Christians...justify hell

[editec]

Hell is the final abode for people who do not buy into the religion that is Christianity. For a Christian to say hell is metaphorical or that they don't believe in a hoof fed- devil, to me it's like saying Superman is real, but Batman is just a character in a book.

A "loving", compassionate God creates hell. That idea just doesn't sit right with me first of all. Jesus himself alludes to hell often in his ever so foggy parables. "There is constant weeping, and knashing of teeth". Mark 16:16 sums up Christianity perfectly:

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not will be condemned.

Those are Jesus' words.

Hell is a superb idea to further and attract followers to any idea. Without the idea of punishment, any religion would break in shambles. If there is no punishment for not following bibleGod, what's the incentive to be by him? I liken it to if you never, ever yelled or scolded your kids. When the time comes for mischief, they will think to themselves, "Geese, my parents never punished me, so what do I have to lose by acting up?"

Christians insist that we have free will, but if we don't use it just the way the character biblegod wants, we're to be tortured. It's a bit like if a robber points a gun at your temple and says, "Gimme your wallet, but you can choose not to, but if you don't I will kill you."

That's kinda what we get. BibleGod doesn't give us free will here, as we can see he doesn't respect our choice IF we choose to not believe in him. If he did, the truth of the matter is he would just accept it and have a nice day. But this is not what we see in Christian theology. It's God acts as the jealous stalker ex-boyfriend, who so desperately needs love, he needs that sense of ownership, and if he doesn't get it, he resorts to killing the person. (hell)

Hell is an unimaginable, terrible, horrendous concept. The mere idea that a hampster, let alone a human being will undergo endless torture is straight fucked up, and definitely makes one question the "loving" God attribute. Infinite torture is a punishment in access of anything anyone deserves. I don't care if your the scum of the earth, NOBODY deserves endless torment. No purpose is served by it except divine vengeance. It's kinda like getting caught stealing a Snicker's bar and getting a life sentence for it. It's totally stupid and barbaric. How can anyone be punished infinitely for crimes they commit in a human lifetime? It just doesn't wash.

If you're 13 years old and just now struggling with the inconsistencies of your religion, that's pretty deep.

But as to you telling us what Christians believe?

My only question is which Christians are you talking about?

The ones you happen to know?

You know an infintesmially small number of Christians, sport, compared to the billion or so who exist.

I can assure you that they all do not share the same belief system regardless of how they identify themselves.

If you doubt THAT, read the history of Chistendom for the last 2100 years.

 

[hipeter924]

If you don't want to worship God then don't. I don't have to justify anything to you. If after we die and there is no God then fine, we just stay in the ground. But if there is a God, you're fucked! You know this and can't handle it.

Besides, if you were really tough, you'd question Muslims who want to cut your head off, not Christians who are polite to you.

I don't see it that way. If there is a god, then its time to kill another tyrant.

 

[AllieBaba]

And those of us who repent of our sins and come to Him will be changed from our state of misery to a state of Happiness.

So you admit you are miserable.
You need to learn to be happy in the here and now, like me.

No, Avatar is saying those who aren't saved are miserable.

It's pretty evident when you read the posts.

 

[AllieBaba]

If you don't want to worship God then don't. I don't have to justify anything to you. If after we die and there is no God then fine, we just stay in the ground. But if there is a God, you're fucked! You know this and can't handle it.

Besides, if you were really tough, you'd question Muslims who want to cut your head off, not Christians who are polite to you.

I don't see it that way. If there is a god, then its time to kill another tyrant.

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

 

[edthecynic]

If you don't want to worship God then don't. I don't have to justify anything to you. If after we die and there is no God then fine, we just stay in the ground. But if there is a God, you're fucked! You know this and can't handle it.

Besides, if you were really tough, you'd question Muslims who want to cut your head off, not Christians who are polite to you.

I don't see it that way. If there is a god, then its time to kill another tyrant.

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

You wish!

How miserable can you get?

Nu 25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't see it that way. If there is a god, then its time to kill another tyrant.

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

You wish!

How miserable can you get?

Nu 25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

I'm not miserable at all. I have God in my life; love my kids, job, life, and am confident of where I'll spend eternity.

As I said, it's evident from the posts who the miserable posters are.

 

[hipeter924]

If you don't want to worship God then don't. I don't have to justify anything to you. If after we die and there is no God then fine, we just stay in the ground. But if there is a God, you're fucked! You know this and can't handle it.

Besides, if you were really tough, you'd question Muslims who want to cut your head off, not Christians who are polite to you.

I don't see it that way. If there is a god, then its time to kill another tyrant.

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

Which is why I always choose Buddhism over Christianity, you don't burn in hell but get another chance...something the Christian god never gives you. But saying that, if the Christian god exists he is heavily outnumbered by 'evil people' so his downfall as a tyrant should be easy.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't see it that way. If there is a god, then its time to kill another tyrant.

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

Which is why I always choose Buddhism over Christianity, you don't burn in hell but get another chance...something the Christian god never gives you.

Christianity is all about second chances.

But the fact that you choose Buddhism doesn't mean there's no hell. You guys think that you can create reality based on your own perception.

You can't.

 

[hipeter924]

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

Which is why I always choose Buddhism over Christianity, you don't burn in hell but get another chance...something the Christian god never gives you.

Christianity is all about second chances.

But the fact that you choose Buddhism doesn't mean there's no hell. You guys think that you can create reality based on your own perception.

You can't.

I never meant there isn't hell, but that you don't just burn in hell you get a second chance aka you don't stay there forever. As for reality, it can't be fully proven (no objective agent). But regardless I don't like people or gods telling me how to live, so I am quite happy ignoring them when I can.

 

[edthecynic]

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

You wish!

How miserable can you get?

Nu 25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

I'm not miserable at all. I have God in my life; love my kids, job, life, and am confident of where I'll spend eternity.

As I said, it's evident from the posts who the miserable posters are.

Yes, it is quite evident from YOUR "misery loves company" post!
Get it?

 

[Sky Dancer]

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

Which is why I always choose Buddhism over Christianity, you don't burn in hell but get another chance...something the Christian god never gives you.

Christianity is all about second chances.

But the fact that you choose Buddhism doesn't mean there's no hell. You guys think that you can create reality based on your own perception.

You can't.

Buddhists talk about hell realms. Truth is we all create reality based on our perception. We discuss whether the hell realms are 'real' or not. One teaching for wisdom says they're not, one teaching for skillful means says there are. Both are true and useful.

 

[kal-el]

But if there is a God, you're fucked! You know this and can't handle it.

Wrongo. If by chance there is a god, what if it is the Hindu god, and he's mad at hell at Christians for adulating a false god their entire lives. He's got 8 arms so that's 1 hell of a beating fella.

 

[kal-el]

After you point out where in the Bible it mentions Hell as a pace of eternal punishment I will point out why you don't know what you are talking about.

Many times in the Gospels, the character Jesus points out that hell is in fact a very real place. He constantly threatens people with weeping and knashing if teeth. In Matthew, he had a 10 verse conversation with Satan guy. Outside of the bible, the Pope certainly beleives that there's a hell:

The Australian | The Australian Homepage | TheAustralian - Hell is real and eternal: Pope

Hell is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, the Pope has said.

Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, Benedict XVI said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal damnation - the inferno".

Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more".

The Pope, who as cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was head of Catholic doctrine, noted that "forgiveness of sins" for those who repented was a cornerstone of Christian belief. He recalled that Jesus had forgiven the "woman taken in adultery" and prevented her from being stoned to death, observing: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

God had given men and women free will to choose whether "spontaneously to accept salvation ... the Christian faith is not imposed on anyone, it is a gift, an offer to mankind".

Vatican officials said the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in "straightforward" language "like a parish priest". He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God", to be understood "symbolically rather than physically".

Agostino Paravicini Bagliani, a church historian, said the Pope was "right to remind us that hell is not something to be put on one side" as an inconvenient or embarrassing aspect of belief. It was described by St Matthew as a place of "everlasting fire" (Matthew xxv, 41).

"The problem is not only that our sense of sin has declined, but also that the world wars and totalitarianisms of the 20th century created a hell on earth as bad as anything we can imagine in the afterlife," Professor Bagliani said.

In 1999, pope John Paul II said heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God, which is the goal of human life".

Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself ... Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".

In October, the Pope indicated that limbo, supposed since medieval times to be a "halfway house" between heaven and hell, was "only a theological hypothesis" and not a "definitive truth of the faith".

Take a look at the original languages and you will see that they refer to the grave, not punishment.

In the Original OT you're right. But in the NT, Jesus would have to take issue with you there bud.

The reward for those who meet God's standards and choose to follow him, the "punishment" for those who choose not to do so is death.

And I suppose that you think that's perfectly fair? A human being learns the difference between right and wrong by the age of 5 (at the youngest).So, basically what we get is either endless pleasure or endless torture based on our actions in 70 years. An infinite amount of pain or pleasure based on things done in a human lifetime. Anything but fair amigo.

You do not detest the god of the Bible, you detest the God of Christendom. Learn about who God really is before you judge Him.

Actually, I was a Christian for some 13 years, and have read the bible a few times. I abhor the thugish, tyrannical, control freak that is sketched as the bible's main character. I don't beleive that any real God resembles that at all. The bible reads as a movie script from a rob zombie flick.

 

[kal-el]

If you're 13 years old and just now struggling with the inconsistencies of your religion, that's pretty deep.

But as to you telling us what Christians believe?

My only question is which Christians are you talking about?

The ones you happen to know?

You know an infintesmially small number of Christians, sport, compared to the billion or so who exist.

I can assure you that they all do not share the same belief system regardless of how they identify themselves.

If you doubt THAT, read the history of Chistendom for the last 2100 years.

Do you not beleive that if you don't beleive in Jesus, you will be tortured forever? If no, then that goes directly against what the character Jesus said in Mark 16:16. I have another question. Let's say you are a good and you earn some Christian merit badges, and go to heaven. Now if you have knowledge that your family is in hell roasting like rotisserie chickens, how can you be anything but sad, but heaven is a place of happiness? Does biblegod wipe your memories away? And if so isn't that infringing on fw?

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't see it that way. If there is a god, then its time to kill another tyrant.

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

Which is why I always choose Buddhism over Christianity, you don't burn in hell but get another chance...something the Christian god never gives you. But saying that, if the Christian god exists he is heavily outnumbered by 'evil people' so his downfall as a tyrant should be easy.

I was unaware that we had a choice whether it comes to how the world is. If that's the case. I will choose to have a billion dollars and a swimming pool and enjoy the rest of my summer.

Oh, and Christianity is exactly about Second Chances.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Do you not beleive that if you don't beleive in Jesus, you will be tortured forever? If no, then that goes directly against what the character Jesus said in Mark 16:16. I have another question. Let's say you are a good and you earn some Christian merit badges, and go to heaven. Now if you have knowledge that your family is in hell roasting like rotisserie chickens, how can you be anything but sad, but heaven is a place of happiness? Does biblegod wipe your memories away? And if so isn't that infringing on fw?

Hell is the Absence of God for Eternity.

We studied it once, I wish I could explain it better, bet when translating from the original text, but Hell is when God withholds His Hand and keeps you from His presence for Eternity.

.

 

[kal-el]

Do you not beleive that if you don't beleive in Jesus, you will be tortured forever? If no, then that goes directly against what the character Jesus said in Mark 16:16. I have another question. Let's say you are a good and you earn some Christian merit badges, and go to heaven. Now if you have knowledge that your family is in hell roasting like rotisserie chickens, how can you be anything but sad, but heaven is a place of happiness? Does biblegod wipe your memories away? And if so isn't that infringing on fw?

Hell is the Absence of God for Eternity.

We studied it once, I wish I could explain it better, bet when translating from the original text, but Hell is when God withholds His Hand and keeps you from His presence for Eternity.

.

So I take it that the biblegod is not omnipresent then? I don’t quite get it, maybe you can shed some light on the subject. If biblegod withholds his hand and keeps you from his presence for eternity, doesn’t that defeat the purpose of him being omniscient (all knowing)? At the onset of creation, when the biblegod made everybody, he had to know who was going to heaven and who was going to hell. So, why not save some souls and not make the people destined for a fiery abode, or better yet, biblegod could redeem them instead of tossing them in hell.? I'm just trying to figure out why so many beleive in that character from the bible. If you can't have a little fun with your faith, I'd say it's time to get a new religion.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Do you not beleive that if you don't beleive in Jesus, you will be tortured forever? If no, then that goes directly against what the character Jesus said in Mark 16:16. I have another question. Let's say you are a good and you earn some Christian merit badges, and go to heaven. Now if you have knowledge that your family is in hell roasting like rotisserie chickens, how can you be anything but sad, but heaven is a place of happiness? Does biblegod wipe your memories away? And if so isn't that infringing on fw?

Hell is the Absence of God for Eternity.

We studied it once, I wish I could explain it better, bet when translating from the original text, but Hell is when God withholds His Hand and keeps you from His presence for Eternity.

.

So I take it that the biblegod is not omnipresent then? I don’t quite get it, maybe you can shed some light on the subject. If biblegod withholds his hand and keeps you from his presence for eternity, doesn’t that defeat the purpose of him being omniscient (all knowing)? At the onset of creation, when the biblegod made everybody, he had to know who was going to heaven and who was going to hell. So, why not save some souls and not make the people destined for a fiery abode, or better yet, biblegod could redeem them instead of tossing them in hell.? I'm just trying to figure out why so many beleive in that character from the bible. If you can't have a little fun with your faith, I'd say it's time to get a new religion.

Well, I am not a theologian or real great at explaining this but I will, let's use a similar principal, when one teaches their child to ride a bike for the first time without training wheels, the father is there but the child must take off on his own, the child may fall and get hurt, but the father is there. I would can only guess that is the same with God, we are his children and He gives us free choice to take off without those wheels, while He is there with us we can get into trouble, the same way with our soul, we have the choice to obey Him or not. So God is everywhere, what I meant was Hell is Eternity without God, was our Souls are not in His direct Presence (as in Heaven), our Souls will be happy in Heaven but not Happy if our Soul is not in His Direct Presence, thus Hell is being apart from the joys of being in the Direct presence of God for Eternity.

.

 

[kal-el]

Well, I am not a theologian or real great at explaining this but I will, let's use a similar principal, when one teaches their child to ride a bike for the first time without training wheels, the father is there but the child must take off on his own, the child may fall and get hurt, but the father is there. I would can only guess that is the same with God, we are his children and He gives us free choice to take off without those wheels, while He is there with us we can get into trouble, the same way with our soul, we have the choice to obey Him or not. So God is everywhere, what I meant was Hell is Eternity without God, was our Souls are not in His direct Presence (as in Heaven), our Souls will be happy in Heaven but not Happy if our Soul is not in His Direct Presence, thus Hell is being apart from the joys of being in the Direct presence of God for Eternity.

.

Gremlin, I get what you are trying to say and kudos for sticking up for what you beleive in but if people get mad because people like me ask questions and critique their religion, are they getting upset because their religion doesn't stand up to scrutiny? If Christianity is 100% true, it should be absolutely bullet-proof, and whenever someone poses a challenge to it's doctrinal foundation, it should be quickly silenced with irrefutable facts and logic. Do you see where I am coming from?

Now in your analogy, the father isn't all knowing, so he sees everything as it is. BibleGod is, so he would know ahead of the game if the child would fall off the bike or get hit by a truck. In that scenario, would a loving biblegod give the child fw to choose to ride the bike, if he knew for 100% absolute certainty that the child would get seriously hurt?

Ok, you said that hell is being apart from the direct presence of biblegod, but before that you said that he is everywhere. Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in that?

 

[hortysir]

Hell is the final abode for people who do not buy into the religion that is Christianity. For a Christian to say hell is metaphorical or that they don't believe in a hoof fed- devil, to me it's like saying Superman is real, but Batman is just a character in a book.

A "loving", compassionate God creates hell. That idea just doesn't sit right with me first of all. Jesus himself alludes to hell often in his ever so foggy parables. "There is constant weeping, and knashing of teeth". Mark 16:16 sums up Christianity perfectly:

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not will be condemned.

Those are Jesus' words.

Hell is a superb idea to further and attract followers to any idea. Without the idea of punishment, any religion would break in shambles. If there is no punishment for not following bibleGod, what's the incentive to be by him? I liken it to if you never, ever yelled or scolded your kids. When the time comes for mischief, they will think to themselves, "Geese, my parents never punished me, so what do I have to lose by acting up?"

Christians insist that we have free will, but if we don't use it just the way the character biblegod wants, we're to be tortured. It's a bit like if a robber points a gun at your temple and says, "Gimme your wallet, but you can choose not to, but if you don't I will kill you."

That's kinda what we get. BibleGod doesn't give us free will here, as we can see he doesn't respect our choice IF we choose to not believe in him. If he did, the truth of the matter is he would just accept it and have a nice day. But this is not what we see in Christian theology. It's God acts as the jealous stalker ex-boyfriend, who so desperately needs love, he needs that sense of ownership, and if he doesn't get it, he resorts to killing the person. (hell)

Hell is an unimaginable, terrible, horrendous concept. The mere idea that a hampster, let alone a human being will undergo endless torture is straight fucked up, and definitely makes one question the "loving" God attribute. Infinite torture is a punishment in access of anything anyone deserves. I don't care if your the scum of the earth, NOBODY deserves endless torment. No purpose is served by it except divine vengeance. It's kinda like getting caught stealing a Snicker's bar and getting a life sentence for it. It's totally stupid and barbaric. How can anyone be punished infinitely for crimes they commit in a human lifetime? It just doesn't wash.

And you talk about how Christians interpret the Bible???

Tortured?
Burned for eternity?

Scripture?