians was limited to low pay manual labor.

Wrong, dopey. Don't pretend to be aware of the subject matter.

Palestine Royal Commission...

The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [to Jews] and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National [Jewish] Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.

Now, even you know, moron.

You are the Forum Dunce.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I believe that is a well documented fact.

When will you become familiar with the facts?

I don't believe that. I believe in the "one state" solution. I believe that this is propagated by the Israeli side to justify actions against the Palestinians.

You can't even tell us who so-called Palestinians are. Israel's actions constitute self-defense against Muslim barbarians, which is entirely within the law of armed conflict and the UN Charter.



Israel is a sovereign state. There will never be a one-state solution that permits more Arab savages to overrun Israel.

This varies from time to place. It is true that the Jews brought new money and ideas to Palestine, however this prosperity was kept away from the Palestinians as much as possible. Land ownership policies were that any land transferred to Jews would never be transferred back to Palestinians. The ratchet effect of this policy would eventually lead the Palestinians to own nothing. Another policy is that employment for Palestinians was limited to low pay manual labor.

Wrong, dopey. Don't pretend to be aware of the subject matter.

Palestine Royal Commission...

The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [to Jews] and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National [Jewish] Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.

Now, even you know, moron.

You are the Forum Dunce.

When are you going to contribute anything intelligent to the debate?

 

[Marc39]

I believe that is a well documented fact.

When will you become familiar with the facts?



You can't even tell us who so-called Palestinians are. Israel's actions constitute self-defense against Muslim barbarians, which is entirely within the law of armed conflict and the UN Charter.



Israel is a sovereign state. There will never be a one-state solution that permits more Arab savages to overrun Israel.



Wrong, dopey. Don't pretend to be aware of the subject matter.

Palestine Royal Commission...

The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [to Jews] and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National [Jewish] Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.

Now, even you know, moron.

You are the Forum Dunce.

When are you going to contribute anything intelligent to the debate?

I just did, Forum Dunce. Sucks having me correct you each time, eh?

You are the Forum Dunce.

 

[P F Tinmore]

When will you become familiar with the facts?



You can't even tell us who so-called Palestinians are. Israel's actions constitute self-defense against Muslim barbarians, which is entirely within the law of armed conflict and the UN Charter.



Israel is a sovereign state. There will never be a one-state solution that permits more Arab savages to overrun Israel.

Wrong, dopey. Don't pretend to be aware of the subject matter.

Palestine Royal Commission...


Now, even you know, moron.

You are the Forum Dunce.

When are you going to contribute anything intelligent to the debate?

I just did, Forum Dunce. Sucks having me correct you each time, eh?

You are the Forum Dunce.

What did you "correct?"

 

[Marc39]

When are you going to contribute anything intelligent to the debate?

I just did, Forum Dunce. Sucks having me correct you each time, eh?

You are the Forum Dunce.

What did you "correct?"

Your brain is fried and you're mentally disabled, but, others undoubtedly see the correction.
You are the Forum Dunce.

 

[Shogun]

No, that's what your drug dealer tells you, stoner.

you don't know him, I assure you. He's jewish and hates zionists. You'd have been curbstomped long ago.

Martin Luther King, Jr. was an avowed Zionist...

I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.

Go back to sleep, stoner.

he was also an adulterer. so much for deification, eh jew?

 

[Shogun]

I believe that is a well documented fact.

When will you become familiar with the facts?



You can't even tell us who so-called Palestinians are. Israel's actions constitute self-defense against Muslim barbarians, which is entirely within the law of armed conflict and the UN Charter.



Israel is a sovereign state. There will never be a one-state solution that permits more Arab savages to overrun Israel.



Wrong, dopey. Don't pretend to be aware of the subject matter.

Palestine Royal Commission...

The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [to Jews] and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National [Jewish] Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.

Now, even you know, moron.

You are the Forum Dunce.

When are you going to contribute anything intelligent to the debate?

yea... his reputation around here is pretty soiled. Obviously, it takes a jew or end of days christian to put any water in his bucket.


or, should I say concrete in his wheel barrow.