Dershowitz: Drop George Zimmerman’s murder charge

[tererun]

The burden of proof lies with the Prosecution. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty.
How have you missed this crucial cornerstone of American Justice?

Learn to read the whole thing. Zimmerman is guilty of killing treyvon. Even he admits that. Something you seem to feel never happened. Hell, even with that confession he is still entitled to a tial, but that fact is not in doubt right now. He killed him so he gets murder charges pressed. The only question is whether or not that killing was or was not acceptable by the law. he is not innocent. At best his murder can be justified.

 

[tererun]

It was on the same page as "justifiable homicide" in her "Dick and Jane Go To Court" book.

It is also on the same page at white supremist who thinks any black person being killed is not a crime, like you.

Seriously, if i am going to get blamed for it i should just start doing it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It was on the same page as "justifiable homicide" in her "Dick and Jane Go To Court" book.

It is also on the same page at white supremist who thinks any black person being killed is not a crime, like you.

Seriously, if i am going to get blamed for it i should just start doing it.

Wow, another liberal trying to win a debate by calling his opponent a racist.

Yaaawwwwwnnnnnn....

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am so glad the law isn't decided or applied by uneducated halfwits in this country based on some vague, childish notion of "how things SHOULD be". If we listened to fools like you, our court system would be so clogged with unnecessary cases it would totally break down, rather than limping along like it does.

Wow, terrible argument. Second our courts have something called an arraignment. This is where a lot of cases either get plea bargained to save tiome, or they get dismissed before going to trial. Huge numbers of cases never see a trial. You are correcty, our court system does have a method to deal with cases that may not have the merrit to go to trial. that night in the police station was certainly not one of those times.

You see, america's court system does not act based on your flawed perceptions. You do not even know all the evidence that is out there. Clearly the news has not had access to or shown everything the prosecutor or the defense has. All i am saying is the court should act in the same way and not show clear favoritism to a defendant for whatever reason. It is a fact the the prosecutor at the time acted way outside of SOP by letting it drop before the arraignment even happened, even though the police wanted to charge zimmerman. You are trying to claim a justified killing based on evidence you have never seen, but I am telling you that this was handled irregularly based upon how the court system actually works.

It wasn't an argument, shitforbrains. It was a statement. I am glad that two-toothed, flatlining ignoramuses like you are neither deciding the laws nor applying them in this country, because you couldn't find your own asshole with a map and a Native American guide. The more you talk, the more I suspect you couldn't find it with a detailed schematic and instructions from Houston Control.

First, Mensa Thing, everything you have to say is irrelevant on the level of an argument from my 3-year-old. Actually, scratch that. My three-year-old is smarter than you are. He's also cuter, which makes his ignorance far more tolerable. I don't give a damn about arraignments or any other extraneous shit you've decided to talk about, because it's all after the fact of your extremely retarded and juvenile bullshit collapsing our court system.

Our system is not designed to decide every case that ever comes past our police departments in the courts, you ancephalic troglodyte (get someone to look it up for you; I'm not in the mood to dumb shit down for the illiterate). It is intended to release without charges those cases where 1) not enough evidence exists to successfully bring prove a crime has been committed, and 2) it does not rise to the level of needing a trial. That is why we have mechanisms like plea bargaining, and why the punishment for many misdemeanors is simply a fine and perhaps some community service. And no, Zoo Boy, the fact that someone died is NOT sufficient evidence that a crime has been committed. Try learning about the law from something other than television.

If you need this explained to you in more detail, perhaps with some nice charts and diagrams color-coded in Crayon, let me know.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The burden of proof lies with the Prosecution. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty.
How have you missed this crucial cornerstone of American Justice?

Learn to read the whole thing. Zimmerman is guilty of killing treyvon. Even he admits that. Something you seem to feel never happened. Hell, even with that confession he is still entitled to a tial, but that fact is not in doubt right now. He killed him so he gets murder charges pressed. The only question is whether or not that killing was or was not acceptable by the law. he is not innocent. At best his murder can be justified.

Hey, lint-for-brains, just because he kiilled Trayvon doesn't mean he's guilty of a crime. It is entirely possible to kill someone and have it be perfectly legal to do so. Maybe you should watch a little less "Law and Order" and pick up a fucking book once in a while. Penthouse Forum doesn't count.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Apparently from Newsbusters there's a report that Trayvon was involved in an underground fight club.

As time goes on, the hastily constructed second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin is continuing to collapse as more evidence formerly known only by the prosecution is released to the public.

The first is that Martin seems to have been less interested in running away from Zimmerman and more in bashing him, according to a witness interviewed by police within minutes of the shooting. But that's not all:

Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit relates the discovery of video from Trayvon Martin’s YouTube account, removed at some point during the last month, that shows he was actually involved in some sort of underground “fight club.”


Read more: Open Thread: The Continued Collapse of the George Zimmerman Case | NewsBusters.org


This is really disturbing. The Prosecution surely knew this was all going to come out and make her look like a fool.

This part kills me.

Despite the prosecution’s awareness of the autopsy reports and eyewitness testimony, they included none of it in their affidavit against Zimmerman.

In fairness to Angela Corey, IF this is true - and it is still quite an "if" - she may not have known about it at all, and so had no way to know it was going to come out.

How is this plausible?

If you were in her position, wouldnt you have reviewed all the evidence available before touching a case like this one?

 

[Oldstyle]

The burden of proof lies with the Prosecution. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty.
How have you missed this crucial cornerstone of American Justice?

Learn to read the whole thing. Zimmerman is guilty of killing treyvon. Even he admits that. Something you seem to feel never happened. Hell, even with that confession he is still entitled to a tial, but that fact is not in doubt right now. He killed him so he gets murder charges pressed. The only question is whether or not that killing was or was not acceptable by the law. he is not innocent. At best his murder can be justified.

Do you not understand that to be "guilty" one has to break the law? George Zimmerman is not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin unless it is determined that in killing him he committed a crime.

The law in Florida allows for the use of deadly force in defending oneself against an attack in which you fear for your life. The injuries to George Zimmerman and the eyewitness testimony that places Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman raining blows down on him like it was an MMA fight are what prompted the local Prosecutor not to charge Zimmerman with a crime. The fact that Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin and was returning to his SUV to meet police back by the front of the complex makes Martin the aggressor in the conflict and not Zimmerman as has been alleged by much of the media for months now. If Trayvon Martin simply walks back to Brandy Greens townhouse this senseless killing never takes place because a confrontation never takes place.

 

[Ariux]

It was on the same page as "justifiable homicide" in her "Dick and Jane Go To Court" book.

It is also on the same page at white supremist who thinks any black person being killed is not a crime, like you.

The law says killing Afros, without being in danger or life and limb, is a crime. If the law said killing cockroaches were a crime, it would likewise be a crime. Killing Afros and roaches to protect your quality of life isn't justification enough. The law is a bitch.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It was on the same page as "justifiable homicide" in her "Dick and Jane Go To Court" book.

It is also on the same page at white supremist who thinks any black person being killed is not a crime, like you.

Seriously, if i am going to get blamed for it i should just start doing it.

Oh, Sparkles, you are SOO off the mark, you're not even in the same ZIP code. If you're going to assume everyone who thinks you're an ignorant piece of pig shit must be 1) white, and 2) racist, you should just clear the fuck off this board right now and leave the space for someone with a functioning brain stem.

Because it's Memorial Day and I'm feeling warm and fuzzy in the memory of all the soldiers who have died to win you the right to be a mouthbreathing dipshit, I'm gonna explain this to you: the only person in this conversation who gives a good goddamn that Trayvon Martin was black is YOU. Ditto for the only person in this conversation who thinks it has, or should have, any impact on the facts or disposition of George Zimmerman's case. And since the only person in this conversation who's hyper-obsessed with skin color is YOU, that means that the only racist here is . . . that's right, YOU.

Not but what I would expect from a moron like you, since everyone knows that extreme stupidity and bigotry are closely linked.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Apparently from Newsbusters there's a report that Trayvon was involved in an underground fight club.

As time goes on, the hastily constructed second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin is continuing to collapse as more evidence formerly known only by the prosecution is released to the public.

The first is that Martin seems to have been less interested in running away from Zimmerman and more in bashing him, according to a witness interviewed by police within minutes of the shooting. But that's not all:

Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit relates the discovery of video from Trayvon Martin’s YouTube account, removed at some point during the last month, that shows he was actually involved in some sort of underground “fight club.”


Read more: Open Thread: The Continued Collapse of the George Zimmerman Case | NewsBusters.org


This is really disturbing. The Prosecution surely knew this was all going to come out and make her look like a fool.

This part kills me.

Despite the prosecution’s awareness of the autopsy reports and eyewitness testimony, they included none of it in their affidavit against Zimmerman.

In fairness to Angela Corey, IF this is true - and it is still quite an "if" - she may not have known about it at all, and so had no way to know it was going to come out.

How is this plausible?

If you were in her position, wouldnt you have reviewed all the evidence available before touching a case like this one?

Trayvon Martin participating in an underground fight club may not have been available evidence at the time she made the apparently egregious decision to bring charges.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

It is simple. He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops. This is not like dropping a speeding ticket, or letting someone off with a warning. Someone lost their life, and he should have to present his evidence in court to explain why his shooting was justified in accordance with the law. It is the fact that it was dismissed before ever getting near a courtroom that shows there was some sort of bullshit going on behind the scenes. Cops are not judge and jury and have no business making decisions on who to prosecute or not. Any prosecutor who decides to not even arraign a guy for a serious crime as murder needs to have his employment terminated. Sending someone to trial in regards to a crime is not a conviction. hell, he was not even charged with a crime despite clearly admitting to the shooting. It is for the courts to decide guilty or innocent and not the cops, or the public.

Sending him to trial where he could present his evidence to a judge and jury and defend himself against the charges in court with a lawyer and not with the PR representative he had before the charges was the right thing to do the whole time. It is clear his defense held back evidence from the community to be presented in trial, and now he is presenting his whole side in court where it should have been the whole time. The problem here is not really even zimmerman, it is the decision of the police department to show favoritism towards zimmerman by never even arraigning him for murder despite him having killed another person. There also should be a lot of outrage at a law that allows you to use deadly force in a confrontation you instigated without having attempted to retreat. Still, if zimmerman is innocent due to a law on the books it is not his fault because he obeyed the law. If they do not like the law then florida voters should make sure the law is changed. Zimmerman should still have to justify his killing to an impartial court, and not to a bunch of cops and whoever else happened to be hanging out at the police station that evening. There is clearly something wrong at the Sanford police department that needs to be fixed. There appears to be something very wrong with florida's gun laws regarding how people are allowed to use them. Whether or not zimmerman acted improperly is now being decided by the place that should have decided it to begin with.

He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops.

So if someone enters your house with a weapon, and is threatening the lives of those you love, and you blast him into extinction with a double-tap to the head, you should have to spend money on lawyers and court costs to defend yourself??

 

[Liability]

It is simple. He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops. This is not like dropping a speeding ticket, or letting someone off with a warning. Someone lost their life, and he should have to present his evidence in court to explain why his shooting was justified in accordance with the law. It is the fact that it was dismissed before ever getting near a courtroom that shows there was some sort of bullshit going on behind the scenes. Cops are not judge and jury and have no business making decisions on who to prosecute or not. Any prosecutor who decides to not even arraign a guy for a serious crime as murder needs to have his employment terminated. Sending someone to trial in regards to a crime is not a conviction. hell, he was not even charged with a crime despite clearly admitting to the shooting. It is for the courts to decide guilty or innocent and not the cops, or the public.

Sending him to trial where he could present his evidence to a judge and jury and defend himself against the charges in court with a lawyer and not with the PR representative he had before the charges was the right thing to do the whole time. It is clear his defense held back evidence from the community to be presented in trial, and now he is presenting his whole side in court where it should have been the whole time. The problem here is not really even zimmerman, it is the decision of the police department to show favoritism towards zimmerman by never even arraigning him for murder despite him having killed another person. There also should be a lot of outrage at a law that allows you to use deadly force in a confrontation you instigated without having attempted to retreat. Still, if zimmerman is innocent due to a law on the books it is not his fault because he obeyed the law. If they do not like the law then florida voters should make sure the law is changed. Zimmerman should still have to justify his killing to an impartial court, and not to a bunch of cops and whoever else happened to be hanging out at the police station that evening. There is clearly something wrong at the Sanford police department that needs to be fixed. There appears to be something very wrong with florida's gun laws regarding how people are allowed to use them. Whether or not zimmerman acted improperly is now being decided by the place that should have decided it to begin with.

He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops.

So if someone enters your house with a weapon, and is threatening the lives of those you love, and you blast him into extinction with a double-tap to the head, you should have to spend money on lawyers and court costs to defend yourself??

Hit nail on head. Wins the point.

 

[Peach]

Does a Florida prosecutor actually have any ethical or legal responsibility to include potentially exculpatory facts in an affidavit? Dershowitz goes so far as to call the affidavit criminal and perjurious (Dershowitz: Prosecutor in Trayvon Martin case overreached with murder charge | Fox News). I rather doubt that, since I can't imagine why a non-insane prosecutor would so publicly and clearly commit perjury (and anyway so far as I know omissions rather than false statements aren't perjury).

Dershowitz has created an industry for himself, I have seen him yup about this case at least ten times. Exculpatory evidence will come out in discovery, if not before. Now, where is the Motion to Dismiss if the charge is so weak? the killer's attorney filed a written plea I have read, that would include a discovery demand. Corey is from rock solid Republican country, next to my county. She sees something; she has the evidence, not D the media hound.

 

[Bigfoot]

From what I have read and listened to in the media is that many of Florida's prosecutors agree with Dershowitz's point of view. However all of the Florida prosecutors I saw debate the issue on both sides say that the way Corey filed the brief to the court is "typical" of how it is done in Florida. That was something all of the prosecutors from both sides of the debate agreed with. They also went on to say that they would like to see the change in procedure and for it to be exactly how Dershowitz laid it out and that is how it should be. But that change would have to be made to include every jurisdiction in Florida and they do not think that will ever come to be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It is simple. He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops. This is not like dropping a speeding ticket, or letting someone off with a warning. Someone lost their life, and he should have to present his evidence in court to explain why his shooting was justified in accordance with the law. It is the fact that it was dismissed before ever getting near a courtroom that shows there was some sort of bullshit going on behind the scenes. Cops are not judge and jury and have no business making decisions on who to prosecute or not. Any prosecutor who decides to not even arraign a guy for a serious crime as murder needs to have his employment terminated. Sending someone to trial in regards to a crime is not a conviction. hell, he was not even charged with a crime despite clearly admitting to the shooting. It is for the courts to decide guilty or innocent and not the cops, or the public.

Sending him to trial where he could present his evidence to a judge and jury and defend himself against the charges in court with a lawyer and not with the PR representative he had before the charges was the right thing to do the whole time. It is clear his defense held back evidence from the community to be presented in trial, and now he is presenting his whole side in court where it should have been the whole time. The problem here is not really even zimmerman, it is the decision of the police department to show favoritism towards zimmerman by never even arraigning him for murder despite him having killed another person. There also should be a lot of outrage at a law that allows you to use deadly force in a confrontation you instigated without having attempted to retreat. Still, if zimmerman is innocent due to a law on the books it is not his fault because he obeyed the law. If they do not like the law then florida voters should make sure the law is changed. Zimmerman should still have to justify his killing to an impartial court, and not to a bunch of cops and whoever else happened to be hanging out at the police station that evening. There is clearly something wrong at the Sanford police department that needs to be fixed. There appears to be something very wrong with florida's gun laws regarding how people are allowed to use them. Whether or not zimmerman acted improperly is now being decided by the place that should have decided it to begin with.

He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops.

So if someone enters your house with a weapon, and is threatening the lives of those you love, and you blast him into extinction with a double-tap to the head, you should have to spend money on lawyers and court costs to defend yourself??

I'm having the strangest sense of deja vu right now. I know we've had this conversation before - the inability of liberals to understand letting the safety valves in the set procedures work to handle issues instead of sending them all directly to the highest authority to be dealt with - but for the life of me, I can't remember what the topic was the other time.

Well, whatever it was, it seems obvious that Sparkles here is one of the liberal ignoramuses who thinks that the police and the prosecutors have no place in weeding out and handling those legal issues that don't really require the full-on attention of the court, so as to preserve the court system's valuable time for those cases which MUST have it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Does a Florida prosecutor actually have any ethical or legal responsibility to include potentially exculpatory facts in an affidavit? Dershowitz goes so far as to call the affidavit criminal and perjurious (Dershowitz: Prosecutor in Trayvon Martin case overreached with murder charge | Fox News). I rather doubt that, since I can't imagine why a non-insane prosecutor would so publicly and clearly commit perjury (and anyway so far as I know omissions rather than false statements aren't perjury).

Dershowitz has created an industry for himself, I have seen him yup about this case at least ten times. Exculpatory evidence will come out in discovery, if not before. Now, where is the Motion to Dismiss if the charge is so weak? the killer's attorney filed a written plea I have read, that would include a discovery demand. Corey is from rock solid Republican country, next to my county. She sees something; she has the evidence, not D the media hound.

Well, if she's got some killer bombshell that decimates Zimmerman's arguments, why is she allowing her case to continue looking weak and pathetic? Who's she keeping it a secret from, and why? Certainly not the defense attorney or the court, and I can't think of anyone else for her to WANT to misrepresent her case to.

 

[Bigfoot]

The prosecution has a powerful ally in the Feds. who want to see Zimmerman get a huge dose of Holder justice.

 

[Ariux]

The prosecution has a powerful ally in the Feds. who want to see Zimmerman get a huge dose of Holder justice.

Yeah, the government is spending big bucks looking for any way to hang Zimmerman. That's not equal protection under the law.

Know Afros, no justice. No Afros, know justice. Or, in their own favorite words "No justice, no peace."

 

[LilOlLady]

"Under groud fight club?" What the fuck does that have to do with Zimmerman murdering a teenager? Zimmerman was trained in police Acadamy did not keep him from getting his ass kicked by a teenager. Wanna be super hero.

 

[LilOlLady]

It is simple. He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops. This is not like dropping a speeding ticket, or letting someone off with a warning. Someone lost their life, and he should have to present his evidence in court to explain why his shooting was justified in accordance with the law. It is the fact that it was dismissed before ever getting near a courtroom that shows there was some sort of bullshit going on behind the scenes. Cops are not judge and jury and have no business making decisions on who to prosecute or not. Any prosecutor who decides to not even arraign a guy for a serious crime as murder needs to have his employment terminated. Sending someone to trial in regards to a crime is not a conviction. hell, he was not even charged with a crime despite clearly admitting to the shooting. It is for the courts to decide guilty or innocent and not the cops, or the public.

Sending him to trial where he could present his evidence to a judge and jury and defend himself against the charges in court with a lawyer and not with the PR representative he had before the charges was the right thing to do the whole time. It is clear his defense held back evidence from the community to be presented in trial, and now he is presenting his whole side in court where it should have been the whole time. The problem here is not really even zimmerman, it is the decision of the police department to show favoritism towards zimmerman by never even arraigning him for murder despite him having killed another person. There also should be a lot of outrage at a law that allows you to use deadly force in a confrontation you instigated without having attempted to retreat. Still, if zimmerman is innocent due to a law on the books it is not his fault because he obeyed the law. If they do not like the law then florida voters should make sure the law is changed. Zimmerman should still have to justify his killing to an impartial court, and not to a bunch of cops and whoever else happened to be hanging out at the police station that evening. There is clearly something wrong at the Sanford police department that needs to be fixed. There appears to be something very wrong with florida's gun laws regarding how people are allowed to use them. Whether or not zimmerman acted improperly is now being decided by the place that should have decided it to begin with.

He took someone's life and anyone who does that should go to court and have their evidence presented to a judge or jury and not have it decided by street cops.

So if someone enters your house with a weapon, and is threatening the lives of those you love, and you blast him into extinction with a double-tap to the head, you should have to spend money on lawyers and court costs to defend yourself??

Hit nail on head. Wins the point.

NO, and what the fuck does this have to do with Zimmerman stalking Trayvon, confronting him at his door steps, provoking him into a fight and then like a punk ass little bitch pull a gun and shoot him? Shooting accidents are always investigated. These ass hole officers knew Zimmerman and let his go without an investigation when he is found in side Trayvon's domain.
There is a stinking dead fish in this case.