Christians...justify hell

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by kal-el, Jul 20, 2010.

  1. kal-el
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    kal-el American Patriot

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    Hell is the final abode for people who do not buy into the religion that is Christianity. For a Christian to say hell is metaphorical or that they don't believe in a hoof fed- devil, to me it's like saying Superman is real, but Batman is just a character in a book.

    A "loving", compassionate God creates hell. That idea just doesn't sit right with me first of all. Jesus himself alludes to hell often in his ever so foggy parables. "There is constant weeping, and knashing of teeth". Mark 16:16 sums up Christianity perfectly:
    Those are Jesus' words.

    Hell is a superb idea to further and attract followers to any idea. Without the idea of punishment, any religion would break in shambles. If there is no punishment for not following bibleGod, what's the incentive to be by him? I liken it to if you never, ever yelled or scolded your kids. When the time comes for mischief, they will think to themselves, "Geese, my parents never punished me, so what do I have to lose by acting up?"

    Christians insist that we have free will, but if we don't use it just the way the character biblegod wants, we're to be tortured. It's a bit like if a robber points a gun at your temple and says, "Gimme your wallet, but you can choose not to, but if you don't I will kill you."

    That's kinda what we get. BibleGod doesn't give us free will here, as we can see he doesn't respect our choice IF we choose to not believe in him. If he did, the truth of the matter is he would just accept it and have a nice day. But this is not what we see in Christian theology. It's God acts as the jealous stalker ex-boyfriend, who so desperately needs love, he needs that sense of ownership, and if he doesn't get it, he resorts to killing the person. (hell)

    Hell is an unimaginable, terrible, horrendous concept. The mere idea that a hampster, let alone a human being will undergo endless torture is straight fucked up, and definitely makes one question the "loving" God attribute. Infinite torture is a punishment in access of anything anyone deserves. I don't care if your the scum of the earth, NOBODY deserves endless torment. No purpose is served by it except divine vengeance. It's kinda like getting caught stealing a Snicker's bar and getting a life sentence for it. It's totally stupid and barbaric. How can anyone be punished infinitely for crimes they commit in a human lifetime? It just doesn't wash.
     
  2. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    If you don't want to worship God then don't. I don't have to justify anything to you. If after we die and there is no God then fine, we just stay in the ground. But if there is a God, you're fucked! You know this and can't handle it.

    Besides, if you were really tough, you'd question Muslims who want to cut your head off, not Christians who are polite to you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010
  3. kal-el
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    kal-el American Patriot

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    Who says that I don't worship God? I just detest the concept of the God of the bible, that's all.

    Yea you're real polite to me amigo. Anyways, the God of the Koran is just as skitzo and a megalomaniacal control freak as the biblegod. Christians and Muslims both beleive in fairy stories, so they have that in common.
     
  4. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    After you point out where in the Bible it mentions Hell as a pace of eternal punishment I will point out why you don't know what you are talking about. Take a look at the original languages and you will see that they refer to the grave, not punishment. The reward for those who meet God's standards and choose to follow him, the "punishment" for those who choose not to do so is death.

    You do not detest the god of the Bible, you detest the God of Christendom. Learn about who God really is before you judge Him.
     
  5. LiveUninhibited
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    LiveUninhibited Caffeine Junkie

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    Were you trying to exemplify this? :lol:

    Christians and Muslims have taken turns being backwards over the ages. Muslims might be all nostalgic about the middle ages now, when you could stone your daughter for being a slut, but Christians were the backwards ones in the middle ages, with a total contempt for reason and intellect.

    Pascal's Wager, i.e. your argument, is pretty silly. Since we know that reason and scientific inquiry can make the world a better place (even Jesus acknowledged that, "... they know not what they do," i.e. evil from ignorance) we would have to assume that a wise god would try to test to see who would give in to believing what they want to believe rather than what is reasonable. Hence Christianity would be a tool to weed out the reasonable from the unreasonable. How do you know the higher power would send the reasonable to hell rather than the unreasonable?

    In reality I don't really believe in a higher power, but if one existed and were benevolent and wise, it would not resemble the one Christians describe.
     
  6. Epsilon Delta
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    Epsilon Delta Jedi Master

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    Ever heard of a guy named Marcion of Sinope? He had similar complaints, so what he did is that he wrote up the very first canon Bible, and it was very different - it only had a rewritten version of the Gospel of Luke and some Pauline epistles. He totally rejected the angry God of the Old Testament and Revelations and other such things. The bible didn't really have any miracles of crazy magic, and Jesus is represented more as a spirit-messanger from God instead of a real human. This is the other cool thing about Marcion, which isn't really very unique and many other early christian sects and other religions have this, but: He thought the world was so shitty, that it couldn't possibly have been created by the real God, so the real creator of the world was just some lesser, evil God, the one everyone else worshipped and the real God was some sort of unimaginable goodness that sort of hangs out.

    (Not that I believe any of this, but early Christianity is fascinating. All of this happened in the 2nd century, and Today's Bible didn't even come about as it is until the 4th Century.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010
  7. Mad Scientist
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    Oh wow, you're so much smarter than all of the morons who worship the imaginary spaghetti monster in the sky aren't you? :rolleyes:

    If you were truly happy about the decisions you've made about God and Religion, you wouldn't need to make these religion bashing threads that you do. Your lack of self confidence shines through.

    Freedom of religion is guaranteed in the Constitution. If you don't like it, too fuckin' bad for you. And no, my attitude does not go against Christian teaching. There is nothing in the Bible that states "Thou must bend over and take it up the ass from religion haters and enjoy it".
     
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  8. LiveUninhibited
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    I have met Christians who are more intelligent than me in some ways, but there are many kinds of intelligence. Some people are selectively rational. The problem with the anti-Pascal's wager that I presented is that I don't actually believe anybody should be sent to hell or be allowed to cease to exist. But if something like that must be done, an intelligent god certainly wouldn't do it on the basis of who has the most faith.

    But I'd rather figure out what the truth is and learn to accept it rather than simply believe what makes me most happy.

    I don't start a lot of threads in general (starting a thread means you create a thread and are the first poster). But this isn't really about me, is it? It isn't about you either. It's about Pascal's Wager being an invalid argument in the context of reconciling a benevolent god who sends people to be tortured forever (or consigns them to non-existence).

    LOL. Taking away religious freedom would, if anything, strengthen religion. So no, I wouldn't attempt that even if I were the decider. Can I argue against your religion? Yes I can. Can you defend it without simply bashing me? Not so sure.
     
  9. LuckyDan
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    LuckyDan Sublime

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    Justify hell? Easy.

    Hitler.
     
  10. LiveUninhibited
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    LiveUninhibited Caffeine Junkie

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    "Fair" would be for him to be forced to endure the same magnitude of suffering as he was responsible for. While that would take millions of years, it still would not amount to eternal torture. Nobody actually deserves eternal torture or bliss.
     

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