Do You Believe In God?

[irosie91]

Interesting answers. Growing up RC and for 40 years living as a very believing RC, rosary rattler even, since my further study of the OT and ancient history, of which I had no time to embark on before the age of 40ish, I yet believe in a higher power, I guess that is ingrained in me,

But I believe the bible is not the word of God BUT man, and their culture, and based on the study of the heavens and myths, copied from other religions, Egyptian, Persian, Sumerian, Roman and even Greek philosophy , I do believe a tribe such as the Hebrews were outshoots of Egyptians, (the lepers) and even the Canaanites and I do believe that some of the battles they talk about did happen as described. Also we have astrology in it , ever hear As above so below? and I see a marked contrast of the OT (violence) and the NT (peaceful submission) , and what lead me on this path, is when I asked myself Why are most Jews atheist and also, the religion mine (RC-Christianity) was supposedly based on and yet most of them (Jews ) were and are atheist..

I mean we need to be realistic, all cultures have their God and they have for years.

Also in Christianity , Who is the Father, certainty not Yahweh?

Penelope is language impaired----but not as a manifestation of a neurologic injury (as in stroke or trauma or even developemental anomaly------just ordinary stupidity. I will translate >>>>
I, Penelope---was at one time a mindless RC----but then
past the age of 40, (as opposed to the normal child who
reaches the cognitive level of complex operations by about 12)
I realized that Jesus was jewish. The revelation knocked my
catholic socks off-----as the earliest lessons of my life
included the "FACT" that jews are evil and have more money
than does the "christian" god. It was a spiritual crisis. The only
remnant of my early "spiritual" education that remains in my heart
is ---**)) HATRED FOR DA JOOOOS ((** complicated by my
unwarranted belief that I understand the contents of a book I never
read and would not understand it if I tried. So I resorted to
propaganda jibberish that ""seemed"" logical to my scrambled
perverted mind. My new SPIRITUAL quest is----SPREADING
THE GOSPEL-----which is ----Jesus was not a jew. It is an
interesting idea first promulgated by a person so perverse in his
actions and believe that Christian scholars DENY that he ever
actually converted to Christianity------(to wit---Constantine)

I could give hoots about their money, money is their god. answer the question?

I looked back for "THE QUESTION" -----the question seems to be
"IS YAWEH THE FATHER" ------a very silly question since the word
YAHWEH is a construct of Christian "interpreters"------ie----there ain't no YAHWEH in Judaism. For you---Penelope----if you read information about Judaism that includes the "word" ----Yahweh----then
the information you have read is BULLSHIT----which could be the reason that most of your posts are bullshit. Jesus did not know that word and neither did I until I started reading the same kind of crap upon which you were nurtured. But while we are on the subject----
who is the "Yahweh" that so fascinates you and what does the
'word' mean----and in what language?

 

[Bonzi]

Bones brings an excellent and subtle point -- why would a creator need to be an authoritarian? That's kind of closing yourself into a conceptual box. The Goddess (concept) does not judge, condemn, reward, punish, promise, deny or take sides in battle; She simply Is.

Seems obvious to me the idea of "God" as stern authoritarian father figure ready to shove anybody into the fire pit who doesn't kowtow to His Divine Insecurities, well that doesn't make a whole lot of sense if He's a creator that can do anything. OTOH if you consider that concept to be a proxy contrived by human authoritarians ready to shove anybody into the fire pit who doesn't kowtow to their insecurities, then it starts to make, pun intended, a Hell of a lot more sense as to not only its origins but its purpose.

And as soon as you hear some zealot yelp about "God is on our side" or "Holy War", no doubt about that purpose remains. It's abundantly clear what's going on.

God is authoritative (per our human definition) meaning, he's the Creator, the all knowing, all power, ever being and ever present "person" - and thus, by default, the Authority.

People that "use" God for their own purposes will ALSO answer to him.

God wants RELATIONSHIP with us.
You can only have a relationship with someone you know.....

Assuming "God" is this "Creator" .............. why would "he" ---- and I've never gotten an answer to the question, wassup with the "he" --- be so insecure as to need such relationships? All he's gotta do is create one. That's kind of what you do when you're in the Creator business -- create stuff.

That's why he created us. For relationship, a FREE WILL relationship.

I'll tell you like I have told others, I don't profess to have all the answers, I'm not a Biblical scholar or a Theologian, I'm only a witness to my own faith.

Regarding relationships, I don't know if it's a want or a need, I can't answer for God, but he's GOD!
What more do you really need to know?

You know how you don't want to do something, so you look for every reason NOT to do it?
Or, if you just don't want to like someone you look for every single flaw?
This is how it is with people that don't WANT to believe there is a God, they nit pick and over-analyze, they TRY to look for reasons to not believe - why?

Because it's human nature to NOT want to obey or be submissive to anyone!

Everyone wants to do "what is right in their own minds" (this is referenced in the Bible many times, over and over again... especially in the Old Testament)

And people view obedience and submission as "negatives" - but God loves you PERFECTLY and wants what is BEST for you!

 

[RodISHI]

Semper Fidelis (always faithful) to God

This one is why hubby ate a lil' dirt. We had a discussion which turned heated months before. I told him my absolute trust belong to God and God alone. I was fed up with some stuff on his part and told God "please help him because I don't know what else to do". Simple prayer answered and he now says "Don't ever get jealous of God for if you do you may be eating dirt".

 

[Pogo]

Interesting answers. Growing up RC and for 40 years living as a very believing RC, rosary rattler even, since my further study of the OT and ancient history, of which I had no time to embark on before the age of 40ish, I yet believe in a higher power, I guess that is ingrained in me,

But I believe the bible is not the word of God BUT man, and their culture, and based on the study of the heavens and myths, copied from other religions, Egyptian, Persian, Sumerian, Roman and even Greek philosophy , I do believe a tribe such as the Hebrews were outshoots of Egyptians, (the lepers) and even the Canaanites and I do believe that some of the battles they talk about did happen as described. Also we have astrology in it , ever hear As above so below? and I see a marked contrast of the OT (violence) and the NT (peaceful submission) , and what lead me on this path, is when I asked myself Why are most Jews atheist and also, the religion mine (RC-Christianity) was supposedly based on and yet most of them (Jews ) were and are atheist..

I mean we need to be realistic, all cultures have their God and they have for years.

Also in Christianity , Who is the Father, certainty not Yahweh?

Penelope is language impaired----but not as a manifestation of a neurologic injury (as in stroke or trauma or even developemental anomaly------just ordinary stupidity. I will translate >>>>

I, Penelope---was at one time a mindless RC----but then past the age of 40, (as opposed to the normal child who reaches the cognitive level of complex operations by about 12) I realized that Jesus was jewish. The revelation knocked my catholic socks off-----as the earliest lessons of my life included the "FACT" that jews are evil and have more money than does the "christian" god. It was a spiritual crisis. The only remnant of my early "spiritual" education that remains in my heart is ---**)) HATRED FOR DA JOOOOS ((** complicated by my unwarranted belief that I understand the contents of a book I never read and would not understand it if I tried. So I resorted to propaganda jibberish that ""seemed"" logical to my scrambled perverted mind. My new SPIRITUAL quest is----SPREADING THE GOSPEL-----which is ----Jesus was not a jew. It is an interesting idea first promulgated by a person so perverse in his actions and believe that Christian scholars DENY that he ever actually converted to Christianity------(to wit---Constantine)

What a bizarre and disjointed post. Even after reformatting to readability I have no clue what its point is.

I too was indoctrinated into RC and started rejecting it as soon as it started to make its case (specifically on "original sin", age 5). That was enough to let me know this was not gonna be a one-stop shopping experience and further investigation would be required (and that the penguins weren't gonna be any help in it). But the fact of Jesus being a Jew never impressed me beyond any other meaningless trivia such as Nero playing a lyre and not a fiddle. It simply has no value.

I don't think I even knew any Jews growing up, or if I did wasn't aware of them. Not sure if I can imagine a piece of trivia any more meaningless.

Especially considering that all we know about Jesus, if he existed at all, has been third-hand mythology written down decades after (and edited centuries after, per your ref to Constantine) he was gone.

 

[Bonzi]

Why would He? He laid down the rules, you play accordingly. You fuck it up, you try it over and over again until you "get it." That's that simple. You are rich and do not take care of the poor, you just fucked it up. You lie, you just fucked it up. You are hungry for power over others, you just fucked it up…. and on and on….
…I am not "God"… I don't mind to "wanting relationship.."

You know ... you're cute... .....

... but ... it's not about following rules.
It's the OPPOSITE of that! It's about giving yourself over to God.
Surrender!

 

[Darkwind]

i believe in a goddess who does not need me to witness or try to convert others to her ways

The God of the universe speaks to you with authority, but not as a salesman or bully................

There is no "god" as perceived by theists; the voice of arrogance and authority is your own.

amusing....Monkeys feel the same way.

 

[irosie91]

Bones brings an excellent and subtle point -- why would a creator need to be an authoritarian? That's kind of closing yourself into a conceptual box. The Goddess (concept) does not judge, condemn, reward, punish, promise, deny or take sides in battle; She simply Is.

Seems obvious to me the idea of "God" as stern authoritarian father figure ready to shove anybody into the fire pit who doesn't kowtow to His Divine Insecurities, well that doesn't make a whole lot of sense if He's a creator that can do anything. OTOH if you consider that concept to be a proxy contrived by human authoritarians ready to shove anybody into the fire pit who doesn't kowtow to their insecurities, then it starts to make, pun intended, a Hell of a lot more sense as to not only its origins but its purpose.

And as soon as you hear some zealot yelp about "God is on our side" or "Holy War", no doubt about that purpose remains. It's abundantly clear what's going on.

God is authoritative (per our human definition) meaning, he's the Creator, the all knowing, all power, ever being and ever present "person" - and thus, by default, the Authority.

People that "use" God for their own purposes will ALSO answer to him.

God wants RELATIONSHIP with us.
You can only have a relationship with someone you know.....

Assuming "God" is this "Creator" .............. why would "he" ---- and I've never gotten an answer to the question, wassup with the "he" --- be so insecure as to need such relationships? All he's gotta do is create one. That's kind of what you do when you're in the Creator business -- create stuff.

That's why he created us. For relationship, a FREE WILL relationship.

I'll tell you like I have told others, I don't profess to have all the answers, I'm not a Biblical scholar or a Theologian, I'm only a witness to my own faith.

Regarding relationships, I don't know if it's a want or a need, I can't answer for God, but he's GOD!
What more do you really need to know?

You know how you don't want to do something, so you look for every reason NOT to do it?
Or, if you just don't want to like someone you look for every single flaw?
This is how it is with people that don't WANT to believe there is a God, they nit pick and over-analyze, they TRY to look for reasons to not believe - why?

Because it's human nature to NOT want to obey or be submissive to anyone!

Everyone wants to do "what is right in their own minds" (this is referenced in the Bible many times, over and over again... especially in the Old Testament)

And people view obedience and submission as "negatives" - but God loves you PERFECTLY and wants what is BEST for you!

****That's why he created us.
For relationship,
a FREE WILL relationship.****

The above correctly reflects the
jewish concept of "G-D"

 

[Pogo]

That's why he created us. For relationship, a FREE WILL relationship.

Circular reasoning. You didn't address the question. The question, again, is "why would a creator need that"? Doesn't pass the smell test.

Regarding relationships, I don't know if it's a want or a need, I can't answer for God, but he's GOD!
What more do you really need to know?

Everything, because it doesn't add up. This is more circular reasoning.
It looks like this:

​

-- and that's a failed reasoning. Notice the circle is closed.

You know how you don't want to do something, so you look for every reason NOT to do it?
Or, if you just don't want to like someone you look for every single flaw?
This is how it is with people that don't WANT to believe there is a God, they nit pick and over-analyze, they TRY to look for reasons to not believe - why?

On the contrary, I seek positives, not negatives. And I haven't been supplied any. Therefore the case isn't made, and we revert to the state before the concept was presented, where that concept does not exist.

It's pretty basic -- nothing exists where there's no evidence of it. This computer does not exist, except I can feel my fingers on the keyboard and see the words pop up; therefore this computer DOES exist.

Because it's human nature to NOT want to obey or be submissive to anyone!

Aye, or to put it the opposite way, it's human nature to seek freedom from being under the thumb of some external power.

------ So why invent one?

Well I'll tell you why. Because if you invent one and declare yourself the high priest/shaman/mucketymuck thereof, you get to control people. Not in any ethereal spiritual plane, but right here in the real world.

Everyone wants to do "what is right in their own minds" (this is referenced in the Bible many times, over and over again... especially in the Old Testament)

And people view obedience and submission as "negatives" - but God loves you PERFECTLY and wants what is BEST for you!

I'll leave this elephant in the room to my fellow Irish Catholic:

​

The sarcasm makes far more sense to me than the concept it lampoons.

 

[irosie91]

Interesting answers. Growing up RC and for 40 years living as a very believing RC, rosary rattler even, since my further study of the OT and ancient history, of which I had no time to embark on before the age of 40ish, I yet believe in a higher power, I guess that is ingrained in me,

But I believe the bible is not the word of God BUT man, and their culture, and based on the study of the heavens and myths, copied from other religions, Egyptian, Persian, Sumerian, Roman and even Greek philosophy , I do believe a tribe such as the Hebrews were outshoots of Egyptians, (the lepers) and even the Canaanites and I do believe that some of the battles they talk about did happen as described. Also we have astrology in it , ever hear As above so below? and I see a marked contrast of the OT (violence) and the NT (peaceful submission) , and what lead me on this path, is when I asked myself Why are most Jews atheist and also, the religion mine (RC-Christianity) was supposedly based on and yet most of them (Jews ) were and are atheist..

I mean we need to be realistic, all cultures have their God and they have for years.

Also in Christianity , Who is the Father, certainty not Yahweh?

Penelope is language impaired----but not as a manifestation of a neurologic injury (as in stroke or trauma or even developemental anomaly------just ordinary stupidity. I will translate >>>>

I, Penelope---was at one time a mindless RC----but then past the age of 40, (as opposed to the normal child who reaches the cognitive level of complex operations by about 12) I realized that Jesus was jewish. The revelation knocked my catholic socks off-----as the earliest lessons of my life included the "FACT" that jews are evil and have more money than does the "christian" god. It was a spiritual crisis. The only remnant of my early "spiritual" education that remains in my heart is ---**)) HATRED FOR DA JOOOOS ((** complicated by my unwarranted belief that I understand the contents of a book I never read and would not understand it if I tried. So I resorted to propaganda jibberish that ""seemed"" logical to my scrambled perverted mind. My new SPIRITUAL quest is----SPREADING THE GOSPEL-----which is ----Jesus was not a jew. It is an interesting idea first promulgated by a person so perverse in his actions and believe that Christian scholars DENY that he ever actually converted to Christianity------(to wit---Constantine)

What a bizarre and disjointed post. Even after reformatting to readability I have no clue what its point is.

I too was indoctrinated into RC and started rejecting it as soon as it started to make its case (specifically on "original sin", age 5). That was enough to let me know this was not gonna be a one-stop shopping experience and further investigation would be required (and that the penguins weren't gonna be any help in it). But the fact of Jesus being a Jew never impressed me beyond any other meaningless trivia such as Nero playing a lyre and not a fiddle. It simply has no value.

I don't think I even knew any Jews growing up, or if I did wasn't aware of them. Not sure if I can imagine a piece of trivia any more meaningless.

Especially considering that all we know about Jesus, if he existed at all, has been third-hand mythology written down decades after (and edited centuries after, per your ref to Constantine) he was gone.

I do not believe that the NT was altered in any significant way AFTER ----if not Constantine---then JUSTIN which was NOT centuries later-----in fact, not even a century. It is not entirely illogical that the fact that Jesus was jew would be meaningless to you-----catholics in my
childhood (we probably came out of the same era) had no idea
what a "jew" is-----it might just as well be a hindu or a martian---back
then -----in the OZZIE AND HARRIET era.------but always something---
in the catholic school Kids' minds----something dark and sinister. Depends on where in the USA you lived ----catholic kids in my childhood began to realize that there are jews in the world only
after Pope John XXIII made an issue of the fact. There was a large
catholic grammar school in my town-----virtuall all of "them" attended till they either got thrown out ---or the 8th grade-----only the very best
went to the somewhat distant catholic high school and lots of them
stayed dim My college---was near a catholic priest prep. The crème of the catholic high schools went there----they were a bit clueless too.

 

[Bonzi]

"why would a creator need that"?

I'm not the Creator. In short, I don't know. Is it important to know in order for you to believe in him?
May he just WANTED it (not need) - possible? your thoughts on that? If he just WANTED it, would it make a difference in your mind?

 

[RodISHI]

That's why he created us. For relationship, a FREE WILL relationship.

Circular reasoning. You didn't address the question. The question, again, is "why would a creator need that"? Doesn't pass the smell test.

Regarding relationships, I don't know if it's a want or a need, I can't answer for God, but he's GOD!
What more do you really need to know?

Everything, because it doesn't add up. This is more circular reasoning.
It looks like this:

​

-- and that's a failed reasoning. Notice the circle is closed.

You know how you don't want to do something, so you look for every reason NOT to do it?
Or, if you just don't want to like someone you look for every single flaw?
This is how it is with people that don't WANT to believe there is a God, they nit pick and over-analyze, they TRY to look for reasons to not believe - why?

On the contrary, I seek positives, not negatives. And I haven't been supplied any. Therefore the case isn't made, and we revert to the state before the concept was presented, where that concept does not exist.

It's pretty basic -- nothing exists where there's no evidence of it. This computer does not exist, except I can feel my fingers on the keyboard and see the words pop up; therefore this computer DOES exist.

Because it's human nature to NOT want to obey or be submissive to anyone!

Aye, or to put it the opposite way, it's human nature to seek freedom from being under the thumb of some external power.

------ So why invent one?

Well I'll tell you why. Because if you invent one and declare yourself the high priest/shaman/mucketymuck, you get to control people.

Everyone wants to do "what is right in their own minds" (this is referenced in the Bible many times, over and over again... especially in the Old Testament)

And people view obedience and submission as "negatives" - but God loves you PERFECTLY and wants what is BEST for you!

I'll leave this elephant in the room to my fellow Irish Catholic:

​

The sarcasm makes far more sense to me than the concept it lampoons.

Pogo do you have children?

 

[irosie91]

"why would a creator need that"?

I'm not the Creator. In short, I don't know. Is it important to know in order for you to believe in him?
May he just WANTED it (not need) - possible? your thoughts on that? If he just WANTED it, would it make a difference in your mind?

the question is not easy-----why did the man who created a sublimely
fine ARTISTICALLY done clay pot------create that pot?-----

 

[Bonzi]

It's pretty basic -- nothing exists where there's no evidence of it. This computer does not exist, except I can feel my fingers on the keyboard and see the words pop up; therefore this computer DOES exist.

According to your rules, precepts and experiences.
And you have the free will to choose to go by that.
I can tell you, God is VERY real for those who experience him.
How can you know that he doesn't provide "real" proof when you don't have a relationship with Him?
You are just not being provided the proof YOU want on YOUR terms.

 

[RodISHI]

"why would a creator need that"?

I'm not the Creator. In short, I don't know. Is it important to know in order for you to believe in him?
May he just WANTED it (not need) - possible? your thoughts on that? If he just WANTED it, would it make a difference in your mind?

the question is not easy-----why did the man who created a sublimely
fine ARTISTICALLY done clay pot------create that pot?-----

I sculpt along with paint and so forth. Not for cash mind you we would have starved long ago, it is just because I love to do it.

 

[Bonzi]

Aye, or to put it the opposite way, it's human nature to seek freedom from being under the thumb of some external power.

------ So why invent one?

Well I'll tell you why. Because if you invent one and declare yourself the high priest/shaman/mucketymuck, you get to control people

Oh wow hun, this is wrong on so many levels...

There are those who do use God to their advantage, for power and gain.
RELIGIONS have been "invented" to do what you said above.

But you are not seeing GOD. Like Darkwind said earlier, God is not Church. God is not even RELIGION....

 

[Pogo]

Interesting answers. Growing up RC and for 40 years living as a very believing RC, rosary rattler even, since my further study of the OT and ancient history, of which I had no time to embark on before the age of 40ish, I yet believe in a higher power, I guess that is ingrained in me,

But I believe the bible is not the word of God BUT man, and their culture, and based on the study of the heavens and myths, copied from other religions, Egyptian, Persian, Sumerian, Roman and even Greek philosophy , I do believe a tribe such as the Hebrews were outshoots of Egyptians, (the lepers) and even the Canaanites and I do believe that some of the battles they talk about did happen as described. Also we have astrology in it , ever hear As above so below? and I see a marked contrast of the OT (violence) and the NT (peaceful submission) , and what lead me on this path, is when I asked myself Why are most Jews atheist and also, the religion mine (RC-Christianity) was supposedly based on and yet most of them (Jews ) were and are atheist..

I mean we need to be realistic, all cultures have their God and they have for years.

Also in Christianity , Who is the Father, certainty not Yahweh?

Penelope is language impaired----but not as a manifestation of a neurologic injury (as in stroke or trauma or even developemental anomaly------just ordinary stupidity. I will translate >>>>

I, Penelope---was at one time a mindless RC----but then past the age of 40, (as opposed to the normal child who reaches the cognitive level of complex operations by about 12) I realized that Jesus was jewish. The revelation knocked my catholic socks off-----as the earliest lessons of my life included the "FACT" that jews are evil and have more money than does the "christian" god. It was a spiritual crisis. The only remnant of my early "spiritual" education that remains in my heart is ---**)) HATRED FOR DA JOOOOS ((** complicated by my unwarranted belief that I understand the contents of a book I never read and would not understand it if I tried. So I resorted to propaganda jibberish that ""seemed"" logical to my scrambled perverted mind. My new SPIRITUAL quest is----SPREADING THE GOSPEL-----which is ----Jesus was not a jew. It is an interesting idea first promulgated by a person so perverse in his actions and believe that Christian scholars DENY that he ever actually converted to Christianity------(to wit---Constantine)

What a bizarre and disjointed post. Even after reformatting to readability I have no clue what its point is.

I too was indoctrinated into RC and started rejecting it as soon as it started to make its case (specifically on "original sin", age 5). That was enough to let me know this was not gonna be a one-stop shopping experience and further investigation would be required (and that the penguins weren't gonna be any help in it). But the fact of Jesus being a Jew never impressed me beyond any other meaningless trivia such as Nero playing a lyre and not a fiddle. It simply has no value.

I don't think I even knew any Jews growing up, or if I did wasn't aware of them. Not sure if I can imagine a piece of trivia any more meaningless.

Especially considering that all we know about Jesus, if he existed at all, has been third-hand mythology written down decades after (and edited centuries after, per your ref to Constantine) he was gone.

I do not believe that the NT was altered in any significant way AFTER ----if not Constantine---then JUSTIN which was NOT centuries later-----in fact, not even a century. It is not entirely illogical that the fact that Jesus was jew would be meaningless to you-----catholics in my
childhood (we probably came out of the same era) had no idea
what a "jew" is-----it might just as well be a hindu or a martian---back
then -----in the OZZIE AND HARRIET era.------but always something---
in the catholic school Kids' minds----something dark and sinister. Depends on where in the USA you lived ----catholic kids in my childhood began to realize that there are jews in the world only
after Pope John XXIII made an issue of the fact. There was a large
catholic grammar school in my town-----virtuall all of "them" attended till they either got thrown out ---or the 8th grade-----only the very best
went to the somewhat distant catholic high school and lots of them
stayed dim My college---was near a catholic priest prep. The crème of the catholic high schools went there----they were a bit clueless too.

Speak for yourself. I never heard the concept of "Jew" as any kind of negative -- or really as anything other than a vague cultural icon -- until I grew up and started traipsing through the world and the rest of the bizarre concepts in some corners that I had no idea existed. It certainly wasn't any part of my childhood, including Catholic school. There was simply no such thing.

Bigotry is a bizarre psychology. It becomes especially obvious when it contains something one was never indoctrinated with from childhood.

 

[Pogo]

I'm not the Creator. In short, I don't know. Is it important to know in order for you to believe in him?

It is, because the concept was not presented to me by him --- it was presented to me by other humans. So I need it to make some kind of sense, otherwise I'm going to suspect those other humans either didn't think it through, or have ulterior motives. I'm certainly not going to take their word for it.

May he just WANTED it (not need) - possible? your thoughts on that? If he just WANTED it, would it make a difference in your mind?

Again, we did this before --- if a Creator wants something.... he creates it. He doesn't need somebody else to supply it. That's what makes him a Creator. If he can't do that, then how is he a Creator?

 

[irosie91]

Interesting answers. Growing up RC and for 40 years living as a very believing RC, rosary rattler even, since my further study of the OT and ancient history, of which I had no time to embark on before the age of 40ish, I yet believe in a higher power, I guess that is ingrained in me,

But I believe the bible is not the word of God BUT man, and their culture, and based on the study of the heavens and myths, copied from other religions, Egyptian, Persian, Sumerian, Roman and even Greek philosophy , I do believe a tribe such as the Hebrews were outshoots of Egyptians, (the lepers) and even the Canaanites and I do believe that some of the battles they talk about did happen as described. Also we have astrology in it , ever hear As above so below? and I see a marked contrast of the OT (violence) and the NT (peaceful submission) , and what lead me on this path, is when I asked myself Why are most Jews atheist and also, the religion mine (RC-Christianity) was supposedly based on and yet most of them (Jews ) were and are atheist..

I mean we need to be realistic, all cultures have their God and they have for years.

Also in Christianity , Who is the Father, certainty not Yahweh?

Penelope is language impaired----but not as a manifestation of a neurologic injury (as in stroke or trauma or even developemental anomaly------just ordinary stupidity. I will translate >>>>

I, Penelope---was at one time a mindless RC----but then past the age of 40, (as opposed to the normal child who reaches the cognitive level of complex operations by about 12) I realized that Jesus was jewish. The revelation knocked my catholic socks off-----as the earliest lessons of my life included the "FACT" that jews are evil and have more money than does the "christian" god. It was a spiritual crisis. The only remnant of my early "spiritual" education that remains in my heart is ---**)) HATRED FOR DA JOOOOS ((** complicated by my unwarranted belief that I understand the contents of a book I never read and would not understand it if I tried. So I resorted to propaganda jibberish that ""seemed"" logical to my scrambled perverted mind. My new SPIRITUAL quest is----SPREADING THE GOSPEL-----which is ----Jesus was not a jew. It is an interesting idea first promulgated by a person so perverse in his actions and believe that Christian scholars DENY that he ever actually converted to Christianity------(to wit---Constantine)

What a bizarre and disjointed post. Even after reformatting to readability I have no clue what its point is.

I too was indoctrinated into RC and started rejecting it as soon as it started to make its case (specifically on "original sin", age 5). That was enough to let me know this was not gonna be a one-stop shopping experience and further investigation would be required (and that the penguins weren't gonna be any help in it). But the fact of Jesus being a Jew never impressed me beyond any other meaningless trivia such as Nero playing a lyre and not a fiddle. It simply has no value.

I don't think I even knew any Jews growing up, or if I did wasn't aware of them. Not sure if I can imagine a piece of trivia any more meaningless.

Especially considering that all we know about Jesus, if he existed at all, has been third-hand mythology written down decades after (and edited centuries after, per your ref to Constantine) he was gone.

I do not believe that the NT was altered in any significant way AFTER ----if not Constantine---then JUSTIN which was NOT centuries later-----in fact, not even a century. It is not entirely illogical that the fact that Jesus was jew would be meaningless to you-----catholics in my
childhood (we probably came out of the same era) had no idea
what a "jew" is-----it might just as well be a hindu or a martian---back
then -----in the OZZIE AND HARRIET era.------but always something---
in the catholic school Kids' minds----something dark and sinister. Depends on where in the USA you lived ----catholic kids in my childhood began to realize that there are jews in the world only
after Pope John XXIII made an issue of the fact. There was a large
catholic grammar school in my town-----virtuall all of "them" attended till they either got thrown out ---or the 8th grade-----only the very best
went to the somewhat distant catholic high school and lots of them
stayed dim My college---was near a catholic priest prep. The crème of the catholic high schools went there----they were a bit clueless too.

Speak for yourself. I never heard the concept of "Jew" as any kind of negative -- or really as anything other than a cultural icon -- until I grew up and started traipsing through the world and the rest of the bizarre concepts in some corners that I had no idea existed. It certainly wasn't any part of my childhood, including Catholic school. There was simply no such thing.

even more interesting-----Of course I have no idea to what CORNERS you traipsed but either it was not the USA or you were a bit unconscious. It was not Ireland----not England, It might have been some country in south east asia where the missionary nuns ran
a grammar school. Such are the only kinds of people I have ever known who grew up free of the JOOOO BUGABOO-----it certainly was not Texas

 

[Pogo]

Interesting answers. Growing up RC and for 40 years living as a very believing RC, rosary rattler even, since my further study of the OT and ancient history, of which I had no time to embark on before the age of 40ish, I yet believe in a higher power, I guess that is ingrained in me,

But I believe the bible is not the word of God BUT man, and their culture, and based on the study of the heavens and myths, copied from other religions, Egyptian, Persian, Sumerian, Roman and even Greek philosophy , I do believe a tribe such as the Hebrews were outshoots of Egyptians, (the lepers) and even the Canaanites and I do believe that some of the battles they talk about did happen as described. Also we have astrology in it , ever hear As above so below? and I see a marked contrast of the OT (violence) and the NT (peaceful submission) , and what lead me on this path, is when I asked myself Why are most Jews atheist and also, the religion mine (RC-Christianity) was supposedly based on and yet most of them (Jews ) were and are atheist..

I mean we need to be realistic, all cultures have their God and they have for years.

Also in Christianity , Who is the Father, certainty not Yahweh?

Penelope is language impaired----but not as a manifestation of a neurologic injury (as in stroke or trauma or even developemental anomaly------just ordinary stupidity. I will translate >>>>

I, Penelope---was at one time a mindless RC----but then past the age of 40, (as opposed to the normal child who reaches the cognitive level of complex operations by about 12) I realized that Jesus was jewish. The revelation knocked my catholic socks off-----as the earliest lessons of my life included the "FACT" that jews are evil and have more money than does the "christian" god. It was a spiritual crisis. The only remnant of my early "spiritual" education that remains in my heart is ---**)) HATRED FOR DA JOOOOS ((** complicated by my unwarranted belief that I understand the contents of a book I never read and would not understand it if I tried. So I resorted to propaganda jibberish that ""seemed"" logical to my scrambled perverted mind. My new SPIRITUAL quest is----SPREADING THE GOSPEL-----which is ----Jesus was not a jew. It is an interesting idea first promulgated by a person so perverse in his actions and believe that Christian scholars DENY that he ever actually converted to Christianity------(to wit---Constantine)

What a bizarre and disjointed post. Even after reformatting to readability I have no clue what its point is.

I too was indoctrinated into RC and started rejecting it as soon as it started to make its case (specifically on "original sin", age 5). That was enough to let me know this was not gonna be a one-stop shopping experience and further investigation would be required (and that the penguins weren't gonna be any help in it). But the fact of Jesus being a Jew never impressed me beyond any other meaningless trivia such as Nero playing a lyre and not a fiddle. It simply has no value.

I don't think I even knew any Jews growing up, or if I did wasn't aware of them. Not sure if I can imagine a piece of trivia any more meaningless.

Especially considering that all we know about Jesus, if he existed at all, has been third-hand mythology written down decades after (and edited centuries after, per your ref to Constantine) he was gone.

I do not believe that the NT was altered in any significant way AFTER ----if not Constantine---then JUSTIN which was NOT centuries later-----in fact, not even a century. It is not entirely illogical that the fact that Jesus was jew would be meaningless to you-----catholics in my
childhood (we probably came out of the same era) had no idea
what a "jew" is-----it might just as well be a hindu or a martian---back
then -----in the OZZIE AND HARRIET era.------but always something---
in the catholic school Kids' minds----something dark and sinister. Depends on where in the USA you lived ----catholic kids in my childhood began to realize that there are jews in the world only
after Pope John XXIII made an issue of the fact. There was a large
catholic grammar school in my town-----virtuall all of "them" attended till they either got thrown out ---or the 8th grade-----only the very best
went to the somewhat distant catholic high school and lots of them
stayed dim My college---was near a catholic priest prep. The crème of the catholic high schools went there----they were a bit clueless too.

Speak for yourself. I never heard the concept of "Jew" as any kind of negative -- or really as anything other than a cultural icon -- until I grew up and started traipsing through the world and the rest of the bizarre concepts in some corners that I had no idea existed. It certainly wasn't any part of my childhood, including Catholic school. There was simply no such thing.

even more interesting-----Of course I have no idea to what CORNERS you traipsed but either it was not the USA or you were a bit unconscious. It was not Ireland----not England, It might have been some country in south east asia where the missionary nuns ran
a grammar school. Such are the only kinds of people I have ever known who grew up free of the JOOOO BUGABOO-----it certainly was not Texas

Pennsylvania. With regular recurring trips to the deep South where the rest of my relatives were. And in neither of those settings was "Joooo" a concept I even heard of any more than, say, "Hindooooo".

As I said speak for yourself. Perhaps it had more to do with Texas, or more correctly your specific part of Texas. It certainly wasn't part of the Baltimore Catechism or any scholastic accouterments thereof, nor did it exist among the peers, friends or family I grew up with.

I think what you're doing here is ruminating on the stronger points of your experiences and projecting the assumption that, if you had these experiences as a young Catholic, therefore every young Catholic had them. That's not a safe assumption.

 

[Pogo]

That's why he created us. For relationship, a FREE WILL relationship.

Circular reasoning. You didn't address the question. The question, again, is "why would a creator need that"? Doesn't pass the smell test.

Regarding relationships, I don't know if it's a want or a need, I can't answer for God, but he's GOD!
What more do you really need to know?

Everything, because it doesn't add up. This is more circular reasoning.
It looks like this:

​

-- and that's a failed reasoning. Notice the circle is closed.

You know how you don't want to do something, so you look for every reason NOT to do it?
Or, if you just don't want to like someone you look for every single flaw?
This is how it is with people that don't WANT to believe there is a God, they nit pick and over-analyze, they TRY to look for reasons to not believe - why?

On the contrary, I seek positives, not negatives. And I haven't been supplied any. Therefore the case isn't made, and we revert to the state before the concept was presented, where that concept does not exist.

It's pretty basic -- nothing exists where there's no evidence of it. This computer does not exist, except I can feel my fingers on the keyboard and see the words pop up; therefore this computer DOES exist.

Because it's human nature to NOT want to obey or be submissive to anyone!

Aye, or to put it the opposite way, it's human nature to seek freedom from being under the thumb of some external power.

------ So why invent one?

Well I'll tell you why. Because if you invent one and declare yourself the high priest/shaman/mucketymuck, you get to control people.

Everyone wants to do "what is right in their own minds" (this is referenced in the Bible many times, over and over again... especially in the Old Testament)

And people view obedience and submission as "negatives" - but God loves you PERFECTLY and wants what is BEST for you!

I'll leave this elephant in the room to my fellow Irish Catholic:

​

The sarcasm makes far more sense to me than the concept it lampoons.

Pogo do you have children?

I do not. Why?

I do have a grandniece I'm especially fond of. Would you like to see her?

Meet Kayla