Does Heaven Exist?

[ding]

God has helped me every single time I asked. He's saved my ass 100 times. I asked him why and how to get better.He put me in a dream where I was watching myself from the side go off on a guy in one of my tirades. I hated me. Weird.

Nothing is as it seems. Everything is inside out, upside down and backwards.

 

[Mindful]

Gandalf said:

"End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take."

You are quoting a book which was written as a metaphor for Christianity written by a devout Catholic?

I didn't think about it that deeply.

I like the sayings, I like Gandalf, and I like Tolkien.

I went to Oxford, and walked in his "footsteps".

Maybe you are a closet Catholic.

And maybe I'm not.

Maybe but then you’d have to explain why you are in a religion forum discussing heaven.

I don't have to explain anything.

Would you like me to move it to the philosophy forum?

 

[Mindful]

God has helped me every single time I asked. He's saved my ass 100 times. I asked him why and how to get better.He put me in a dream where I was watching myself from the side go off on a guy in one of my tirades. I hated me. Weird.

Nothing is as it seems. Everything is inside out, upside down and backwards.

You're a contortionist?

 

[ding]

You are quoting a book which was written as a metaphor for Christianity written by a devout Catholic?

I didn't think about it that deeply.

I like the sayings, I like Gandalf, and I like Tolkien.

I went to Oxford, and walked in his "footsteps".

Maybe you are a closet Catholic.

And maybe I'm not.

Maybe but then you’d have to explain why you are in a religion forum discussing heaven.

I don't have to explain anything.

Would you like me to move it to the philosophy forum?

That’s right, you don’t have to explain everything. You don’t even need to explain anything.

All I was doing was pointing out what I believe is an incongruity.

 

[ding]

God has helped me every single time I asked. He's saved my ass 100 times. I asked him why and how to get better.He put me in a dream where I was watching myself from the side go off on a guy in one of my tirades. I hated me. Weird.

Nothing is as it seems. Everything is inside out, upside down and backwards.

You're a contortionist?

No. I am awake.

 

[Mindful]

I didn't think about it that deeply.

I like the sayings, I like Gandalf, and I like Tolkien.

I went to Oxford, and walked in his "footsteps".

Maybe you are a closet Catholic.

And maybe I'm not.

Maybe but then you’d have to explain why you are in a religion forum discussing heaven.

I don't have to explain anything.

Would you like me to move it to the philosophy forum?

That’s right, you don’t have to explain everything. You don’t even need to explain anything.

All I was doing was pointing out what I believe is an incongruity.

Are you annoying me on purpose?

 

[Mindful]

God has helped me every single time I asked. He's saved my ass 100 times. I asked him why and how to get better.He put me in a dream where I was watching myself from the side go off on a guy in one of my tirades. I hated me. Weird.

Nothing is as it seems. Everything is inside out, upside down and backwards.

You're a contortionist?

No. I am awake.

lol.

 

[ding]

Maybe you are a closet Catholic.

And maybe I'm not.

Maybe but then you’d have to explain why you are in a religion forum discussing heaven.

I don't have to explain anything.

Would you like me to move it to the philosophy forum?

That’s right, you don’t have to explain everything. You don’t even need to explain anything.

All I was doing was pointing out what I believe is an incongruity.

Are you annoying me on purpose?

No. It is just a happy coincidence and side benefit.

Seriously though, I don’t have the power you grant me. I can’t make you annoyed. Only you can allow yourself to be annoyed. Right?

 

[ding]

God has helped me every single time I asked. He's saved my ass 100 times. I asked him why and how to get better.He put me in a dream where I was watching myself from the side go off on a guy in one of my tirades. I hated me. Weird.

Nothing is as it seems. Everything is inside out, upside down and backwards.

You're a contortionist?

No. I am awake.

lol.

You could be awake too if you stopped living in a dream.

 

[Mindful]

And maybe I'm not.

Maybe but then you’d have to explain why you are in a religion forum discussing heaven.

I don't have to explain anything.

Would you like me to move it to the philosophy forum?

That’s right, you don’t have to explain everything. You don’t even need to explain anything.

All I was doing was pointing out what I believe is an incongruity.

Are you annoying me on purpose?

No. It is just a happy coincidence and side benefit.

Seriously though, I don’t have the power you grant me. I can’t make you annoyed. Only you can allow yourself to be annoyed. Right?

Don't get carried away with your "power", will you?

 

[Mindful]

God has helped me every single time I asked. He's saved my ass 100 times. I asked him why and how to get better.He put me in a dream where I was watching myself from the side go off on a guy in one of my tirades. I hated me. Weird.

Nothing is as it seems. Everything is inside out, upside down and backwards.

You're a contortionist?

No. I am awake.

lol.

You could be awake too if you stopped living in a dream.

Ah. If only.

 

[ding]

Maybe but then you’d have to explain why you are in a religion forum discussing heaven.

I don't have to explain anything.

Would you like me to move it to the philosophy forum?

That’s right, you don’t have to explain everything. You don’t even need to explain anything.

All I was doing was pointing out what I believe is an incongruity.

Are you annoying me on purpose?

No. It is just a happy coincidence and side benefit.

Seriously though, I don’t have the power you grant me. I can’t make you annoyed. Only you can allow yourself to be annoyed. Right?

Don't get carried away with your "power", will you?

That was sort of my point. You grant me my power over you. It isn’t my power.

 

[ding]

Nothing is as it seems. Everything is inside out, upside down and backwards.

You're a contortionist?

No. I am awake.

lol.

You could be awake too if you stopped living in a dream.

Ah. If only.

It isn’t that hard to do. Confront reality.

 

[Mindful]

I don't have to explain anything.

Would you like me to move it to the philosophy forum?

That’s right, you don’t have to explain everything. You don’t even need to explain anything.

All I was doing was pointing out what I believe is an incongruity.

Are you annoying me on purpose?

No. It is just a happy coincidence and side benefit.

Seriously though, I don’t have the power you grant me. I can’t make you annoyed. Only you can allow yourself to be annoyed. Right?

Don't get carried away with your "power", will you?

That was sort of my point. You grant me my power over you. It isn’t my power.

So, why are you using it?

 

[Mindful]

You're a contortionist?

No. I am awake.

lol.

You could be awake too if you stopped living in a dream.

Ah. If only.

It isn’t that hard to do. Confront reality.

Your reality, I suppose?

 

[ding]

That’s right, you don’t have to explain everything. You don’t even need to explain anything.

All I was doing was pointing out what I believe is an incongruity.

Are you annoying me on purpose?

No. It is just a happy coincidence and side benefit.

Seriously though, I don’t have the power you grant me. I can’t make you annoyed. Only you can allow yourself to be annoyed. Right?

Don't get carried away with your "power", will you?

That was sort of my point. You grant me my power over you. It isn’t my power.

So, why are you using it?

Because you gave it to me?

 

[ding]

No. I am awake.

lol.

You could be awake too if you stopped living in a dream.

Ah. If only.

It isn’t that hard to do. Confront reality.

Your reality, I suppose?

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

 

[Mindful]

Start a discussion on morals. In Philosophy.

Shall I do it? Or would you like to?

 

[ding]

Start a discussion on morals. In Philosophy.

Shall I do it? Or would you like to?

I was explaining to you the difference between perception of truth and objective truth.

You were the one who raised the question.

 

[Mindful]

Start a discussion on morals. In Philosophy.

Shall I do it? Or would you like to?

I was explaining to you the difference between perception of truth and objective truth.

You were the one who raised the question.

What you are doing is, trying to lead me into the labyrinth.