Disney failure: WHY?

I will admit, I haven't seen the entire movie as an adult. I do believe it was still available in the 1960's when I was a child, so I know kids of my generation sand "Zippity-do-da". It was re-released in 1972, so I may have seen it then.
The clips I've seen of it, though, are bad enough.
Here's where black people and white people who don't belong to racist cults have an issue with it... It portrayed the social order of the antebellum South as benign. It's the same objection people had to Gone with the Wind.

Black people are depicted more favorably than white people (at least than white adults), in this movie.

What you are calling “racist” is an accurate depiction of the social order, however good or ill you may think of that order, in the time and place where the movie is set.

By your logic, almost any reasonable depiction of many points in history would be condemned as “racist”.
 
Black people are depicted more favorably than white people (at least than white adults), in this movie.

Yes, by "favorably" you mean acquiesent.

There's a reason why black people used to use "Uncle Remus" as an insult as awful as "Uncle Tom". It's not that these were negative characters, but that they were characters who acquiesced to their oppressors.
 
Black people are depicted more favorably than white people (at least than white adults), in this movie.
Yes, by "favorably" you mean acquiesent [sic].

Yes, that's it. It was just black folks being “acquiescent” in counseling, comforting, and supporting a white boy who was suffering from the ill effects of his parents' bad behavior. Uncle Remus himself was just being “acquiescent” by telling his wonderful stories, and teaching the lessons that they contained.
 
Yes, that's it. It was just black folks being “acquiescent” in counseling, comforting, and supporting a white boy who was suffering from the ill effects of his parents' bad behavior. Uncle Remus himself was just being “acquiescent” by telling his wonderful stories, and teaching the lessons that they contained.
Okay, so how did "Uncle" Remus come to live on that plantation? Did he send in a resume, or was he an enslaved person who had nowhere else to go after the war?

the problem here is that it showed Slavery and Jim Crow as being "Not all that bad". Of course, Remus loved the family that lived in a nice big mansion while he and the rest of the black people lived in unheated wooden shacks.

There's a reason why Disney has buried this toxic turd in their vault for the last 50 years.
 
 
Okay, so how did "Uncle" Remus come to live on that plantation? Did he send in a resume, or was he an enslaved person who had nowhere else to go after the war?

That's not part of the story.

Is it obligatory, then, that any work of fiction set in a time where any circumstances existed as a norm, that we now regard as unjust, must be whitewashed to remove any traces of that injustice? Should Uncle Remus have been depicted as living in a big, luxurious mansion, just like his employer? Or should he and the others who helped the young boy just have been depicted as white?
 
That's not part of the story.

Is it obligatory, then, that any work of fiction set in a time where any circumstances existed as a norm, that we now regard as unjust, must be whitewashed to remove any traces of that injustice? Should Uncle Remus have been depicted as living in a big, luxurious mansion, just like his employer? Or should he and the others who helped the young boy just have been depicted as white?

Or maybe- get this - don't have a story that whitewashed the injustices to start with.

The problem with much of Disney's work is that it's a product of the time that people of other cultures/races were portrayed in a non-flattering light. Sometimes you can just edit them out like Buttercup the Pickanany Centaur in Fantasia, and sometimes you just lock these turds into a dark vault and try to pretend they didn't happen.
 

Disney failure: WHY?​

Not even close to the failures of DUHSantis and his daddy........Trump.
 
Or maybe- get this - don't have a story that whitewashed the injustices to start with.

The problem with much of Disney's work is that it's a product of the time that people of other cultures/races were portrayed in a non-flattering light. Sometimes you can just edit them out like Buttercup the Pickanany Centaur in Fantasia, and sometimes you just lock these turds into a dark vault and try to pretend they didn't happen.

And sometimes, you destroy irreplaceable works of great ancient art. Anything to hide from the past, to ignore history, or even to try to destroy history.
 
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And sometimes, you tear destroy irreplaceable works of great ancient art. Anything to hide from the past, to ignore history, or even to try to destroy history.
No one gave a shit about those two statues until the Taliban threatened to blow them up. There haven't been Buddhists in Afghanistan in centuries.



Are you really comparing the Song of the South to these ancient statues, Bob?

Me, I'm more concerned about the fact that Afghanistan was made a horrible place to live by 40 years of bad American policy.
 
The CCP wants a black Mermaid?

(Actually, anti-Black bias is worse in China than it is here.)

I'm not sure why Disney is doing half of what they are doing, other than trying to squeeze more money out of established IPs rather than creating new ones.

I think the problem at Disney is that they just don't know how to do things economically.

Let's take Indiana Jones, for instance.

The first IJ movie, Raiders of the Last Ark, was made on a budget of $20 million dollars. (70 million in today's money) and made 389 million (1.379 billion in today's money). Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, despite not being as well loved, cost $185 million (270MM in today's money) and made 790 million (1.154 Billion in today's money)

The Dial of Destiny cost about $300 million and only raked in $384 million worldwide.

Part of the reason why it cost so much. Well, the first version didn't score well among test audiences, so they went back and did massive reshoots. They spend a lot of money on "de-aging" CGI to make Harrison Ford not look like a confused old man in some scenes. but another part of the problem is that while back in 1981, a movie could stay in the theaters for months if it was popular, a movie today has to make all of its money in the first weekend.

Of course, with most of these properties, it's not so much about how much you make at the box office as how much you make in related merchandising. When I went to Disney during my Honeymoon, they had several Star Wars-themed sections, along with an Indiana Jones stunt show.

I suspect that most of Hollywood is going to eventually start learning to live on tighter budgets.
The reason Disney is doing what they are doing is their estimated earning for 2023 is $4.50 a share and they are sitting on 15 billion in cash and short term bonds
 
The reason Disney is doing what they are doing is their estimated earning for 2023 is $4.50 a share and they are sitting on 15 billion in cash and short term bonds
That's why they are making bad movies?

Couldn't they do that and make GOOD movies?

A lot of what Disney is doing is stupid, such as casting a Hispanic Snow White and then not hiring little people to play the Dwarves because Dwarves are offensive to little people.

I also don't think their pandering to China is a good thing, because they are making creative decisions that make the movies less entertaining.

Case in point, I give you the character of Rose Tico, played by Kelly Marie Tran. "Hey, let's have an Asian character in Star Wars so we can appeal to the Chinese Audience!" Except of course, the character was the human analog to nails on a chalkboard, and the fans hated her, not because she was Asian, but because her character was stupid, dressed in an unattractive way so she wouldn't outshine the movie's female lead. Worse, they were setting her up for a potential Romance with John Bodega's character of Finn. Oh, but wait, that interracial stuff doesn't play in China, so they abandoned the concept by the next movie.
 
That's why they are making bad movies?

Couldn't they do that and make GOOD movies?

A lot of what Disney is doing is stupid, such as casting a Hispanic Snow White and then not hiring little people to play the Dwarves because Dwarves are offensive to little people.

I also don't think their pandering to China is a good thing, because they are making creative decisions that make the movies less entertaining.

Case in point, I give you the character of Rose Tico, played by Kelly Marie Tran. "Hey, let's have an Asian character in Star Wars so we can appeal to the Chinese Audience!" Except of course, the character was the human analog to nails on a chalkboard, and the fans hated her, not because she was Asian, but because her character was stupid, dressed in an unattractive way so she wouldn't outshine the movie's female lead. Worse, they were setting her up for a potential Romance with John Bodega's character of Finn. Oh, but wait, that interracial stuff doesn't play in China, so they abandoned the concept by the next movie.
I learned long ago not to judge the public's tasted based on my own tastes.

Disney is opening new market by appealing to various ethnic groups and minorities. And it seems to be working. What they have lost in the American white middle class market they are making it up by creating more diverse products and concentrating on foreign markets particularly in the Asian and Latin markets. Disney's 2023 box office revenues topped 1.8 billion which is just above the average yearly box office since 2000. While more and more US theater patrons are switching to streaming that is not the case in developing countries. Movie theaters are still very popular and this is where Disney is concentrating their box box office product efforts.

It is impossible to tell how successful Disney's streaming products are but judging form the subscriber grow, the Disney network is doing quite well. It is now number 3 with over 150 million subscribers.
 
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I learned long ago not to judge the public's tasted based on my own tastes.

Disney is opening new market by appealing to various ethnic groups and minorities. And it seems to be working. What they have lost in the American white middle class market they are making it up by creating more diverse products and concentrating on foreign markets particularly in the Asian and Latin markets. Disney's 2023 box office revenues topped 1.8 billion which is just above the average yearly box office since 2000. While more and more US theater patrons are switching to streaming that is not the case in developing countries. Movie theaters are still very popular and this is where Disney is concentrating their box box office product efforts.

It is impossible to tell how successful Disney's streaming products are but judging form the subscriber grow, the Disney network is doing quite well. It is now number 3 with over 150 million subscribers.

Yeah, but I don't think you get there by insulting your base.

The Indiana Jones movie was a flop.
Their last animated feature, Wish, was a flop.
Their last Marvel Release, The Marvels, was a flop.
They just spent a bunch of money investing in the Doctor Who Franchise, and the ratings for that are continuing to fail.
Most of the recent Star Wars streaming shows have had bad ratings.
 
Yeah, but I don't think you get there by insulting your base.

The Indiana Jones movie was a flop.
Their last animated feature, Wish, was a flop.
Their last Marvel Release, The Marvels, was a flop.
They just spent a bunch of money investing in the Doctor Who Franchise, and the ratings for that are continuing to fail.
Most of the recent Star Wars streaming shows have had bad ratings.
Yet, they make billions.
 
Is it because they bought ought by China. And every single thing they push is contrived trash pushed by the CCP? A black mermaid? Based on a white Norwegian white myth? Who wanted THIS? WHO?
November 2021. Something happened around that time and Republicans went to war with Disney. For probably being pro lgbtq I'm sure.

A subset of America actually purports to boycott Disney, the world’s preeminent entertainment company; Bud Light, once America’s most popular beer; Target, the quintessential brick-and-mortar shopping destination; Pfizer, the pharmaceutical company that produced life-saving Covid-19 vaccines; Major League Football, the nation’s favorite pastime; and now Taylor Swift, a generational icon and one of the most successful musical artists of all time.

“There’s something striking about watching the far-right tying itself in knots and attacking Swift and [her boyfriend Travis] Kelce that demonstrates how badly the far-right media has alienated itself from most of society,” They’ve built out this alternate universe and reality of grievance and it feels like instead of using it to wage an effective culture war, they’re fully lost in it and can’t see that they’ve chosen as their primary enemy the person with the literal highest approval rating in American life right now.”
 
November 2021. Something happened around that time and Republicans went to war with Disney. For probably being pro lgbtq I'm sure.

A subset of America actually purports to boycott Disney, the world’s preeminent entertainment company; Bud Light, once America’s most popular beer; Target, the quintessential brick-and-mortar shopping destination; Pfizer, the pharmaceutical company that produced life-saving Covid-19 vaccines; Major League Football, the nation’s favorite pastime; and now Taylor Swift, a generational icon and one of the most successful musical artists of all time.

“There’s something striking about watching the far-right tying itself in knots and attacking Swift and [her boyfriend Travis] Kelce that demonstrates how badly the far-right media has alienated itself from most of society,” They’ve built out this alternate universe and reality of grievance and it feels like instead of using it to wage an effective culture war, they’re fully lost in it and can’t see that they’ve chosen as their primary enemy the person with the literal highest approval rating in American life right now.”

As I've said, I have mixed feelings about Disney. On one hand, they are trying to do the right thing by their LGBTQ customers/fans. Their employees had to kick up a storm to get them to do it, but they did. Of course, given how many actors and others from that community they hire, they really couldn't. (Ironic thing, Disney refers to their staff as "Cast Members". When I was trying to sort out some pictures from my honeymoon, they referred to the guy on the phone as a "Cast Member". )

On the other hand, they have really ruined some of my favorite intellectual properties. The Indian Jones film wasn't that bad, but it was unnecessary. (It also underwent massive reshoots, telling me whatever they originally foisted on the fans was much, much worse.) Star Wars has turned into a steady stream of crap since they acquired it. They haven't produced a good Marvel movie in years.

Now, yes, they are making money off the merchandising and theme parks, which I guess allows them to set piles of money on fire with movies that the fans hate. But is that sustainable?
 
As I've said, I have mixed feelings about Disney. On one hand, they are trying to do the right thing by their LGBTQ customers/fans. Their employees had to kick up a storm to get them to do it, but they did. Of course, given how many actors and others from that community they hire, they really couldn't. (Ironic thing, Disney refers to their staff as "Cast Members". When I was trying to sort out some pictures from my honeymoon, they referred to the guy on the phone as a "Cast Member". )

On the other hand, they have really ruined some of my favorite intellectual properties. The Indian Jones film wasn't that bad, but it was unnecessary. (It also underwent massive reshoots, telling me whatever they originally foisted on the fans was much, much worse.) Star Wars has turned into a steady stream of crap since they acquired it. They haven't produced a good Marvel movie in years.

Now, yes, they are making money off the merchandising and theme parks, which I guess allows them to set piles of money on fire with movies that the fans hate. But is that sustainable?
Yesterday I saw Spiderman where all three Spider Man's were in it. Because Spiderman got Dr Strange to cast a spell wishing everyone forgot who Spiderman was EXCEPT people who knew who spiderman was before he was outed, but that brought back all of his enemies. From multiple universes. Come on that was good!

When I think of the best Marvel's I think of

a. Hulk movies
b. Ironman 1
c. The first Avengers where they all got together and hulk smashed

I know they've become watered down and overdone but what would you prefer? Lots of movies or only 1 every 3 years?

You know what I miss? Really good comedies. Super Bad or Stripes. Pinnaple Express. Borat, Dumb and Dumber, Trading Places, anything with Will Farrell, Blazing Saddles, etc. They don't make enough of these anymore.
 
You know what I miss? Really good comedies. Super Bad or Stripes. Pinnaple Express. Borat, Dumb and Dumber, Trading Places, anything with Will Farrell, Blazing Saddles, etc. They don't make enough of these anymore.
I think you can't do comedies without offending someone these days.

I know they've become watered down and overdone but what would you prefer? Lots of movies or only 1 every 3 years?
I think what I would prefer is creating art rather than producing product.

Take Star Wars. Disney paid 4 billion for it from George Lucas and then decided they were going to produce a new product even if they didn't have a vision for it. So, they produced the sequel trilogy that everyone hated, followed by one crappy series after another on Disney Plus that everyone hated. Particularly the Boba Fett and Obi-Wan series, which everyone really wanted until they actually got them.
 

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