Dems got the Trump Racism thing all wrong

[Slade3200]

Anderson Cooper grew up in a mixed neighborhood.
View attachment 171769
his residence now
at 84 West 3rd Street in GV section of Manhattan, NY is exclusive, does anyone know the demographic ratio there?

Who cares? What’s your point?

They have politicized a false report and weaponized it for propaganda.
So lets see if they pass their own sniff test(own standards);
Anderson Coopers neighborhood demographics
View attachment 171771

Again, who gives a shit about what neighborhood he lives in? That has nothing to do with anything.

 

[HaShev]

Anderson Cooper grew up in a mixed neighborhood.
View attachment 171769
his residence now
at 84 West 3rd Street in GV section of Manhattan, NY is exclusive, does anyone know the demographic ratio there?

Who cares? What’s your point?

They have politicized a false report and weaponized it for propaganda.
So lets see if they pass their own sniff test(own standards);
Anderson Coopers neighborhood demographics
View attachment 171771

Again, who gives a shit about what neighborhood he lives in? That has nothing to do with anything.

But it does, the MSM has used this Durbin lie and tactic to bring up old Trump Towers cases they won and bent over backwards to show how wrong those accusations were.
So using their standard about racism being those who reside in racial preference then Anderson Cooper is a racist,
as is Maxine Waters for hating white and Latin Neighbors, and the list of banned nations are for preferring only Muslims-oops they opened up a can of worms.

 

[iceberg]

Anderson Cooper grew up in a mixed neighborhood.
View attachment 171769
his residence now
at 84 West 3rd Street in GV section of Manhattan, NY is exclusive, does anyone know the demographic ratio there?

Who cares? What’s your point?

They have politicized a false report and weaponized it for propaganda.
So lets see if they pass their own sniff test(own standards);
Anderson Coopers neighborhood demographics
View attachment 171771

Again, who gives a shit about what neighborhood he lives in? That has nothing to do with anything.

So out of his statements, the neighborhood shouldn't be attacked. Agreed.

But what about politicizing unproven accusations?

 

[iceberg]

So you set a different standard for immigrants today

Mine were dirt poor farmers out of Norway. In fact quite a few immigrants were dirt poor farmers and other types. They made our country great.

I'm sure your ancestors were good people. Most that came to this Country were. But in the age of terrorism the rules have changed. We need to protect our borders and properly vet everyone who comes here. That just seems prudent to me.

Second....America is a welfare state now. It was not when your family and my family came here. If our families didn't work as soon as they got off the boat they starved.

Today folks are entitled to benefits immediately whether they are here legally or not. Coyote...they are liabilities...not assets...until or if they are working and making good money. So I do not want unskilled people to drain away the assets of this Country to come here. Those assets should be for American citizens.

That is not racist...that is prudent. I have no obligation to someone from Mexico, Nigeria, or Sweden. They need to take care of their own people. If you want to come to this Country do so legally, accept our democratic values, have skills and be willing to work. Seems fair to me....how about to you?

The problem is...we WANT unskilled people too. We want people to herd sheep, alone, for years in the isolated regions of Montana or Idaho...we want people to do the back breaking work of picking produce and milking cows. We want people do do this stuff because we can't even get our own people to do it. My friend can't even hire a reliable kid to do simple farm chores anymore.

And yes, I agree - up to a point. I value diversity in immigration, and they should come in legally.

So you want a slave class to do your dirty work? How about teaching our kids how to work like we used to. Um, no one milks cows these days, machines do that.

Even with machines it isn't work for the lazy. But I agree, it's time we teach that no job is beneath anyone.


.

How exactly would you do that?

For example if a kid could earn the same or more working in McDonalds than milking McDonad's cows...

Both are pretty automotated or headed that way.

Now what will the kid do?

 

[TemplarKormac]

We went very isolationist during prior to WW2 - we thought the East European immigrants were dirty and full of foreign ways. We didn't think they would assimilate. Same with the Irish - the Irish were branded as "papists"...who's loyalty to the pope was believed to overrule loyalty to their new country. Nothing is new

The argument I make is not based on hatred or indifference. It's a matter of practicality. What do we do with the millions of unemployed here that are displaced by the millions of immigrants we naturalize each year?

No offense to you in any way, Coyote, but, you want too much of a good thing. Immigration, like sugar, is good in modest amounts.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But that is a huge difference...don't you realize? If the economy crapped out in Detroit - they can go to Georgia...if they got flooded out once to often in Houston, they can pick up stakes and go to Austin. And still remain in their own country.

I realize the advantage we/they have. But that isn't the point. America values patriotism, more rather, conservatives like me value patriotism, and if we're ever going to show foreigners how to be patriotic... we should teach them to take pride in where they came from, not completely abandon and forget it. I'm proud of my country, I was proud even when the political and economic winds didn't blow in my direction. Never will I consider to abandon it because of adversity.

Sigh... like you said, it's complex. Too much emotion and desperation involved.

 

[iceberg]

But that is a huge difference...don't you realize? If the economy crapped out in Detroit - they can go to Georgia...if they got flooded out once to often in Houston, they can pick up stakes and go to Austin. And still remain in their own country.

I realize the advantage we/they have. But that isn't the point. America values patriotism, more rather, conservatives like me value patriotism, and if we're ever going to show foreigners how to be patriotic... we should teach them to take pride in where they came from, not completely abandon and forget it. I'm proud of my country, I was proud even when the political and economic winds didn't blow in my direction. Never will I consider to abandon it because of adversity.

Sigh... like you said, it's complex. Too much emotion and desperation involved.

so far, agreed in many areas.

i don't care where immigrants want to come from. but we have a process that seems to have been put aside for being too difficult. hell, we have a lottery to give away the right to come here. if we value something so little that we give it away so easily, what value does it truly have?

the problem has become if you don't instantly agree with the "progressives" (lord please let that go back to just being a can of soup soon) if you disagree at all, you're the polar opposite of what they are trying to do.

there's a million shades of gray between black and white yet black and white is all we can see for the most part.

fucking sucks.

 

[TemplarKormac]

if we value something so little that we give it away so easily, what value does it truly have?

Precisely.

More rather, if we give away something we claim to be so valuable so easily, is it truly valuable?

But you nailed it, nonetheless.

 

[Coyote]

But that is a huge difference...don't you realize? If the economy crapped out in Detroit - they can go to Georgia...if they got flooded out once to often in Houston, they can pick up stakes and go to Austin. And still remain in their own country.

I realize the advantage we/they have. But that isn't the point. America values patriotism, more rather, conservatives like me value patriotism, and if we're ever going to show foreigners how to be patriotic... we should teach them to take pride in where they came from, not completely abandon and forget it. I'm proud of my country, I was proud even when the political and economic winds didn't blow in my direction. Never will I consider to abandon it because of adversity.

Sigh... like you said, it's complex. Too much emotion and desperation involved.

I can only say this...I have not come ecen close to the level of abversity these people face...

 

[Slade3200]

Anderson Cooper grew up in a mixed neighborhood.
View attachment 171769
his residence now
at 84 West 3rd Street in GV section of Manhattan, NY is exclusive, does anyone know the demographic ratio there?

Who cares? What’s your point?

They have politicized a false report and weaponized it for propaganda.
So lets see if they pass their own sniff test(own standards);
Anderson Coopers neighborhood demographics
View attachment 171771

Again, who gives a shit about what neighborhood he lives in? That has nothing to do with anything.

But it does, the MSM has used this Durbin lie and tactic to bring up old Trump Towers cases they won and bent over backwards to show how wrong those accusations were.
So using their standard about racism being those who reside in racial preference then Anderson Cooper is a racist,
as is Maxine Waters for hating white and Latin Neighbors, and the list of banned nations are for preferring only Muslims-oops they opened up a can of worms.

Well then I guess under those standards Trump would be a racist... Is that right? Isn't that the case you are making given that Trump rolls in similar type of "white only" circle? Its a dumb argument that I don't agree with but if you're going to use then I'm wondering if your accusations fall across the board

 

[Slade3200]

Anderson Cooper grew up in a mixed neighborhood.
View attachment 171769
his residence now
at 84 West 3rd Street in GV section of Manhattan, NY is exclusive, does anyone know the demographic ratio there?

Who cares? What’s your point?

They have politicized a false report and weaponized it for propaganda.
So lets see if they pass their own sniff test(own standards);
Anderson Coopers neighborhood demographics
View attachment 171771

Again, who gives a shit about what neighborhood he lives in? That has nothing to do with anything.

So out of his statements, the neighborhood shouldn't be attacked. Agreed.

But what about politicizing unproven accusations?

I don't like the precedent of running to the press to attack political opponents after closed door meetings. I'll give you that. But lets also review this situation as I understand it. Please correct me if you think i'm inaccurately presenting any of these points...

1. The Prez calls for an open camera meeting on Tuesday where he expresses a desire to construct a bipartisan bill to address a 2 phase immigration reform program. He scores points on both sides of the aisle for this meeting

2. Durbin calls him on Thursday at 10am to inform him that he and 5 others have reached a bipartisan agreement on a bill that has been in development for the past 4 months. The president responds optimistically and invites Durbin and coauthor Graham over to the white house to discuss. Both congressmen feel like they have a shot at closing the deal during that meeting.

3. Durbin and Graham show up at noon to discuss the plan with the president and are unexpectedly met with Kelly, Miller and 5 other republican senators that are immigration hardliners. The tone was changed from cooperative to aggressive as the room blew up the bill.

4. Undisclosed sources report to the post about details of the meeting and a story is launched exposing the "shithole" comment and a concerning shift in Trumps motives for the immigration program. The whitehouse first owns the statement then the next day Trump vaguely denies the statement via twitter.

5. Upon hearing Trumps denial, Dubin goes public and gives his account of the meeting. His account is backed up by Graham.

6. Republican congressmen take an "I don't remember approach at first, then go public backing up the presidents claim saying that he did not make the reported statements, then change to saying that he said "shithouse" not "shithole"

If you are really interested then watch Cottons interview on Meet the Press and compare it to Durbins interview with Tapper. To me it is night and day. You can see somebody who is being dishonest and spinning as Cotton was doing IMO. Short muddled answers to direct questions with a quick change of subject or redefinition of the intent of the question he is addressing. He continuously takes it from the specific to the general which is a diversionary tactic used when trying to spin a story. Opposed to Durbin who sounded rather clear eyed in his details of events.

Again, I don't like politicalization from either side. In this case the "Trump is Racist" narrative was the politicalization and thats why I started this thread and critiqued that approach. On the other side I am all for transparency and speaking truth to power. If Trump put on one face in front of the cameras and then took a completely different tone behind close doors and proceeded to blow up a deal that he had publicly said he wanted, then I think we have a right to know that. If he doesn't want immigrants from poor countries then that is something that we the public should know.

 

[iceberg]

i don't think we're too far off to be honest.

for your points - if this is a bipartisan meeting why is there surprise hardline repubs are in there? we have hardliners on both sides we're going to need to deal with sooner or later. if it was agreed on beforehand then this is trump getting twisted around by his own people and not following through. bad trump. but it's also convenient to simply say BAD TRUMP and lay it all there.

i don't think he's skilled in the way of politics at all and i think that blows up in his face quite a bit. does it act differently on camera than behind closed doors? at times. but he's also pretty much an ass on the camera as well so how much does he actually tone it down.

bottom line is he is far from a uniter and the divide is just getting worse as people grab onto *their* side for all they are worth anymore and refuse to listen to the other because...well insert reason here.

what is australias immigration policy? pretty sure they want contributors and not just anyone at all. many countries are like this. we're wide open for good or bad and that is what is in question right now. i fall to i don't care where you come from but you need to be a part of this country and not so much make this country what you left.

 

[Slade3200]

i don't think we're too far off to be honest.

for your points - if this is a bipartisan meeting why is there surprise hardline repubs are in there? we have hardliners on both sides we're going to need to deal with sooner or later. if it was agreed on beforehand then this is trump getting twisted around by his own people and not following through. bad trump. but it's also convenient to simply say BAD TRUMP and lay it all there.

i don't think he's skilled in the way of politics at all and i think that blows up in his face quite a bit. does it act differently on camera than behind closed doors? at times. but he's also pretty much an ass on the camera as well so how much does he actually tone it down.

bottom line is he is far from a uniter and the divide is just getting worse as people grab onto *their* side for all they are worth anymore and refuse to listen to the other because...well insert reason here.

what is australias immigration policy? pretty sure they want contributors and not just anyone at all. many countries are like this. we're wide open for good or bad and that is what is in question right now. i fall to i don't care where you come from but you need to be a part of this country and not so much make this country what you left.

Like with most subjects we aren't having an honest conversation about this topic. The hardliners have demonized the terms "Chain migration" and "Lottery" program and there really hasn't been an honest debate about what a Merit based immigration process means or an honest analysis of how our current system works.

For example, it takes about a decade to gain citizenship in this country. People get visas to study and/or work in this country and they need to meet many requirements over a long period of time to keep that visa and ultimately earn citizenship. That sounds like merit to me. That is not really discussed by the Right is it?

Lets say you are a medical student from Haiti who is fortunate enough to study at Standford and while there you are top of your class and lead research in breakthrough areas. That would likely qualify you as a good candidate to stay in this country under a merit based system, correct? Lets say you leave school and continue your work for 10 years and earn your citizenship while being a leader in your field. That is excellent. Lets say you left your entire family in Haiti and they have been living very hard lives for the past 20 years while you've prospered in America. You want to be closer to them but you only get to see them a couple times a year when you are able to fly there and visit. Is it a fair desire for you to want the ability to sponsor your parents, grandparents, brothers and sisters to come over and live closer to you? Doesn't the appeal of being closer to family lead to positive results through stronger relationships and unity? This kind of unification is the point of the dreaded "Chain Migration" so I don't think it should be eliminated. Perhaps we find a better balance, i'm open to the conversation, but lets be honest about it. People are generally better off when they are near a strong family unit.

Right now I believe our immigration system is comprised of 60% chain/family reunification migration and 40% merit based migration. Last I checked, lottery was responsible for 50k visas out of 20 million applications. That is 50k out of 1 million immigrants. Did you know that based on the conversations that we've been having?

 

[iceberg]

i don't know enough about the immigration system to counter. i'm here to learn more about it so thank you.

 

[Coyote]

Anderson Cooper grew up in a mixed neighborhood.
View attachment 171769
his residence now
at 84 West 3rd Street in GV section of Manhattan, NY is exclusive, does anyone know the demographic ratio there?

Who cares? What’s your point?

They have politicized a false report and weaponized it for propaganda.
So lets see if they pass their own sniff test(own standards);
Anderson Coopers neighborhood demographics
View attachment 171771

Again, who gives a shit about what neighborhood he lives in? That has nothing to do with anything.

So out of his statements, the neighborhood shouldn't be attacked. Agreed.

But what about politicizing unproven accusations?

I don't like the precedent of running to the press to attack political opponents after closed door meetings. I'll give you that. But lets also review this situation as I understand it. Please correct me if you think i'm inaccurately presenting any of these points...

1. The Prez calls for an open camera meeting on Tuesday where he expresses a desire to construct a bipartisan bill to address a 2 phase immigration reform program. He scores points on both sides of the aisle for this meeting

2. Durbin calls him on Thursday at 10am to inform him that he and 5 others have reached a bipartisan agreement on a bill that has been in development for the past 4 months. The president responds optimistically and invites Durbin and coauthor Graham over to the white house to discuss. Both congressmen feel like they have a shot at closing the deal during that meeting.

3. Durbin and Graham show up at noon to discuss the plan with the president and are unexpectedly met with Kelly, Miller and 5 other republican senators that are immigration hardliners. The tone was changed from cooperative to aggressive as the room blew up the bill.

4. Undisclosed sources report to the post about details of the meeting and a story is launched exposing the "shithole" comment and a concerning shift in Trumps motives for the immigration program. The whitehouse first owns the statement then the next day Trump vaguely denies the statement via twitter.

5. Upon hearing Trumps denial, Dubin goes public and gives his account of the meeting. His account is backed up by Graham.

6. Republican congressmen take an "I don't remember approach at first, then go public backing up the presidents claim saying that he did not make the reported statements, then change to saying that he said "shithouse" not "shithole"

If you are really interested then watch Cottons interview on Meet the Press and compare it to Durbins interview with Tapper. To me it is night and day. You can see somebody who is being dishonest and spinning as Cotton was doing IMO. Short muddled answers to direct questions with a quick change of subject or redefinition of the intent of the question he is addressing. He continuously takes it from the specific to the general which is a diversionary tactic used when trying to spin a story. Opposed to Durbin who sounded rather clear eyed in his details of events.

Again, I don't like politicalization from either side. In this case the "Trump is Racist" narrative was the politicalization and thats why I started this thread and critiqued that approach. On the other side I am all for transparency and speaking truth to power. If Trump put on one face in front of the cameras and then took a completely different tone behind close doors and proceeded to blow up a deal that he had publicly said he wanted, then I think we have a right to know that. If he doesn't want immigrants from poor countries then that is something that we the public should know.

Best synposis ever!

 

[TemplarKormac]

Looking back on this thread, I must say I thoroughly enjoyed that debate. Just the right amount of sincerity and emotion!

We must do this again sometime!

 

[Coyote]

Looking back on this thread, I must say I thoroughly enjoyed that debate. Just the right amount of sincerity and emotion!

We must do this again sometime!

I have also....and it was informational, how refreshing

 

[BrokeLoser]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

I say fuck all the spin, the bullshit trivia and pussified nobility...let’s call it what it really is and call it TRUTH.

You're gonna have to do better than that. What specifically do you think is the TRUTH?

Brown and Black communities, cities, states and nations are all in fact SHITHOLES....this isn’t coincidental...places are what the people are.

 

[OldLady]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played in this case. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

A year and a half later, how do you feel now, Slade3200? I didn't catch the date on the OP until I had already read it--and I thought you were talking about the Squad and Cummings. Perfect fit.

Do you still feel this way?

 

[Mac1958]

Savages with IQs of 70? What the fuck is wrong with you? Haitians are great people and they lost over 300,000 lives 8 years ago during an earthquake. 1.5 million people lost their homes. Let me say that again... 300,000 lives lost, 1.5 million homes. Take a minute and think about that compared to our great disaster that claimed 3000 lives. Just reflect on that for a minute.... if you don’t feel like a complete piece of shit for making the comments that you have in this thread then you need to go back and reflect some more.

And then they complain when confronted.
.