China needs to be put in their place on trade.

[Mike Dwight]

Next time China offers your a ghost city, think twice! After you own Chinese property, that's when the Chinese Got you! ?

 

[idb]

Forcing Americans to pay more for stuff will teach those Chinese a thing or two!
MAGA!

Aren't you the same people that want $15 dollar an hour minimum wages? Isn't that making Americans pay more?

You've got me there...It's much better to pay more taxes...ooops, sorry, tariffs...to the government.

Holy shit. A left winger is upset people have to pay more to the government. Maybe we can just raise taxes on the Chinese and make them pay their fair share.

What would be the Chinese's "fair share"?

How about 10% more than the US charges our own companies in taxes?

How are you going to tax them, and why should they pay more even if you could?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I do remember those days. I also remember the democrats and the weak repubs giving out crap trade deals during that time.

We can win this trade war easily. If people like you can find the balls to fight it. It may hurt short time. Wars are like that. If you don't surrender though you can win and everything gets much better. Let Trump do what he needs to do to fix this and suck it up for a while. If not then we have your surrender letter in your post.

Under the current trade deals we have...

the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

record low sustained unemployment

more jobs than people to fill them

record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

Which of those things would you like the new trade deals to get rid of?

I'd like to see a more fair trade deal that actually opens up the Chinese market for a longer term gain. We aren't going to lose much short term to make major gains long term. Intellectual property, money manipulation, open markets that are closed to us. Those three alone change the entire dynamic which favors us.

And to be honest if we don't let Trump get this done we may never have another president with the balls to not surrender.

Trade deals should be mutually beneficial, not "fair" as fair only exist in the eye of the beholder.

Have we as a nation done well under the current trade deals?

No we haven't. When we allow imports of EU cars with no tariff and ours are hit with massive ones. Not my definition of fair or mutually beneficial. Doesn't fair in trade kind of mean mutually beneficial?

So, in your world none of these things are good things and you want them all to end...

- the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

- the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

- record low sustained unemployment

- more jobs than people to fill them

- record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

 

[Bush92]

We need to hit China hard on trade. They are allowed to dump products into the U.S. market place but they have such high tariffs on American made products, their market is close to U.S. companies. Bring jobs back to the USA.
Opinion | Why Trump Is Raising Tariffs on China

On the flip side we pay their workers poverty wages and long hours. There’s always some give and take. You can’t just assume China will bend to our every whim. That’s ridiculous.

I don’t want them to bend...I want them to break.

And this will never happen. China and the US
have an interdependent economic relationship whether you like it or not. Meaning, if one falls, so does the other.

We need nothing from China. USA will make out fine. We have people that will consume US manufactured goods. China buys nothing from United States. They just steal our design and trademark.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

We need to hit China hard on trade. They are allowed to dump products into the U.S. market place but they have such high tariffs on American made products, their market is close to U.S. companies. Bring jobs back to the USA.
Opinion | Why Trump Is Raising Tariffs on China

On the flip side we pay their workers poverty wages and long hours. There’s always some give and take. You can’t just assume China will bend to our every whim. That’s ridiculous.

I don’t want them to bend...I want them to break.

And this will never happen. China and the US
have an interdependent economic relationship whether you like it or not. Meaning, if one falls, so does the other.

We need nothing from China. USA will make out fine. We have people that will consume US manufactured goods. China buys nothing from United States. They just steal our design and trademark.

China buys nothing from United States? Really?

Then why did Trump give our farmers an extra 12 billion dollar last year to make up for last sales to China?

 

[Slyhunter]

About time we quit being a microwave society. Short term pain for long term gain. China has been acting like a bunch of cheats for ever, we have to stand up to them. We need to do it in a smart way though. We need to get our allies to punish them as well and not let china just replace us with our allies as trading partners. It use to be a conservative view to look in the long term instead of the short term. Now if we would impliment these views on national debt and taking care of infrastucture I would start to believe that real conservatism is coming back.

Under the current trade deals we have...

the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

record low sustained unemployment

more jobs than people to fill them

record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

Which of these things would you like to get rid of with the new trade deals?

The Chinese reneged on dozens of crucial items at the last moment. I know the Chinese flood the Left wing Universities, the Left wing Think tanks and several Left wing politicians with cash so you feel compelled to carry their water at every opportunity, but Trump is right here.

As Trump and the Chinese were finalizing the trade agreement, at the last minute China had deleted its commitments to change laws to resolve core complaints by the United States:

• theft of U.S. intellectual property and trade secrets;
• forced technology transfers; competition policy;
• access to financial services; and
• currency manipulation.

Trump's not going to put up with that though his response is measured. Last year we purchased $540B in goods from China. Trump didn't tariff all of it, but he did put 10% tariffs on $200B of it, and if the Chinese don't fulfill their previous pledges, those 10% tariffs are going to 25%, and not at a distant date, but THIS Friday.

The Chinese, at the last possible moment, stripped the binding legal language from the draft, removing their binding commitment to change Chinese laws essential to verifying compliance. They are used to US Administrations more interested in the signed deal, the smiles and handshakes for the cameras even if nothing is actually accomplished to further the interests of the US worker.

Trump's not going for that. They are either going to reassess their position or tariffs are going to 25% on less than half of what we purchase from them.

The administration said the latest tariff escalation would take effect at 12:01 a.m. Friday, hiking levees on Chinese products such as internet modems and routers, printed circuit boards, vacuum cleaners and furniture. So if you had your heart set on a Chinese vacuum cleaner, you might want to pick it up tomorrow.

China has backtracked on nearly all aspects of the US draft trade agreement

China gives the DNC money? We need to hire a special prosecutor to investigate this at once.

 

[skews13]

We need to hit China hard on trade. They are allowed to dump products into the U.S. market place but they have such high tariffs on American made products, their market is close to U.S. companies. Bring jobs back to the USA.
Opinion | Why Trump Is Raising Tariffs on China

Those US companies are the ones that moved those jobs to China.

And who do you think pays those tariffs?

Here’s a hint. It’s not China

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I do remember those days. I also remember the democrats and the weak repubs giving out crap trade deals during that time.

We can win this trade war easily. If people like you can find the balls to fight it. It may hurt short time. Wars are like that. If you don't surrender though you can win and everything gets much better. Let Trump do what he needs to do to fix this and suck it up for a while. If not then we have your surrender letter in your post.

Under the current trade deals we have...

the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

record low sustained unemployment

more jobs than people to fill them

record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

Which of those things would you like the new trade deals to get rid of?

I'd like to see a more fair trade deal that actually opens up the Chinese market for a longer term gain. We aren't going to lose much short term to make major gains long term. Intellectual property, money manipulation, open markets that are closed to us. Those three alone change the entire dynamic which favors us.

And to be honest if we don't let Trump get this done we may never have another president with the balls to not surrender.

Trade deals should be mutually beneficial, not "fair" as fair only exist in the eye of the beholder.

Have we as a nation done well under the current trade deals?

No we haven't. When we allow imports of EU cars with no tariff and ours are hit with massive ones. Not my definition of fair or mutually beneficial. Doesn't fair in trade kind of mean mutually beneficial?

So, in your world none of these things are good things and you want them all to end...

- the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

- the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

- record low sustained unemployment

- more jobs than people to fill them

- record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

How does fair trade hurt any of that?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Under the current trade deals we have...

the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

record low sustained unemployment

more jobs than people to fill them

record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

Which of those things would you like the new trade deals to get rid of?

I'd like to see a more fair trade deal that actually opens up the Chinese market for a longer term gain. We aren't going to lose much short term to make major gains long term. Intellectual property, money manipulation, open markets that are closed to us. Those three alone change the entire dynamic which favors us.

And to be honest if we don't let Trump get this done we may never have another president with the balls to not surrender.

Trade deals should be mutually beneficial, not "fair" as fair only exist in the eye of the beholder.

Have we as a nation done well under the current trade deals?

No we haven't. When we allow imports of EU cars with no tariff and ours are hit with massive ones. Not my definition of fair or mutually beneficial. Doesn't fair in trade kind of mean mutually beneficial?

So, in your world none of these things are good things and you want them all to end...

- the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

- the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

- record low sustained unemployment

- more jobs than people to fill them

- record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

How does fair trade hurt any of that?

Fair does not exist, remember? Mutually beneficial is the goal.

How is trade that led to all those things not benefiting our country?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I'd like to see a more fair trade deal that actually opens up the Chinese market for a longer term gain. We aren't going to lose much short term to make major gains long term. Intellectual property, money manipulation, open markets that are closed to us. Those three alone change the entire dynamic which favors us.

And to be honest if we don't let Trump get this done we may never have another president with the balls to not surrender.

Trade deals should be mutually beneficial, not "fair" as fair only exist in the eye of the beholder.

Have we as a nation done well under the current trade deals?

No we haven't. When we allow imports of EU cars with no tariff and ours are hit with massive ones. Not my definition of fair or mutually beneficial. Doesn't fair in trade kind of mean mutually beneficial?

So, in your world none of these things are good things and you want them all to end...

- the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

- the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

- record low sustained unemployment

- more jobs than people to fill them

- record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

How does fair trade hurt any of that?

Fair does not exist, remember? Mutually beneficial is the goal.

How is trade that led to all those things not benefiting our country?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Why can’t we benefit more than the status quo? Stoping China from stealing our intellectual property seems like a good idea. Opening ag and vehicle markets sounds good. Why not shoot for that instead of curling up afraid to shake anything up?

 

[Unkotare]

We need to hit China hard on trade. They are allowed to dump products into the U.S. market place but they have such high tariffs on American made products, their market is close to U.S. companies. Bring jobs back to the USA.
Opinion | Why Trump Is Raising Tariffs on China

On the flip side we pay their workers poverty wages and long hours. There’s always some give and take. You can’t just assume China will bend to our every whim. That’s ridiculous.

I don’t want them to bend...I want them to break.

And this will never happen. China and the US
have an interdependent economic relationship whether you like it or not. Meaning, if one falls, so does the other.

...China buys nothing from United States.....

Who told you that?

 

[Zorro!]

About time we quit being a microwave society. Short term pain for long term gain. China has been acting like a bunch of cheats for ever, we have to stand up to them. We need to do it in a smart way though. We need to get our allies to punish them as well and not let china just replace us with our allies as trading partners. It use to be a conservative view to look in the long term instead of the short term. Now if we would impliment these views on national debt and taking care of infrastucture I would start to believe that real conservatism is coming back.

Under the current trade deals we have...

the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.

the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of the country (will be the longest in 2 months)

record low sustained unemployment

more jobs than people to fill them

record setting financial markets till the trade war started.

Which of these things would you like to get rid of with the new trade deals?

The Chinese reneged on dozens of crucial items at the last moment. I know the Chinese flood the Left wing Universities, the Left wing Think tanks and several Left wing politicians with cash so you feel compelled to carry their water at every opportunity, but Trump is right here.

As Trump and the Chinese were finalizing the trade agreement, at the last minute China had deleted its commitments to change laws to resolve core complaints by the United States:

• theft of U.S. intellectual property and trade secrets;
• forced technology transfers; competition policy;
• access to financial services; and
• currency manipulation.

Trump's not going to put up with that though his response is measured. Last year we purchased $540B in goods from China. Trump didn't tariff all of it, but he did put 10% tariffs on $200B of it, and if the Chinese don't fulfill their previous pledges, those 10% tariffs are going to 25%, and not at a distant date, but THIS Friday.

The Chinese, at the last possible moment, stripped the binding legal language from the draft, removing their binding commitment to change Chinese laws essential to verifying compliance. They are used to US Administrations more interested in the signed deal, the smiles and handshakes for the cameras even if nothing is actually accomplished to further the interests of the US worker.

Trump's not going for that. They are either going to reassess their position or tariffs are going to 25% on less than half of what we purchase from them.

The administration said the latest tariff escalation would take effect at 12:01 a.m. Friday, hiking levees on Chinese products such as internet modems and routers, printed circuit boards, vacuum cleaners and furniture. So if you had your heart set on a Chinese vacuum cleaner, you might want to pick it up tomorrow.

China has backtracked on nearly all aspects of the US draft trade agreement

China gives the DNC money? We need to hire a special prosecutor to investigate this at once.

The United States Is Not Doing Enough to Fight Chinese Influence

China’s efforts to influence the United States. “Beijing has mobilized covert actors, front groups, and propaganda outlets to shift Americans’ perception of Chinese policy,” he noted. The remarks came on the heels of President Donald Trump’s speech at the United Nations General Assembly, where he called out Beijing for interfering in U.S. domestic politics.

The United States Is Not Doing Enough to Fight Chinese Influence

You think it's just happenstance that the Left and anti-Trumpers consistently take the Chinese line against the American Worker?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Main St. USA and the mom and pop businesses are going to take a pretty hard hit if the tariffs are imposed. Big business will simply pass the cost on to the consumer. Not to mention a few steel companies that depend on foreign imports to make their products.

No they are not! They already took a hit when millions of jobs in small town America were lost because of NAFTA and China trade. You obviously have never worked in manufacturing.

80% of manufacturing jobs were lost to automation and efficiency improvement. Very few actually left the country.

This is why manufacturing output kept going up and up even as manufacturing jobs were being lost.

Well manufacturing jobs are up nicely under Trump.

Under Obama manufacturing output was flat to dropping.

Under Trump, it's come up nicely:

now, lets look at it all together....

Sure. 2016 ended on a real down note and manufacturing output shot up nicely in 2017 and shot up even more in 2018.

Sure. 2016 ended on a real down note and manufacturing output shot up nicely in 2017 and shot up even more in 2018.

There was a downturn in from 15 to 16, it started back up in Q2 of 16 and is now leveled off since about halfway through 2018.

View attachment 260014

Not for nothing guys, but when you post charts like you have been, can you include the link to where you got them from so I can go and see the context of these tables? Thanks.

 

[Zorro!]

No they are not! They already took a hit when millions of jobs in small town America were lost because of NAFTA and China trade. You obviously have never worked in manufacturing.

80% of manufacturing jobs were lost to automation and efficiency improvement. Very few actually left the country.

This is why manufacturing output kept going up and up even as manufacturing jobs were being lost.

Well manufacturing jobs are up nicely under Trump.

Under Obama manufacturing output was flat to dropping.

Under Trump, it's come up nicely:

now, lets look at it all together....

Sure. 2016 ended on a real down note and manufacturing output shot up nicely in 2017 and shot up even more in 2018.

Sure. 2016 ended on a real down note and manufacturing output shot up nicely in 2017 and shot up even more in 2018.

There was a downturn in from 15 to 16, it started back up in Q2 of 16 and is now leveled off since about halfway through 2018.

Not for nothing guys, but when you post charts like you have been, can you include the link to where you got them from so I can go and see the context of these tables? Thanks.

The graph's labeled. FRED stands for Federal Reserve Economic Data and they pulled the info from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Year end numbers

https://fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[Dick Foster]

Everyone should bear in mind that the end goal is free and fair trade for all parties. That is no tarrif for any party and no rigging the system by either government. We've been playing a rigged system with China since they got in the game. Enough is enough. Remember they need the trade much much more than we do. I remember not so long ago when China was a complete non entity in world trade. Then a republican, Richard Nixon opened them up. They've been living on our dime ever since so enough already. Either play fair or don't play at all. We didn't need them then and we sure as hell don't need them now.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Don't forget Dick, Nixon was a Republican.

 

[Zorro!]

Everyone should bear in mind that the end goal is free and fair trade for all parties. That is no tarrif for any party and no rigging the system by either government. We've been playing a rigged system with China since they got in the game. Enough is enough. Remember they need the trade much much more than we do. I remember not so long ago when China was a complete non entity in world trade. Then a republican, Richard Nixon opened them up. They've been living on our dime ever since so enough already. Either play fair or don't play at all. We didn't need them then and we sure as hell don't need them now.

I was able to back to 1985 and the very first year I could find, we lost $6M on China Trade.

Foreign Trade - U.S. Trade with China

The next year? -$1,664.7M

And increasing nearly every year since, -$419,162.0M in 2018

Now, this year? We are running about $3.6B/mo LESS in trade deficit than previous year.

 

[Dick Foster]

Don't forget Dick, Nixon was a Republican.

I know full well he was. But he hasn't presided over the screwed up trade imbalance since. This just proves the democratic party's ability to screw up a wet dream. Nixon also got us out of Vietnam just like he said he would. This after largely democrats, especially LBJ made it the zoo and clusterfuck it became.

 

[Dick Foster]

Everyone should bear in mind that the end goal is free and fair trade for all parties. That is no tarrif for any party and no rigging the system by either government. We've been playing a rigged system with China since they got in the game. Enough is enough. Remember they need the trade much much more than we do. I remember not so long ago when China was a complete non entity in world trade. Then a republican, Richard Nixon opened them up. They've been living on our dime ever since so enough already. Either play fair or don't play at all. We didn't need them then and we sure as hell don't need them now.

I was able to back to 1985 and the very first year I could find, we lost $6M on China Trade.

Foreign Trade - U.S. Trade with China

The next year? -$1,664.7M

And increasing nearly every year since, -$419,162.0M in 2018

Now, this year? We are running about $3.6B LESS in trade deficit than previous year.

I think you may have dropped a few decimal places along the way as in billions not millions.

Remember thousands of millions are billions. This chart ends with 1980 and it has grown exponentially since so today it's now likely trillions per year.

 

[Zorro!]

Everyone should bear in mind that the end goal is free and fair trade for all parties. That is no tarrif for any party and no rigging the system by either government. We've been playing a rigged system with China since they got in the game. Enough is enough. Remember they need the trade much much more than we do. I remember not so long ago when China was a complete non entity in world trade. Then a republican, Richard Nixon opened them up. They've been living on our dime ever since so enough already. Either play fair or don't play at all. We didn't need them then and we sure as hell don't need them now.

I was able to back to 1985 and the very first year I could find, we lost $6M on China Trade.

Foreign Trade - U.S. Trade with China

The next year? -$1,664.7M

And increasing nearly every year since, -$419,162.0M in 2018

Now, this year? We are running about $3.6B LESS in trade deficit than previous year.

I think you may have dropped a few decimal places along the way as in billions not millions.

Remember thousands of millions are billions. This chart ends with 1980 and it has grown exponentially since so today it's now likely trillions per year.

Figures from 1985 to the present are below.

Foreign Trade - U.S. Trade with China

2018 -$419,162.0M
2017 -$375,576.4M
2016 -$346,996.5M

Now in 2019 it looks like Trump has some early signs of progress:

Q1 2018 - $-91,088.9M
Q1 2019 - $-79,979.5M