Christians...justify hell

[froggy]

Hell is the final abode for people who do not buy into the religion that is Christianity. For a Christian to say hell is metaphorical or that they don't believe in a hoof fed- devil, to me it's like saying Superman is real, but Batman is just a character in a book.

A "loving", compassionate God creates hell. That idea just doesn't sit right with me first of all. Jesus himself alludes to hell often in his ever so foggy parables. "There is constant weeping, and knashing of teeth". Mark 16:16 sums up Christianity perfectly:

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not will be condemned.

Those are Jesus' words.

Hell is a superb idea to further and attract followers to any idea. Without the idea of punishment, any religion would break in shambles. If there is no punishment for not following bibleGod, what's the incentive to be by him? I liken it to if you never, ever yelled or scolded your kids. When the time comes for mischief, they will think to themselves, "Geese, my parents never punished me, so what do I have to lose by acting up?"

Christians insist that we have free will, but if we don't use it just the way the character biblegod wants, we're to be tortured. It's a bit like if a robber points a gun at your temple and says, "Gimme your wallet, but you can choose not to, but if you don't I will kill you."

That's kinda what we get. BibleGod doesn't give us free will here, as we can see he doesn't respect our choice IF we choose to not believe in him. If he did, the truth of the matter is he would just accept it and have a nice day. But this is not what we see in Christian theology. It's God acts as the jealous stalker ex-boyfriend, who so desperately needs love, he needs that sense of ownership, and if he doesn't get it, he resorts to killing the person. (hell)

Hell is an unimaginable, terrible, horrendous concept. The mere idea that a hampster, let alone a human being will undergo endless torture is straight fucked up, and definitely makes one question the "loving" God attribute. Infinite torture is a punishment in access of anything anyone deserves. I don't care if your the scum of the earth, NOBODY deserves endless torment. No purpose is served by it except divine vengeance. It's kinda like getting caught stealing a Snicker's bar and getting a life sentence for it. It's totally stupid and barbaric. How can anyone be punished infinitely for crimes they commit in a human lifetime? It just doesn't wash.

If they wanted you to go there, why would they work so hard trying to prevent you from sending yourself there.

 

[kal-el]

If they wanted you to go there, why would they work so hard trying to prevent you from sending yourself there.

froggy, you talk as if you think humans choose to go to hell. I just don't see how that's the case. I know of noone that would choose neverending torment and fire.

 

[edthecynic]

Hell is the Absence of God for Eternity.

We studied it once, I wish I could explain it better, bet when translating from the original text, but Hell is when God withholds His Hand and keeps you from His presence for Eternity.

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So I take it that the biblegod is not omnipresent then? I don’t quite get it, maybe you can shed some light on the subject. If biblegod withholds his hand and keeps you from his presence for eternity, doesn’t that defeat the purpose of him being omniscient (all knowing)? At the onset of creation, when the biblegod made everybody, he had to know who was going to heaven and who was going to hell. So, why not save some souls and not make the people destined for a fiery abode, or better yet, biblegod could redeem them instead of tossing them in hell.? I'm just trying to figure out why so many beleive in that character from the bible. If you can't have a little fun with your faith, I'd say it's time to get a new religion.

Well, I am not a theologian or real great at explaining this but I will, let's use a similar principal, when one teaches their child to ride a bike for the first time without training wheels, the father is there but the child must take off on his own, the child may fall and get hurt, but the father is there. I would can only guess that is the same with God, we are his children and He gives us free choice to take off without those wheels, while He is there with us we can get into trouble, the same way with our soul, we have the choice to obey Him or not. So God is everywhere, what I meant was Hell is Eternity without God, was our Souls are not in His direct Presence (as in Heaven), our Souls will be happy in Heaven but not Happy if our Soul is not in His Direct Presence, thus Hell is being apart from the joys of being in the Direct presence of God for Eternity.

I would seriously question the claim that mankind will be happy in the presence of God. If anything, the story of Adam says that we will be "alone" in the presence of God for eternity.

God is loneliness!

Consider this, the ONLY man to know what it was like to be in a in a heavenly state of physical perfection, without sin, in paradise, and one with God was declared to be so "alone" it was "not good" by no less of an authority than God himself.

Chronologically, Adam was not separated from God by sin until AFTER Eve was created. So BEFORE Eve was created, Adam was in a heavenly state of physical perfection, without sin, in paradise, and one with God.

So how could Adam have been so "alone" it was "not good" BEFORE he was separated from God by sin??????
God saw Adam was lacking a mate and created Eve, but how could Adam have been lacking anything while he was without sin and one with God??????

Gen 2: 18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

The bible says that in heaven we will have no mate, so heaven will be the eternal loneliness of being one with God.

Matthew 22: 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Friends will keep you sane, Love could fill your heart, A lover can warm your bed, But lonely is the soul without a mate.
- David Pratt

Heaven will be no heaven to me if I do not meet my wife there.
- Andrew Jackson

I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse.
- Isaac Asimov

 

[froggy]

If they wanted you to go there, why would they work so hard trying to prevent you from sending yourself there.

froggy, you talk as if you think humans choose to go to hell. I just don't see how that's the case. I know of noone that would choose neverending torment and fire.

But it is your choice: Romans 10:9-10,13
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Well, I am not a theologian or real great at explaining this but I will, let's use a similar principal, when one teaches their child to ride a bike for the first time without training wheels, the father is there but the child must take off on his own, the child may fall and get hurt, but the father is there. I would can only guess that is the same with God, we are his children and He gives us free choice to take off without those wheels, while He is there with us we can get into trouble, the same way with our soul, we have the choice to obey Him or not. So God is everywhere, what I meant was Hell is Eternity without God, was our Souls are not in His direct Presence (as in Heaven), our Souls will be happy in Heaven but not Happy if our Soul is not in His Direct Presence, thus Hell is being apart from the joys of being in the Direct presence of God for Eternity.

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Gremlin, I get what you are trying to say and kudos for sticking up for what you beleive in but if people get mad because people like me ask questions and critique their religion, are they getting upset because their religion doesn't stand up to scrutiny? If Christianity is 100% true, it should be absolutely bullet-proof, and whenever someone poses a challenge to it's doctrinal foundation, it should be quickly silenced with irrefutable facts and logic. Do you see where I am coming from?

Now in your analogy, the father isn't all knowing, so he sees everything as it is. BibleGod is, so he would know ahead of the game if the child would fall off the bike or get hit by a truck. In that scenario, would a loving biblegod give the child fw to choose to ride the bike, if he knew for 100% absolute certainty that the child would get seriously hurt?

Ok, you said that hell is being apart from the direct presence of biblegod, but before that you said that he is everywhere. Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in that?

hmmm.... how can I put it.

God is everywhere, but we cannot see Him, when we pass from this Earth, our Souls will go to Heaven or Hell, if we used our Free Choice to ignore God, God will remove his hand from our Soul and we will be alone from His presence, thus in Hell. By Removing His Hand, we can no longer see Him or feel His presence, that does not mean He is not there, we cannot see or feel Him because we refused to acknowledge Him on Earth.

I am not mad at you for asking, only disappointed because I can explain things better...

Knowing God is in my heart and that is hard to explain, just as Love for a good women is hard to explain what love is


.

 

[The Infidel]

SO THERE IS A PLACE FOR YOU TO CONTIMPLATE THE ERROR OF YOUR WAYS ​

 

[Avatar4321]

Going to play devil's advocate for a second:

What is the point of contemplating the error of your ways if you can't change?

 

[Hister]

Without hell, the church has no control over you and religion would basically condone anything because there would be no punishment for not obeying the church.

Added question: Does a pedophile priest go to hell? Or can he be forgiven and still make it to heaven?

 

[hipeter924]

It doesn't matter how you see it in the end.
You're either right, or wrong. In this case, wrong. And you'll suffer for it, in this life and the next.

Which is why I always choose Buddhism over Christianity, you don't burn in hell but get another chance...something the Christian god never gives you. But saying that, if the Christian god exists he is heavily outnumbered by 'evil people' so his downfall as a tyrant should be easy.

I was unaware that we had a choice whether it comes to how the world is. If that's the case. I will choose to have a billion dollars and a swimming pool and enjoy the rest of my summer.

Oh, and Christianity is exactly about Second Chances.

Basically the way I see it, its better to have some freedom on Earth and burn for eternity than submit to a god. But since I don't follow a religion nor believe a god exists, I never worry about it at all and get on with my life.

 

[dixierat]

Hell and Heaven are the same place. What will be heaven for some will be hell for the rest and vice versa.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Basically the way I see it, its better to have some freedom on Earth and burn for eternity than submit to a god. But since I don't follow a religion nor believe a god exists, I never worry about it at all and get on with my life.

So are you saying Christians have no Fun?

On the Contrary, Life if full of Fun


.

 

[hipeter924]

Basically the way I see it, its better to have some freedom on Earth and burn for eternity than submit to a god. But since I don't follow a religion nor believe a god exists, I never worry about it at all and get on with my life.

So are you saying Christians have no Fun?

On the Contrary, Life if full of Fun


.

Nope, just saying that I don't like rules/laws in general.

 

[froggy]

Which is why I always choose Buddhism over Christianity, you don't burn in hell but get another chance...something the Christian god never gives you. But saying that, if the Christian god exists he is heavily outnumbered by 'evil people' so his downfall as a tyrant should be easy.

I was unaware that we had a choice whether it comes to how the world is. If that's the case. I will choose to have a billion dollars and a swimming pool and enjoy the rest of my summer.

Oh, and Christianity is exactly about Second Chances.

Basically the way I see it, its better to have some freedom on Earth and burn for eternity than submit to a god. But since I don't follow a religion nor believe a god exists, I never worry about it at all and get on with my life.

But do you realize how fast life goes by, here today gone tommorow.

 

[hipeter924]

I was unaware that we had a choice whether it comes to how the world is. If that's the case. I will choose to have a billion dollars and a swimming pool and enjoy the rest of my summer.

Oh, and Christianity is exactly about Second Chances.

Basically the way I see it, its better to have some freedom on Earth and burn for eternity than submit to a god. But since I don't follow a religion nor believe a god exists, I never worry about it at all and get on with my life.

But do you realize how fast life goes by, here today gone tommorow.

I could die in the next second, doesn't bother me.

 

[Avatar4321]

Without hell, the church has no control over you and religion would basically condone anything because there would be no punishment for not obeying the church.

Added question: Does a pedophile priest go to hell? Or can he be forgiven and still make it to heaven?

Anyone can be forgiven if they repent. Even you and me.

 

[Avatar4321]

Basically the way I see it, its better to have some freedom on Earth and burn for eternity than submit to a god. But since I don't follow a religion nor believe a god exists, I never worry about it at all and get on with my life.

It's not a question of whether you will submit or not, it's a question of what we submit to.

 

[Hister]

Without hell, the church has no control over you and religion would basically condone anything because there would be no punishment for not obeying the church.

Added question: Does a pedophile priest go to hell? Or can he be forgiven and still make it to heaven?

Anyone can be forgiven if they repent. Even you and me.

So why be good your whole life if you can just repent at the end?

 

[Avatar4321]

Basically the way I see it, its better to have some freedom on Earth and burn for eternity than submit to a god. But since I don't follow a religion nor believe a god exists, I never worry about it at all and get on with my life.

So are you saying Christians have no Fun?

On the Contrary, Life if full of Fun


.

Nope, just saying that I don't like rules/laws in general.

Not sure anyone does. but they are there.

 

[Avatar4321]

Without hell, the church has no control over you and religion would basically condone anything because there would be no punishment for not obeying the church.

Added question: Does a pedophile priest go to hell? Or can he be forgiven and still make it to heaven?

Anyone can be forgiven if they repent. Even you and me.

So why be good your whole life if you can just repent at the end?

Because it takes a lifetime to repent. And then some.

 

[Hister]

Anyone can be forgiven if they repent. Even you and me.

So why be good your whole life if you can just repent at the end?

Because it takes a lifetime to repent. And then some.

Once when a Hell's Angel member was gunned down, the reporter asked the priest why he gave him a christian church funeral and the priest said: he might have repented a split second before he died.

So holmes, you need to go confess your lie.