Do You Believe All ''Men'' Are Created Equal?

[Kat]

Right, and the meaning of those words in the constitution, that "all men are created equal", was intended to convey equality of all people under the law as provided by the constitution...Regardless of what Jefferson may have done with his slaves

No the meaning of that phrase was intended to assert the rights of free white men with property. That's a fact.

, the constitution stood the test of time

The constitution FAILED The test of time. MISERABLY. First off a duly ratified amendment was illegally barred from becoming law. (13th amendment). Second the Civil War itself was entirely unconstitutional. Third ever since then the SC has undermined that constitution so many times and with such erosionary effect that the bill of rights is barely intact.

and provided the opportunity for equality under the law to be asserted for all people.

which has never happened and never will.

Some men may be better than others at some things, but regardless of whatever circumstances which may find one man measuring less than another, the constitution provides that no man (person) is supposed to be treated unequally under the law.

Well in theory, but not in practice. In practice every man and woman is treated unequally under the law.

See "driving while black" or "ponzi scheming while white" for just two of billions of examples.

NOT talking about how people are treated. It has already been established that all people are NOT treated equal.

 

[Kat]

OOPS..I don't see in the Constitution where it says ''All men are created equal''.

U.S. CONSTITUTION

 

[DiveCon]

"All mean are created equal..." is part of the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

Sorry, I misspoke...regarding Jefferson and the Declaration and then the Constitution also addresses the issue of equality under the law in the 14th amendment:

No you didn't.

"No language is more worthy of frequent and thoughtful consideration than these words of Mr. Justice Matthews, speaking for this court, in Yick Wo v. Hopkins,118 U.S. 356, 369: 'When we consider the nature and the theory of our institutions of government, the principles upon which they are supposed to rest, and review the history of their development, we are constrained to conclude that they do not mean to leave room for the play and action of purely personal and arbitrary power.' The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.' While such declarations of principles may not have the force of organic law, or be made the basis of judicial decision as to the limits of right and duty, and while in all cases reference must be had to the organic law of the nation for such limits, yet the latter is but the body and the letter of which the former is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. No duty rests more imperatively upon the courts than the enforcement of those constitutional provisions intended to secure that equality of rights which is the foundation of free government."

COTTING v. KANSAS CITY STOCK YARDS COMPANY AND STATE KANSAS., 22 S. Ct. 30, 183 U.S. 79 (U.S. 11/25/1901)

.

except that is from a court case where they took parts of BOTH the US COnstitution and the DoI
those words only occur in the DoI, not in the US Constitution

 

[Contumacious]

Right, and the meaning of those words in the constitution, that "all men are created equal", was intended to convey equality of all people under the law as provided by the constitution...Regardless of what Jefferson may have done with his slaves

No the meaning of that phrase was intended to assert the rights of free white men with property. That's a fact.

Identify by article section and clause the Constitutional proviso which states that the only rights secured thereunder are those belonging to Caucasians.

, the constitution stood the test of time

The constitution FAILED The test of time. MISERABLY. First off a duly ratified amendment was illegally barred from becoming law. (13th amendment).

Are you referring to the military draft?

Second the Civil War itself was entirely unconstitutional.

Were the Southern states sovereign or were they just mere provinces?

Third ever since then the SC has undermined that constitution so many times and with such erosionary effect that the bill of rights is barely intact.

True, but that is not a problem with the Constitution, the problem are the scumbags who are supposed to enforce it.

 

[loosecannon]

Right, and the meaning of those words in the constitution, that "all men are created equal", was intended to convey equality of all people under the law as provided by the constitution...Regardless of what Jefferson may have done with his slaves

No the meaning of that phrase was intended to assert the rights of free white men with property. That's a fact.





The constitution FAILED The test of time. MISERABLY. First off a duly ratified amendment was illegally barred from becoming law. (13th amendment). Second the Civil War itself was entirely unconstitutional. Third ever since then the SC has undermined that constitution so many times and with such erosionary effect that the bill of rights is barely intact.



which has never happened and never will.

Some men may be better than others at some things, but regardless of whatever circumstances which may find one man measuring less than another, the constitution provides that no man (person) is supposed to be treated unequally under the law.

Well in theory, but not in practice. In practice every man and woman is treated unequally under the law.

See "driving while black" or "ponzi scheming while white" for just two of billions of examples.

NOT talking about how people are treated. It has already been established that all people are NOT treated equal.

I wasn't responding to you. I really don't care what you were talking about about or what you believe has been established.

People weren't created equal either.

That is self evident. Equality is a social fiction. There is no such thing except as an illusory idea.

 

[Contumacious]

OOPS..I don't see in the Constitution where it says ''All men are created equal''.

U.S. CONSTITUTION

It was incorporated here:

Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

.

 

[loosecannon]

Right, and the meaning of those words in the constitution, that "all men are created equal", was intended to convey equality of all people under the law as provided by the constitution...Regardless of what Jefferson may have done with his slaves

No the meaning of that phrase was intended to assert the rights of free white men with property. That's a fact.

Identify by article section and clause the Constitutional proviso which states that the only rights secured thereunder are those belonging to Caucasians.

I was talking about slaves. The constitution didn't have to specify the rights of slaveholders and esp not by ethnicity because the states had already ratified British common law as the legal structure and code of the states.

There were white slaves as well. But not nearly as many and all were indentured. Black slaves were hereditary slaves and the constitution said not one word rejecting that premise.

Second the Civil War itself was entirely unconstitutional.

Were the Southern states sovereign or were they just mere provinces?

they were states who were as entitled to seceding from the union as they were entitled to joining it.

Third ever since then the SC has undermined that constitution so many times and with such erosionary effect that the bill of rights is barely intact.

True, but that is not a problem with the Constitution, the problem are the scumbags who are supposed to enforce it.

But the effect is to undermine that constitution, which is my point. The constitution which might have intended to ensure the equal rights of all free white men with property is no longer in effect. Duh.

 

[Kat]

OOPS..I don't see in the Constitution where it says ''All men are created equal''.

U.S. CONSTITUTION

It was incorporated here:

Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

.

It says ''created equal''?

 

[loosecannon]

OOPS..I don't see in the Constitution where it says ''All men are created equal''.

U.S. CONSTITUTION

It was incorporated here:

Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

.

No it wasn't enumerated there.

It was enumerated in the 14 th amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

 

[loosecannon]

It says ''created equal''?

how can any legal body or social authority credibly assert that men and/or women were created equal?

It is like asking a statue to proclaim that all men were created identical.

The question itself is absurd. Is all sex created Pizza?

 

[Kat]

It says ''created equal''?

how can any legal body or social authority credibly assert that men and/or women were created equal?

It is like asking a statue to proclaim that all men were created identical.

The question itself is absurd. Is all sex created Pizza?

If it is absurd to you, I have a good solution. Get out of the thread.
I don't think anything concerning the Constitution, DoI or Bible is absurd.

And would you go eat something already? You must be starving with all that pizza talk.

 

[dilloduck]

My pizza is better than yours

 

[Contumacious]

OOPS..I don't see in the Constitution where it says ''All men are created equal''.

U.S. CONSTITUTION

It was incorporated here:

Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

.

It says ''created equal''?

No, it is incorporated by, the Ninth Ammendment. An excellent History of the Ninth is found here:

Patterson, Bennett B.
The Forgotten Ninth Amendment. A Call for Legislative and Judicial Recognition of Rights under Social Conditions of Today. Introduction by Roscoe Pound.
Indianapolis: The Bobbs Merrill Company, Inc., [1955]. ix, 217 pp. Reprinted 2008 by The Lawbook Exchange, Ltd. ISBN-13: 978-1-58477-820-2. ISBN-10: 1-58477-820-2. Cloth. $70.

* This provocative essay considers the historical background, meaning and effect of the Ninth Amendment, which states "the enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." Patterson feels the amendment was "forgotten" because no real purpose has been found for it. He argues that the amendment would become valuable if it was construed to incorporate the doctrine of natural law, which he ranks above constitutional rights. Moreover, this doctrine should serve to restrict federal and state power. "Whether the reader agrees with Mr. Patterson's contentions or not, the sincerity of his views cannot be gainsaid, and his treatment of the subject is stimulating and provocative. Right or wrong, his major contentions deserve evaluation by all students of Constitutional Law.": Donald J. Farage, Dickinson Law Review 60 (1955-56) 291.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yes

 

[bodecea]

In an Ideal political world yes. That quote from the Dec. of Ind. states the Ideal...that is the way the world is SUPPOSED to work politically.

 

[loosecannon]

It was incorporated here:

Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

.

It says ''created equal''?

No, it is incorporated by, the Ninth Ammendment. An excellent History of the Ninth is found here:

Patterson, Bennett B.
The Forgotten Ninth Amendment. A Call for Legislative and Judicial Recognition of Rights under Social Conditions of Today. Introduction by Roscoe Pound.
Indianapolis: The Bobbs Merrill Company, Inc., [1955]. ix, 217 pp. Reprinted 2008 by The Lawbook Exchange, Ltd. ISBN-13: 978-1-58477-820-2. ISBN-10: 1-58477-820-2. Cloth. $70.

* This provocative essay considers the historical background, meaning and effect of the Ninth Amendment, which states "the enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." Patterson feels the amendment was "forgotten" because no real purpose has been found for it. He argues that the amendment would become valuable if it was construed to incorporate the doctrine of natural law, which he ranks above constitutional rights. Moreover, this doctrine should serve to restrict federal and state power. "Whether the reader agrees with Mr. Patterson's contentions or not, the sincerity of his views cannot be gainsaid, and his treatment of the subject is stimulating and provocative. Right or wrong, his major contentions deserve evaluation by all students of Constitutional Law.": Donald J. Farage, Dickinson Law Review 60 (1955-56) 291.

Thanks. I agree with the second part of the bolded text.

I don't know that natural law has gained any real foothold in our legal codes. It was clearly a basic tenet in the DoI and US Const. But it has not amounted to much since then. Or been trampled.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The idea behind the statement isn't that we are all cut from the same cloth but that we ought all to be treated the same in terms of justice.

A lot of people mistakenly believe that "equal" is a synonym for "alike".

 

[Charles Stucker]

Yes because you put "Men" in quotes.
I interpreted that to mean we could infer that "Men" were humans, both make and female, of adult age with no past antisocial behavior deemed worthy of currently rescinding their rights, where the rights were what were equal, and those being the barest rights - equality before the law and freedom to make wise or foolish choices.
I don't restrict 'rights' based on a circumstance of birth - which is why I support relatively open immigration policies as people did not choose their parents. I do however support the right of individual states facing water shortages to restrict an influx of population which would parch their already dry lands.

 

[xÞx]

If this has been posted here, forgive me. If not yft. I have posted this poll other places, and was a bit stunned with the replies.

So, Do you believe all ''men'' are created equal? Whatever your answer, please explain..

People are not born equal in mind, body, or circumstance. Equality is the dream of the inferior (EG: the poor wish to be equal with the rich and I wish i were of equal physical fitness to a bodybuiler).

 

[xÞx]

We're talking creation here. Theology. The study of Theo.

LOL Naw. Just wondering what people think...so waht do you think. Are all men created equal?

Define:equal