Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

[Meriweather]

The egotism of theism, that we somehow must "live forever!

Not egotism. Just a matter-of-fact truth.

 

[GreatestIam]

As to what happens you die, why do you think you’re going to some place called "heaven", because you read it in a book? I mean, that’s it?

No. Personal experience.

Explain in detail please.
I always like to compare my apotheosis to that of others.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

Most religions claim that we have all been condemned by God for some reason or another, and that faith in a certain God or his revealed religion must be adhered to to gain salvation. Most religions say that you cannot save yourself without their help.

Have you been condemned? Was it a just condemnation? What evil did you do to gain that condemnation? Have you been saved from it by your own efforts of the efforts of someone else?

Could you not do it on your own and did you need to pay cash the way religions tell you is required?

I show the poor thinking of religions and their adherents with this Protestant against Catholic view, but as stated, this issue applies to all religions.



Regards
DL

You don’t understand most religions. How can you? You are a secular humanist.

religion is man made...man makes it all up = no god/etc

At the heart of this debate is whether spirit created the material world or the material world created spirit.

How do you believe the material world was created if not by spirit? Do you even have a clue?

What is more likely; evolution, or talking serpents and donkeys?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

The egotism of theism, that we somehow must "live forever!

Not egotism. Just a matter-of-fact truth.

Truths come with proofs. You have no proofs to show and that is why people reject your theosis or apotheosis as it led you to a demonstrably evil God.

You are a victim of Satan who can deceive the whole world, according to your scriptures.

Regards
DL

 

[Meriweather]

Explain in detail please.

I'll pass. My experience is not new or unheard of. Many like it, and that have surpassed mine, have already been published.

 

[Meriweather]

Truths come with proofs.

The actual teaching at the college level of this is that objectivity does not guarantee truth and subjectivity is not necessarily false. Subjectivity and objectivity are different ways of knowing. One is should not be taken as the opposite of the other.

 

[ding]

Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

Most religions claim that we have all been condemned by God for some reason or another, and that faith in a certain God or his revealed religion must be adhered to to gain salvation. Most religions say that you cannot save yourself without their help.

Have you been condemned? Was it a just condemnation? What evil did you do to gain that condemnation? Have you been saved from it by your own efforts of the efforts of someone else?

Could you not do it on your own and did you need to pay cash the way religions tell you is required?

I show the poor thinking of religions and their adherents with this Protestant against Catholic view, but as stated, this issue applies to all religions.



Regards
DL

You don’t understand most religions. How can you? You are a secular humanist.

religion is man made...man makes it all up = no god/etc

At the heart of this debate is whether spirit created the material world or the material world created spirit.

How do you believe the material world was created if not by spirit? Do you even have a clue?

What is more likely; evolution, or talking serpents and donkeys?

Regards
DL

I can’t help it if you read Genesis literally. It’s not meant to be literally.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that the material world was created by spirit and that man is a product of the material world. So the evolution of matter and energy from subatomic particles to beings that know and create is consistent with Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

 

[buttercup]

Saved, since July 9, 2000. Even though I had experienced a lot of life before then, I can honestly say that my life didn't truly begin until that day.

 

[OnePercenter]

Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

Most religions claim that we have all been condemned by God for some reason or another, and that faith in a certain God or his revealed religion must be adhered to to gain salvation. Most religions say that you cannot save yourself without their help.

Have you been condemned? Was it a just condemnation? What evil did you do to gain that condemnation? Have you been saved from it by your own efforts of the efforts of someone else?

Could you not do it on your own and did you need to pay cash the way religions tell you is required?

I show the poor thinking of religions and their adherents with this Protestant against Catholic view, but as stated, this issue applies to all religions.


Regards
DL

I don't do anything that would require to be "saved" from/of. Unlike religious folks, I think before I act/react.

 

[OnePercenter]

Saved, since July 9, 2000. Even though I had experienced a lot of life before then, I can honestly say that my life didn't truly begin until that day.

Sucker.....

 

[buttercup]

Saved, since July 9, 2000. Even though I had experienced a lot of life before then, I can honestly say that my life didn't truly begin until that day.

Sucker.....

You have no idea what you're talking about. But I understand why you'd say that, I probably would've said the exact same thing in my BC days.

 

[Hollie]

The egotism of theism, that we somehow must "live forever!

Not egotism. Just a matter-of-fact truth.

You’re being generous with “matter-of-fact truth” when your truths are absent verification. Nothing in any manuscript of any book written by men is a meaningful indication of any connection to any gods. The various bibles were written by men with no help, guidance, booming voices, apparitions or visitations from the gods. Yours and everyone else’s concept of the gods comes from various books written by men. It's just so convenient that the gods display all the attributes of humanity (our wants, desires, frailties, fears and superstitions) in texts we know are written by humans.

I will advise also that overwhelmingly, geography accounts for whatever communications from the gods (by way of books written by men), is the determining factor for religious belief.

The "Herd Mentality" is hardly a factor for determining the veracity of one collection of gods vs. another.

At one time, 3 billion people believed that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Hey, 3 billion people can't be wrong, correct?

 

[Rambunctious]

Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?


Oh yeah I do need saving...no one is perfect...not even Rambunctious!!!!!

 

[HenryBHough]

Jesus Saves!

Why don't you?

90% of Americans aren't helping themselves into a comfortable old age by saving when they're young. Why should Jesus lift a finger save them?

 

[Meriweather]

You’re being generous with “matter-of-fact truth” when your truths are absent verification. Nothing in any manuscript of any book written by men is a meaningful indication of any connection to any gods. The various bibles were written by men with no help, guidance, booming voices, apparitions or visitations from the gods. Yours and everyone else’s concept of the gods comes from various books written by men. It's just so convenient that the gods display all the attributes of humanity (our wants, desires, frailties, fears and superstitions) in texts we know are written by humans.

I will advise also that overwhelmingly, geography accounts for whatever communications from the gods (by way of books written by men), is the determining factor for religious belief.

The "Herd Mentality" is hardly a factor for determining the veracity of one collection of gods vs. another.

At one time, 3 billion people believed that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Hey, 3 billion people can't be wrong, correct?

Scripture and other books recount experiences others have had with God. The stories are interesting, and they teach their lessons. But the best lesson of all is to seek out one's own experiences with God. That--not what scripture says--is why billions are drawn to faith and belief in God.

 

[Hollie]

You’re being generous with “matter-of-fact truth” when your truths are absent verification. Nothing in any manuscript of any book written by men is a meaningful indication of any connection to any gods. The various bibles were written by men with no help, guidance, booming voices, apparitions or visitations from the gods. Yours and everyone else’s concept of the gods comes from various books written by men. It's just so convenient that the gods display all the attributes of humanity (our wants, desires, frailties, fears and superstitions) in texts we know are written by humans.

I will advise also that overwhelmingly, geography accounts for whatever communications from the gods (by way of books written by men), is the determining factor for religious belief.

The "Herd Mentality" is hardly a factor for determining the veracity of one collection of gods vs. another.

At one time, 3 billion people believed that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Hey, 3 billion people can't be wrong, correct?

Scripture and other books recount experiences others have had with God. The stories are interesting, and they teach their lessons. But the best lesson of all is to seek out one's own experiences with God. That--not what scripture says--is why billions are drawn to faith and belief in God.

Scripture and other books recount hearsay. You can believe whatever you want but the facts is, if Christians were willing to be objective; they would admit they have no corroboration that any of the gospels were authored by Luke, Matthew, Mark or John. They are simply accepting they were.

Regarding people’s “experiences” with the gods, I can’t account for those. Those experiences with partisan gods are shared by the cultures which invented those gods.

We don’t hear much about the Christian gods visiting Hindu worshippers. Similarly, the Greek gods don’t seem to be anxious to make an appearance at the snake handling services of Christian fundamentalists.

Maybe it would be inappropriate for the various gods to step out of their assigned geographic areas?

 

[Meriweather]

Scripture and other books recount hearsay. You can believe whatever you want but the facts is, if Christians were willing to be objective; they would admit they have no corroboration that any of the gospels were authored by Luke, Matthew, Mark or John. They are simply accepting they were.

Regarding people’s “experiences” with the gods, I can’t account for those. Those experiences with partisan gods are shared by the cultures which invented those gods.

We don’t hear much about the Christian gods visiting Hindu worshippers. Similarly, the Greek gods don’t seem to be anxious to make an appearance at the snake handling services of Christian fundamentalists.

Maybe it would be inappropriate for the various gods to step out of their assigned geographic areas?

When something supernatural happens, all anyone has is their own language, their own set of references to try to describe the experiences. It is unreasonable to expect a Hindu to suddenly learn modern English and American references with which to relate what happened to him.

 

[Hollie]

Scripture and other books recount hearsay. You can believe whatever you want but the facts is, if Christians were willing to be objective; they would admit they have no corroboration that any of the gospels were authored by Luke, Matthew, Mark or John. They are simply accepting they were.

Regarding people’s “experiences” with the gods, I can’t account for those. Those experiences with partisan gods are shared by the cultures which invented those gods.

We don’t hear much about the Christian gods visiting Hindu worshippers. Similarly, the Greek gods don’t seem to be anxious to make an appearance at the snake handling services of Christian fundamentalists.

Maybe it would be inappropriate for the various gods to step out of their assigned geographic areas?

When something supernatural happens, all anyone has is their own language, their own set of references to try to describe the experiences. It is unreasonable to expect a Hindu to suddenly learn modern English and American references with which to relate what happened to him.

When has anything supernatural ever happened? Can you identify a single instance?

The Christian gods don’t speak Urdu? Here I was thinking that the gods could do anything because they’re.... you know.....the gods.

 

[Meriweather]

When has anything supernatural ever happened? Can you identify a single instance?

The Christian gods don’t speak Urdu? Here I was thinking that the gods could do anything because they’re.... you know.....the gods.

Anyone who has had an experience of God is in the supernatural--or the spiritual--setting. God may be able to speak Urdu, but He wouldn't speak it to me any more than He would speak pig Latin as I wouldn't understand that either. This is something everyone with a child--or a pet--can understand. As it is impossible for a child or a pet to ascend to adult level, we have to go to their level as best we can.

The point I make is that many believers, perhaps even most, have their own reasons and stories to support their belief of a higher power (God). When this happens, the Bible becomes a secondary source. Note I am not saying it is of secondary import, because in many ways it remains most important. But actual experience has a bigger impact than reading what happened to someone else. Perhaps this will give better insight to people of faith.

 

[Likkmee]

SAVED 1986

What was the big sin that earned you your initial condemnation and was it a fair penalty?

Or do you mean you finally smartened up and left your religion is 86

Regards
DL

Initial condemnation =Non belief. Then I started studying things like this(pre internet, of course)