Dems got the Trump Racism thing all wrong

[Slade3200]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played in this case. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yeah, We are likely to turn some moderate Dems into alt-right crazies if we keep telling Trump that he is making racist statements. We'd better cool it.

 

[Slade3200]

Yeah, We are likely to turn some moderate Dems into alt-right crazies if we keep telling Trump that he is making racist statements. We'd better cool it.

Just looking for honest conversation. Do you object to that?

 

[Reasonable]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

 

[John Shaw]

Right on the money .

 

[forkup]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

 

[John Shaw]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

Whether he is or is not a racist is irrelevant. In this particular case, he said nothing racist. Race was not mentioned. Unless you think every single person from Haiti is black, and your assumption is that Haiti is a shithole because black people live there. In which case, I think you are the racist.

 

[Slade3200]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

It is counter productive in my opinion when you take a discriminatory comment that isn't racist on the face and turn it into a 24/7 multi-day headline of our Racist president. All it does is hyper polarize each side. You may strengthen your opposition to Trump but you are also strengthening his supporters in their opposition to you. The wings get stronger and the middle stays extremely frustrated.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

I say fuck all the spin, the bullshit trivia and pussified nobility...let’s call it what it really is and call it TRUTH.

 

[Coyote]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

It is counter productive in my opinion when you take a discriminatory comment that isn't racist on the face and turn it into a 24/7 multi-day headline of our Racist president. All it does is hyper polarize each side. You may strengthen your opposition to Trump but you are also strengthening his supporters in their opposition to you. The wings get stronger and the middle stays extremely frustrated.

Prior to this, I did not take his comments as racist so much as ignorant.

The latest one - when he takes all of Africa (almost entirely black) and Haiti (black) - and lumps them into one category "shithole" while holding up Norway...is very disconcerting.

It is difficult to take it any other way....

 

[Slade3200]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

 

[Slade3200]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

I say fuck all the spin, the bullshit trivia and pussified nobility...let’s call it what it really is and call it TRUTH.

You're gonna have to do better than that. What specifically do you think is the TRUTH?

 

[dcbl]

Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

I am not spinning anything, but I know many are

my point is that sharing those comments from a closed door meeting is damaging to the best interests of our country

dems are turning into "sky screamers"

and they are hypocritical fools

in one breath they call Trump a racist and Nazi; then turn around and vote to give him more authority to pry into people's private lives without a warrant

if he is what they say he is; why not fight something like that tooth and nail?

I am not saying that repubs are perfect or even good; but it is really easy to find examples of democrats doing things that undermine American interests (Hillary selling favors for donations, Durbin leaking Trump's comments - 2 right there, actually more than 2 because Hillary selling influence for cash was a perpetual thing) - republicans? not quite as easy (I would argue that any warrantless intrusions go against our interests; but that is a different debate)

article that is worth a read to support my claims about democrat hypocrisy - The Same Democrats Who Denounce Donald Trump as a Lawless, Treasonous Authoritarian Just Voted to Give Him Vast Warrantless Spying Powers

 

[Slade3200]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

It is counter productive in my opinion when you take a discriminatory comment that isn't racist on the face and turn it into a 24/7 multi-day headline of our Racist president. All it does is hyper polarize each side. You may strengthen your opposition to Trump but you are also strengthening his supporters in their opposition to you. The wings get stronger and the middle stays extremely frustrated.

Prior to this, I did not take his comments as racist so much as ignorant.

The latest one - when he takes all of Africa (almost entirely black) and Haiti (black) - and lumps them into one category "shithole" while holding up Norway...is very disconcerting.

It is difficult to take it any other way....

But you realize he is talking about 3rd world countries and poor, uneducated people right? He brought up Norway, i'm assuming, because he just met with their leader and they are one of the richest countries in the world. In Trumps mind he is thinking, I want to bring rich, smart, successful people over here, not poor, uneducated, 3rd world people... Get what i'm saying?

 

[basquebromance]

What Trump should've said:

"Too many 3rd world countries ARE shitholes. We welcome ANY who yearn to be free and want to escape these shitholes. What we don't welcome are those who want to come here seeking government handouts. And we must be more careful with who we let in."

 

[dcbl]

Yeah, We are likely to turn some moderate Dems into alt-right crazies if we keep telling Trump that he is making racist statements. We'd better cool it.

Just looking for honest conversation. Do you object to that?

the honest answer is that clear thinking people that are not political junkies will migrate towards Trump as they continue to see the histrionic and unreasonable reactions to Trump

the allegations and attacks on Trump border on laughable and wind up making "moderates" less likely to believe anything said about him

2 scoops; Trump had 2 scoops of ice cream when everybody else only got 1

he called Haiti a shithole? Well, Haiti is a shithole; and no we don't want people coming here that add nothing of value

these types of attacks will backfire

 

[Slade3200]

Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

I am not spinning anything, but I know many are

my point is that sharing those comments from a closed door meeting is damaging to the best interests of our country

dems are turning into "sky screamers"

and they are hypocritical fools

in one breath they call Trump a racist and Nazi; then turn around and vote to give him more authority to pry into people's private lives without a warrant

if he is what they say he is; why not fight something like that tooth and nail?

I am not saying that repubs are perfect or even good; but it is really easy to find examples of democrats doing things that undermine American interests (Hillary selling favors for donations, Durbin leaking Trump's comments - 2 right there, actually more than 2 because Hillary selling influence for cash was a perpetual thing) - republicans? not quite as easy (I would argue that any warrantless intrusions go against our interests; but that is a different debate)

article that is worth a read to support my claims about democrat hypocrisy - The Same Democrats Who Denounce Donald Trump as a Lawless, Treasonous Authoritarian Just Voted to Give Him Vast Warrantless Spying Powers

I don't know why you try so hard to point out Dem hypocrisy when Reps are attacked. Im sure you hate it when its done to you, and how does it help the conversation? It is very juvenile. Both political parties are extremely hypocritical because they are trying to progress their agenda and decent standards of privacy, honesty, and fair intensions are pretty much out the window. It is now a dirty fight for the dishonesty and hypocrisy are only going to go up from both sides.

 

[John Shaw]

What Trump should've said:

"Too many 3rd world countries ARE shitholes. We welcome ANY who yearn to be free and want to escape these shitholes. What we don't welcome are those who want to come here seeking government handouts. And we must be more careful with who we let in."

You could write a novel dwarfing W&P that contains only what Trump "should have said" throughout his life. Or even just the last 2 years.

 

[dcbl]

"Too many 3rd world countries ARE shitholes. We welcome ANY who yearn to be free and want to escape these shitholes. What we don't welcome are those who want to come here seeking government handouts. And we must be more careful with who we let in."

he was in a closed door meeting of people allegedly seeking compromise and solutions

Durbin obviously cares more about political theater than he does about his country

and this particular incident will wind up helping Trump with the general public

Trump's comment was not supposed to be public

 

[Coyote]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

It is counter productive in my opinion when you take a discriminatory comment that isn't racist on the face and turn it into a 24/7 multi-day headline of our Racist president. All it does is hyper polarize each side. You may strengthen your opposition to Trump but you are also strengthening his supporters in their opposition to you. The wings get stronger and the middle stays extremely frustrated.

Prior to this, I did not take his comments as racist so much as ignorant.

The latest one - when he takes all of Africa (almost entirely black) and Haiti (black) - and lumps them into one category "shithole" while holding up Norway...is very disconcerting.

It is difficult to take it any other way....

But you realize he is talking about poor countries and poor, uneducated people right? He brought up Norway, i'm assuming, because he just met with their leader and they are one of the richest countries in the world. In Trumps mind he is thinking, I want to bring rich, smart, successful people over here, not poor, uneducated, 3rd world people... Get what i'm saying?

I do get what you are saying...it's just hard to think of what he said without a racial overtone - there are many poor countries not in Africa and not Haiti...former E. European Soviet Bloc nations for example...Asian countries....large swathes of India....

Either what he said was racist or - horribly ignorant.