Do Not Be Without a Gun

[Blues Man]

How about that lucky duck who actually got to shoot somebody?

A once in a lifetime thrill come true!

And contrary to your uninformed opinion gun owners actually show incredible restraint in the use of their firearms

So just owning a gun gives you incredible restraint? You know that's nuts, right?

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[BULLDOG]

I guess not being afraid to face the real world without being armed 24/7 might make me look like a bad ass compared to a coward that can't do that, but it's really not that big of a deal.

We'll see how tough you are when 3 thugs are kicking the shit out of you

How often do 3 thugs kick the shit out of you? Is that something that happens to you often?

It only has to happen once to do permanent damage

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it never will.

You internet shut ins don't realize that there is real violence in the world and think you're tough sitting there at your keyboard in mama's basement

I'm beginning to understand now. It happened to you once, and now you are in permanent fear that it will happen again. That seems to be the source of your cowardliness. Perhaps counseling might help. While violent incidents do happen to innocent people, that is not the normal way of things. The vast majority of folks don't experience anything like that. You're going through life with the fear that it will happen again at any time. That must be so limiting for you. I hope you can some day realize that you don't have to live in constant fear, and can see the world as it really is instead of having to always hide behind a gun.

There are a significant amount of people who live in fear for various reasons. Some because where they live, work or travel may be a high crime area. But there are other people who live in fear because they are under direct threat from a very specific source, these include domestic violence and stalking victims and/or the victims of online harassment, bullies or trolls.

Fear of random crime is different than fear that someone who has been threatening you will finally attempt to carry out their threats. And while everyone does not fall into this category, it takes more courage than you could ever imagine to decide to no longer be a victim and to make the choice to put an end to the threat once and for all if it comes to that, including accepting the legal repercussions that come with defending one's life from individuals that our legal system hasn't traditionally considered a "serious threat of violence".

I know there are people who are exactly as you describe but not everyone who arms themselves falls into that category. And truth be told, most of the people I know or associate with who carry concealed or otherwise are not living in fear, they're prepared, which goes a long way towards reducing stress, in any area of your life.

So being called a coward is like water off a ducks back to most because having the ability to end a life if necessary, in your own defense or the defense of other far eclipses any name anyone could be called. That's why the rabidly anti-gun group is the way they are. They absolutely hate that we get to make that life or death decision for ourselves.

Most gun nuts I know, and I know a lot of them, do it as a fashion statement. or a political statement. Many are just scared out of their wits by listening to right wing and NRA rhetoric that doesn't reflect reality in any way.

 

[2aguy]

We'll see how tough you are when 3 thugs are kicking the shit out of you

How often do 3 thugs kick the shit out of you? Is that something that happens to you often?

It only has to happen once to do permanent damage

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it never will.

You internet shut ins don't realize that there is real violence in the world and think you're tough sitting there at your keyboard in mama's basement

I'm beginning to understand now. It happened to you once, and now you are in permanent fear that it will happen again. That seems to be the source of your cowardliness. Perhaps counseling might help. While violent incidents do happen to innocent people, that is not the normal way of things. The vast majority of folks don't experience anything like that. You're going through life with the fear that it will happen again at any time. That must be so limiting for you. I hope you can some day realize that you don't have to live in constant fear, and can see the world as it really is instead of having to always hide behind a gun.

There are a significant amount of people who live in fear for various reasons. Some because where they live, work or travel may be a high crime area. But there are other people who live in fear because they are under direct threat from a very specific source, these include domestic violence and stalking victims and/or the victims of online harassment, bullies or trolls.

Fear of random crime is different than fear that someone who has been threatening you will finally attempt to carry out their threats. And while everyone does not fall into this category, it takes more courage than you could ever imagine to decide to no longer be a victim and to make the choice to put an end to the threat once and for all if it comes to that, including accepting the legal repercussions that come with defending one's life from individuals that our legal system hasn't traditionally considered a "serious threat of violence".

I know there are people who are exactly as you describe but not everyone who arms themselves falls into that category. And truth be told, most of the people I know or associate with who carry concealed or otherwise are not living in fear, they're prepared, which goes a long way towards reducing stress, in any area of your life.

So being called a coward is like water off a ducks back to most because having the ability to end a life if necessary, in your own defense or the defense of other far eclipses any name anyone could be called. That's why the rabidly anti-gun group is the way they are. They absolutely hate that we get to make that life or death decision for ourselves.

Most gun nuts I know, and I know a lot of them, do it as a fashion statement. or a political statement. Many are just scared out of their wits by listening to right wing and NRA rhetoric that doesn't reflect reality in any way.

The rhetoric that actually scares people is the democrat party rhetoric about banning rifles and magazines, and now, with biden, hand guns......confiscating guns, per the candidates running for President, and the desire to sue gun makers out of existence....

If you asshats would stop telling us what you really want to do, then uninformed Americans would stop knowing what you want to do....

 

[BULLDOG]

How about that lucky duck who actually got to shoot somebody?

A once in a lifetime thrill come true!

And contrary to your uninformed opinion gun owners actually show incredible restraint in the use of their firearms

So just owning a gun gives you incredible restraint? You know that's nuts, right?

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

 

[2aguy]

And contrary to your uninformed opinion gun owners actually show incredible restraint in the use of their firearms

So just owning a gun gives you incredible restraint? You know that's nuts, right?

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

the statistics show it you doofus......people with concealed carry permits have been shown to be more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than sworn police officers......and considering there are over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense, yet only 235 or so justified shootings each year....that shows how amazingly restrained gun owners are....

 

[BULLDOG]

How often do 3 thugs kick the shit out of you? Is that something that happens to you often?

It only has to happen once to do permanent damage

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it never will.

You internet shut ins don't realize that there is real violence in the world and think you're tough sitting there at your keyboard in mama's basement

I'm beginning to understand now. It happened to you once, and now you are in permanent fear that it will happen again. That seems to be the source of your cowardliness. Perhaps counseling might help. While violent incidents do happen to innocent people, that is not the normal way of things. The vast majority of folks don't experience anything like that. You're going through life with the fear that it will happen again at any time. That must be so limiting for you. I hope you can some day realize that you don't have to live in constant fear, and can see the world as it really is instead of having to always hide behind a gun.

There are a significant amount of people who live in fear for various reasons. Some because where they live, work or travel may be a high crime area. But there are other people who live in fear because they are under direct threat from a very specific source, these include domestic violence and stalking victims and/or the victims of online harassment, bullies or trolls.

Fear of random crime is different than fear that someone who has been threatening you will finally attempt to carry out their threats. And while everyone does not fall into this category, it takes more courage than you could ever imagine to decide to no longer be a victim and to make the choice to put an end to the threat once and for all if it comes to that, including accepting the legal repercussions that come with defending one's life from individuals that our legal system hasn't traditionally considered a "serious threat of violence".

I know there are people who are exactly as you describe but not everyone who arms themselves falls into that category. And truth be told, most of the people I know or associate with who carry concealed or otherwise are not living in fear, they're prepared, which goes a long way towards reducing stress, in any area of your life.

So being called a coward is like water off a ducks back to most because having the ability to end a life if necessary, in your own defense or the defense of other far eclipses any name anyone could be called. That's why the rabidly anti-gun group is the way they are. They absolutely hate that we get to make that life or death decision for ourselves.

Most gun nuts I know, and I know a lot of them, do it as a fashion statement. or a political statement. Many are just scared out of their wits by listening to right wing and NRA rhetoric that doesn't reflect reality in any way.

The rhetoric that actually scares people is the democrat party rhetoric about banning rifles and magazines, and now, with biden, hand guns......confiscating guns, per the candidates running for President, and the desire to sue gun makers out of existence....

If you asshats would stop telling us what you really want to do, then uninformed Americans would stop knowing what you want to do....

You seem to be self appointed head gun nut here. Do you know anything about the incredible restraint shown by gun owners, and why they are endowed with such incredible restraint? What is it about owning a gun that causes such?

 

[BULLDOG]

So just owning a gun gives you incredible restraint? You know that's nuts, right?

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

the statistics show it you doofus......people with concealed carry permits have been shown to be more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than sworn police officers......and considering there are over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense, yet only 235 or so justified shootings each year....that shows how amazingly restrained gun owners are....

You understand crooks and thugs own guns too, don't you Are you forgetting to include them in this mass give away of restraint?

 

[2aguy]

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

the statistics show it you doofus......people with concealed carry permits have been shown to be more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than sworn police officers......and considering there are over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense, yet only 235 or so justified shootings each year....that shows how amazingly restrained gun owners are....

You understand crooks and thugs own guns too, don't you Are you forgetting to include them in this mass give away of restraint?

They don't count because, being criminals, they do not restrain their behavior in any other situation as a normal person does...... when they are told they can't own a gun because they are a criminal, they break the law and get a gun anyway.

 

[Blues Man]

And contrary to your uninformed opinion gun owners actually show incredible restraint in the use of their firearms

So just owning a gun gives you incredible restraint? You know that's nuts, right?

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

Where did I ever say gun ownership imparts restraint

You are fabricating an argument and attributing it to me then you are arguing against your own made up arguments



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[BULLDOG]

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

the statistics show it you doofus......people with concealed carry permits have been shown to be more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than sworn police officers......and considering there are over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense, yet only 235 or so justified shootings each year....that shows how amazingly restrained gun owners are....

You understand crooks and thugs own guns too, don't you Are you forgetting to include them in this mass give away of restraint?

They don't count because, being criminals, they do not restrain their behavior in any other situation as a normal person does...... when they are told they can't own a gun because they are a criminal, they break the law and get a gun anyway.

Just to be clear, people who legally buy a gun are given the power of incredible restraint?

 

[BULLDOG]

So just owning a gun gives you incredible restraint? You know that's nuts, right?

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

Where did I ever say gun ownership imparts restraint

You are fabricating an argument and attributing it to me then you are arguing against your own made up arguments



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You said that in #155. I didn't fabricate anything. Are you so used to telling lies till you don't even notice when you do it?

 

[protectionist]

Wrong.

There’s no evidence that carrying a concealed firearm ‘reduces’ crime.

Study: Concealed Handgun Permits Don't Affect Crime Rate

I shouldn't even grant a post this idiotic the dignity of a response, but hundreds of lives were saved in the church in Texas this week, only because of carrying a concealed firearm.

Add this one more example to the thousands of others that preceded it

Get a brain job. Sheesh!

 

[protectionist]

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

Brains.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I guess not being afraid to face the real world without being armed 24/7 might make me look like a bad ass compared to a coward that can't do that, but it's really not that big of a deal.

We'll see how tough you are when 3 thugs are kicking the shit out of you

How often do 3 thugs kick the shit out of you? Is that something that happens to you often?

It only has to happen once to do permanent damage

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it never will.

You internet shut ins don't realize that there is real violence in the world and think you're tough sitting there at your keyboard in mama's basement

I'm beginning to understand now. It happened to you once, and now you are in permanent fear that it will happen again. That seems to be the source of your cowardliness. Perhaps counseling might help. While violent incidents do happen to innocent people, that is not the normal way of things. The vast majority of folks don't experience anything like that. You're going through life with the fear that it will happen again at any time. That must be so limiting for you. I hope you can some day realize that you don't have to live in constant fear, and can see the world as it really is instead of having to always hide behind a gun.

There are a significant amount of people who live in fear for various reasons. Some because where they live, work or travel may be a high crime area. But there are other people who live in fear because they are under direct threat from a very specific source, these include domestic violence and stalking victims and/or the victims of online harassment, bullies or trolls.

Fear of random crime is different than fear that someone who has been threatening you will finally attempt to carry out their threats. And while everyone does not fall into this category, it takes more courage than you could ever imagine to decide to no longer be a victim and to make the choice to put an end to the threat once and for all if it comes to that, including accepting the legal repercussions that come with defending one's life from individuals that our legal system hasn't traditionally considered a "serious threat of violence".

I know there are people who are exactly as you describe but not everyone who arms themselves falls into that category. And truth be told, most of the people I know or associate with who carry concealed or otherwise are not living in fear, they're prepared, which goes a long way towards reducing stress, in any area of your life.

So being called a coward is like water off a ducks back to most because having the ability to end a life if necessary, in your own defense or the defense of other far eclipses any name anyone could be called. That's why the rabidly anti-gun group is the way they are. They absolutely hate that we get to make that life or death decision for ourselves.

I wonder why Tax Man thinks my comment is funny.

 

[2aguy]

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

the statistics show it you doofus......people with concealed carry permits have been shown to be more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than sworn police officers......and considering there are over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense, yet only 235 or so justified shootings each year....that shows how amazingly restrained gun owners are....

You understand crooks and thugs own guns too, don't you Are you forgetting to include them in this mass give away of restraint?

They don't count because, being criminals, they do not restrain their behavior in any other situation as a normal person does...... when they are told they can't own a gun because they are a criminal, they break the law and get a gun anyway.

Just to be clear, people who legally buy a gun are given the power of incredible restraint?

Do you always mix your booze and your meds?....you really need to stop it......

 

[BULLDOG]

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

the statistics show it you doofus......people with concealed carry permits have been shown to be more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than sworn police officers......and considering there are over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense, yet only 235 or so justified shootings each year....that shows how amazingly restrained gun owners are....

You understand crooks and thugs own guns too, don't you Are you forgetting to include them in this mass give away of restraint?

They don't count because, being criminals, they do not restrain their behavior in any other situation as a normal person does...... when they are told they can't own a gun because they are a criminal, they break the law and get a gun anyway.

Just to be clear, people who legally buy a gun are given the power of incredible restraint?

Do you always mix your booze and your meds?....you really need to stop it......

Answer the question coward.

 

[Blues Man]

Where did I say that?

You read as well as you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

Where did I ever say gun ownership imparts restraint

You are fabricating an argument and attributing it to me then you are arguing against your own made up arguments



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You said that in #155. I didn't fabricate anything. Are you so used to telling lies till you don't even notice when you do it?

I never said a gun imparts restraint

I said gun owners demonstrate restraint

You really can't read very well

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[protectionist]

We'll see how tough you are when 3 thugs are kicking the shit out of you

How often do 3 thugs kick the shit out of you? Is that something that happens to you often?

It only has to happen once to do permanent damage

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it never will.

You internet shut ins don't realize that there is real violence in the world and think you're tough sitting there at your keyboard in mama's basement

I'm beginning to understand now. It happened to you once, and now you are in permanent fear that it will happen again. That seems to be the source of your cowardliness. Perhaps counseling might help. While violent incidents do happen to innocent people, that is not the normal way of things. The vast majority of folks don't experience anything like that. You're going through life with the fear that it will happen again at any time. That must be so limiting for you. I hope you can some day realize that you don't have to live in constant fear, and can see the world as it really is instead of having to always hide behind a gun.

There are a significant amount of people who live in fear for various reasons. Some because where they live, work or travel may be a high crime area. But there are other people who live in fear because they are under direct threat from a very specific source, these include domestic violence and stalking victims and/or the victims of online harassment, bullies or trolls.

Fear of random crime is different than fear that someone who has been threatening you will finally attempt to carry out their threats. And while everyone does not fall into this category, it takes more courage than you could ever imagine to decide to no longer be a victim and to make the choice to put an end to the threat once and for all if it comes to that, including accepting the legal repercussions that come with defending one's life from individuals that our legal system hasn't traditionally considered a "serious threat of violence".

I know there are people who are exactly as you describe but not everyone who arms themselves falls into that category. And truth be told, most of the people I know or associate with who carry concealed or otherwise are not living in fear, they're prepared, which goes a long way towards reducing stress, in any area of your life.

So being called a coward is like water off a ducks back to most because having the ability to end a life if necessary, in your own defense or the defense of other far eclipses any name anyone could be called. That's why the rabidly anti-gun group is the way they are. They absolutely hate that we get to make that life or death decision for ourselves.

I wonder why Tax Man thinks my comment is funny.

I just posted exactly that same question yesterday, about an OP of mine, denouncing transgender men (posing as women), and using their greater male physical strength in female sports, and shamelessly taking credit for victories

Then I noticed another "funny" rating from Taxman, but I just let it go.

 

[protectionist]

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

Where did I ever say gun ownership imparts restraint

You are fabricating an argument and attributing it to me then you are arguing against your own made up arguments



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You said that in #155. I didn't fabricate anything. Are you so used to telling lies till you don't even notice when you do it?

I never said a gun imparts restraint

I said gun owners demonstrate restraint

You really can't read very well

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Liberal minds operate in strange ways.

 

[BULLDOG]

You claim gun owners show incredible restraint. If owning a gun is not the thing that gives gun owners that trait, what else do you think they might have in common to cause gun owners to show such incredible restraint?

There you go attributing magical properties to an inanimate object

The gun does not give restraint
The gun does not cause crime

People who carry legally do not go around shooting people as much as you like to think they do



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

So where does that incredible restraint come from? I already have guns, but if I bought another, would my restraint increase? Explain what you mean, and why gun ownership imparts the incredible restraint you seem to be so proud of.

Where did I ever say gun ownership imparts restraint

You are fabricating an argument and attributing it to me then you are arguing against your own made up arguments



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

You said that in #155. I didn't fabricate anything. Are you so used to telling lies till you don't even notice when you do it?

I never said a gun imparts restraint

I said gun owners demonstrate restraint

You really can't read very well

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Exactly. What is the source of that restraint? You said there is a direct correlation between being a gun owner, and incredible restraint. I am only asking you to clarify what you mean. If gun owners possess more restraint than the average person, your term was INCREDIBLE RESTRAINT, what is the source of that restraint? Explain your claim --- coward.