Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

Taste this
1 Timothy 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.

12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
 
Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

Most religions claim that we have all been condemned by God for some reason or another, and that faith in a certain God or his revealed religion must be adhered to to gain salvation. Most religions say that you cannot save yourself without their help.

Have you been condemned? Was it a just condemnation? What evil did you do to gain that condemnation? Have you been saved from it by your own efforts of the efforts of someone else?

Could you not do it on your own and did you need to pay cash the way religions tell you is required?

I show the poor thinking of religions and their adherents with this Protestant against Catholic view, but as stated, this issue applies to all religions.



Regards
DL

You don’t understand most religions. How can you? You are a secular humanist.

religion is man made...man makes it all up = no god/etc

At the heart of this debate is whether spirit created the material world or the material world created spirit.

How do you believe the material world was created if not by spirit? Do you even have a clue?


What is more likely; evolution, or talking serpents and donkeys?

Regards
DL

I can’t help it if you read Genesis literally. It’s not meant to be literally.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that the material world was created by spirit and that man is a product of the material world. So the evolution of matter and energy from subatomic particles to beings that know and create is consistent with Genesis chapters 1 and 2.


Rib women are for the stupid.

Regards
DL
 
Saved, since July 9, 2000. Even though I had experienced a lot of life before then, I can honestly say that my life didn't truly begin until that day.

Tell us what happened.

What huge infraction had you done to earn your condemnation and how was it forgiven by your victim?

Regards
DL
 
Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?


Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!

So you are to be punished for not being perfect. Wow.

Do you see that as fair and just?

Regards
DL
 
Jesus Saves!

Why don't you?

90% of Americans aren't helping themselves into a comfortable old age by saving when they're young. Why should Jesus lift a finger save them?

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Regards
DL
 
You’re being generous with “matter-of-fact truth” when your truths are absent verification. Nothing in any manuscript of any book written by men is a meaningful indication of any connection to any gods. The various bibles were written by men with no help, guidance, booming voices, apparitions or visitations from the gods. Yours and everyone else’s concept of the gods comes from various books written by men. It's just so convenient that the gods display all the attributes of humanity (our wants, desires, frailties, fears and superstitions) in texts we know are written by humans.

I will advise also that overwhelmingly, geography accounts for whatever communications from the gods (by way of books written by men), is the determining factor for religious belief.

The "Herd Mentality" is hardly a factor for determining the veracity of one collection of gods vs. another.

At one time, 3 billion people believed that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Hey, 3 billion people can't be wrong, correct?
Scripture and other books recount experiences others have had with God. The stories are interesting, and they teach their lessons. But the best lesson of all is to seek out one's own experiences with God. That--not what scripture says--is why billions are drawn to faith and belief in God.

You are lying like a rug.

Jesus said that any who had faith or belief in him could do what he did and more.

Millions might be drawn, but according to the standard Jesus set, none have gotten there so far, not even you.

What we have is either millions of hypocrites or millions of liars.

Regards
DL
 
i find that those who claim to have been saved are some of the most greedy, hypocritical,

' hate your next door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace ' people i have ever seen.
 
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Savior especially to the believers, --- shows why Gnostic Christianity is a universalist creed which has tied equality to righteousness.

You show the unrighteousness of God well.

Regards
DL
 
So you are to be punished for not being perfect. Wow.

Do you see that as fair and just?

Regards
DL

Hey. How's it going? Ya sleestak. Ha. Just flipping through the thread I'm reminded of a bit of prose about no man being an island. You know what prose is, right? Rather than poetry, prose is a natural flow of written language rather than a rhythmic structure of rhyme we read in your standard poetry. Some of it is pretty good.

Anyway. It's true. No man is an island. We're all products of this world. Placed into context with your question, there are times when the realization that it's this world that turns stone cold killers into heroes in the eyes of the masses becomes clear. And the realization that the good men in this world are systematically placed on a pedestal to be ridiculed. It's crazy. Very upside-down. These realizations are moments of Grace. Moments of Grace are when we finally see this fundamental truth. They're found rather than given. They're very rare moments indeed when we are able to see and separate ourselves from it and become an island separate from the rest of that fallen world. No soul is too late to save in that regard.

There are people who can talk about such things with great humilty. I am not one of those people, but that's the fundamental nature of what we're faced with when born into this world. The only way we're gonna get out of it safe and leave our old ghosts behind is a rebirth into a new world. One that was meant to be way back when.
 
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So you are to be punished for not being perfect. Wow.

Do you see that as fair and just?

Regards
DL

Hey. How's it going? Ya sleestak. Ha. Just flipping through the thread I'm reminded of a bit of prose about no man being an island. You know what prose is, right? Rather than poetry, prose is a natural flow of written language rather than a rhythmic structure of rhyme we read in your standard poetry. Some of it is pretty good.

Anyway. It's true. No man is an island. We're all products of this world. Placed into context with your question, there are times when the realization that it's this world that turns stone cold killers into heroes in the eyes of the masses becomes clear. And the realization that the good men in this world are systematically placed on a pedestal to be ridiculed. It's crazy. Very upside-down. These realizations are moments of Grace. Moments of Grace are when we finally see this fundamental truth. They're found rather than given. They're very rare moments indeed when we are able to see and separate ourselves from it and become an island separate from the rest of that fallen world. No soul is too late to save in that regard.

There are people who can talk about such things with great humilty. I am not one of those people, but that's the fundamental nature of what we're faced with when born into this world. The only way we're gonna get out of it safe and leave our old ghosts behind is a rebirth into a new world. One that was meant to be way back when.

Silly supernatural thinking is seldom helpful. So says Jesus.

You rely a lot on tradition and seem to care more for your body than your mind.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I may have read you wrong but please, no silly supernatural thinking as that is for children.

Regards
DL
 
John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regards
DL

Exactly! That's what I said, man.


...supernatural thinking as that is for children.

Exactly!

‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven....'

Childlike faith, I guess it is. And perhaps why the bag man told us to call no other man Father.

Alright, then. I don't often wander into these discussions. It's not muh forte.

I'll say this, though, DL. Every rose has a thorn. Just like every night has its dawn. Just like every cowboy sings a sad, sad song. Every rose has its thorn. Yeah, it does. And the world is a vampire. Ha.

Later...
 
John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regards
DL

Exactly! That's what I said, man.


...supernatural thinking as that is for children.

Exactly!

‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven....'

Childlike faith, I guess it is. And perhaps why the bag man told us to call no other man Father.

Alright, then. I don't often wander into these discussions. It's not muh forte.

I'll say this, though, DL. Every rose has a thorn. Just like every night has its dawn. Just like every cowboy sings a sad, sad song. Every rose has its thorn. Yeah, it does. And the world is a vampire. Ha.

Later...

Indeed.

Apologies if I did not quite get you. Your reference to being reborn and saving souls threw me off a bit.

Regards
DL
 
Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?


Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!

So you are to be punished for not being perfect. Wow.

Do you see that as fair and just?


Regards
DL
No where in my post did I say punished.....

True but it is implied.

"Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!"

If you are not saved because of your imperfections, then saved from what if not punishment?

Regards
DL
 
Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?


Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!

So you are to be punished for not being perfect. Wow.

Do you see that as fair and just?


Regards
DL
No where in my post did I say punished.....

True but it is implied.

"Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!"

If you are not saved because of your imperfections, then saved from what if not punishment?

Regards
DL
God doesn't punish...he teaches.....I just want to get in the fast pass line at the pearly gates......lol

yes I believe that Heaven has a wall a big beautiful gate...and a strict immigration policy....but punishment?.....nah I don't think a creator would punish his creation....
 
Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?


Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!

So you are to be punished for not being perfect. Wow.

Do you see that as fair and just?


Regards
DL
No where in my post did I say punished.....

True but it is implied.

"Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!"

If you are not saved because of your imperfections, then saved from what if not punishment?

Regards
DL
Saved from ourselves. Be careful for what you wish for.
 
So you are to be punished for not being perfect. Wow.

Do you see that as fair and just?

Regards
DL

Hey. How's it going? Ya sleestak. Ha. Just flipping through the thread I'm reminded of a bit of prose about no man being an island. You know what prose is, right? Rather than poetry, prose is a natural flow of written language rather than a rhythmic structure of rhyme we read in your standard poetry. Some of it is pretty good.

Anyway. It's true. No man is an island. We're all products of this world. Placed into context with your question, there are times when the realization that it's this world that turns stone cold killers into heroes in the eyes of the masses becomes clear. And the realization that the good men in this world are systematically placed on a pedestal to be ridiculed. It's crazy. Very upside-down. These realizations are moments of Grace. Moments of Grace are when we finally see this fundamental truth. They're found rather than given. They're very rare moments indeed when we are able to see and separate ourselves from it and become an island separate from the rest of that fallen world. No soul is too late to save in that regard.

There are people who can talk about such things with great humilty. I am not one of those people, but that's the fundamental nature of what we're faced with when born into this world. The only way we're gonna get out of it safe and leave our old ghosts behind is a rebirth into a new world. One that was meant to be way back when.

Silly supernatural thinking is seldom helpful. So says Jesus.

You rely a lot on tradition and seem to care more for your body than your mind.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I may have read you wrong but please, no silly supernatural thinking as that is for children.

Regards
DL
Traditions are quite important. It’s the glue which binds us.
 

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