Chicago teacher's union wants a 30% pay raise

[DontBeStupid]

The city's mayor, Rahm Emanuel is behind this push for longer school hours. You assume that the poor achievement is about food and or parenting. Sure we can blame part of it on such, just as any school district. However their failure rate is about 50 percent and it all can't be blamed on parents.

How do you know? You 're just guessing. Where's the evidence?

Somewhere along the way their school mentors have responsibility too. Having the shortest school days of the country is obviously not helping.

There are plenty of failing school districts with long days.

I'm not guessing, I am reading Mayor Rahm Emanuel from the NPR article I linked to earlier. He states that the day is so short they have to pick and choose if they get to learn math, science or have lunch!



Chicago Wants Longer School Day; Foes Want Details : NPR

Again, though, you're mixing terms. No one is denying the students should have longer hours to have more time to focus on subject matter. But to ask the teachers to work 36% longer days for NO pay increase, is ridiculous.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Those fucking lazy ass teachers, only working 12 hour days! LEACHES!


So basically the idiots want them to work 14 hour days for no extra pay.

The "idiot" is Mayor Rahm Emanuel former White House Chief of Staff and current Mayor of Chicago.

And?

The students are failing at a rate of near 50 percent.

Well they'd better study harder then, don't you think?

LOL it has nothing to do with a short school day, the shortest in the nation ( by 2 hours) and the teachers, at all? Please. GMAB

 

[DontBeStupid]

Is there an example somewhere in the world of an education system that we should emulate?

Finland.

Education in Finland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are teachers well paid and respected in Finland?

Extremely well respected and well paid. From Wikipedia:

Both primary and secondary teachers must have a Master's degree to qualify. Teaching is a respected profession and entrance to university programs is highly competitive. A prospective teacher must have very good grades and must combat fierce opposition in order to become a teacher. About only 10% of applicants to certain programs are successful (Highly educated teachers the key to success - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)). The respect accorded the profession and the higher salaries than the OECD average lead to higher performing and larger numbers applying for the positions, and this is reflected in the quality of teachers in Finland.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I don't think I'm the moron, unless you consider my tax money paying teachers for full time work in the first place, while they put in part time work for a part of the year, as a cool scam? I respect the Individual that understands worth and fair measure. Clearly you don't.

They aren't being "paid for full time work in the first place", shit for brains, they're being paid for 27.5 hours a week "in the first place"

What I see is bad math, and as the bad math becomes more clear and evident, I see those with the power, running for the life boats, with no regard for who they trample over. I'm one of those brick walls you run into. Now.... Fuck Off.

Here's some math for you - MORE WORK = MORE PAY
Got it dumbass?

I think you are in the wrong line of work. You are not a People Person. You are about you. Here is a thought ..... Better Work, better Pay. Be thankful for what you have. Quality beats quantity, every time. You have neither. Learn to care about what you do and you will start to succeed. Move ot of Chicago and find honest work. ..... Oh Yeah.... Fuck Off. What a Jack Ass. I can only imagine how the kids react to you.

Wow those are some nice slogans. Why don't you go to Chicago and try them out?

"Be thankful for what you have" ?

Why is it that the right wing expects teachers to be grovelling slaves?

 

[freedombecki]

Cut government spending, turn education over to parents to seek private educations for their young. That will solve a lot of problems:

teacher strikes
lawsuits against states
lawsuits against the federal government
suing public schools over dress codes
suing public schools over school prayer
suing public schools over failure to supervise disruptive students who should be in a medical facility for mental health care treatment
suing public schools over teacher, custodian, or principal statuatory rape
suing public schools over sex education
suing public schools over keeping student abortion secret from parents
suing public schools over child endangerment
suing public schools over discrimination
suing public schools over reverse discrimination
suing public schools over low SAT Scores
suing public schools over school dances
suing public schools over food poisoning in cafeteria
suing public schools over failure to provide exotic foods for foreign child
suing public schools over unsupervised restrooms
suing public schools over other people's children
suing public schools over playground bullies
suing public schools over boring presentations
suing public schools for being too strict
suing public schools for being too lenient
suing public schools for air conditioning
suing public schools for uncomfortable chairs
suing public schools over computer shortages
suing public schools for using computers
suing public schools for teacher eccentricity
suing public schools for bells that are too loud
suing public schools when bell system fails
suing public schools for not having clocks in all its rooms
suing public schools for detaining child who says he didn't do it
suing public schools for teacher with mental illness
suing public schools for child's low grades
suing public schools for backed up sewer in showers
suing public schools for bus accidents
suing public schools for unpleasant bus driver
suing public schools for insensitivity
suing public schools for politicizing a child
suing public schools for favoritism to football team members
suing public schools for football team member who dies when tackled
suing public schools for broken arm on slick basketball floor
suing public schools for unsafe gym equipment
suing public schools for pushing sports
suing public schools for non-participation in sport events with other schools
suing public schools for assigning too much homework
suing public schools for not having nurse present to help ill child
suing public schools for failure to check criminal records of employee
suing public schools for not synchronizing teaching hours with business working hours
and a million other things.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The "idiot" is Mayor Rahm Emanuel former White House Chief of Staff and current Mayor of Chicago.

And?

The students are failing at a rate of near 50 percent.

Well they'd better study harder then, don't you think?

LOL it has nothing to do with a short school day, the shortest in the nation ( by 2 hours) and the teachers, at all? Please. GMAB

When I was in school if I didn't do well it was my fault. If I told my parents it was the teachers fault they would tell me I should stop blaming other people for my failures.


Did something change?

 

[DontBeStupid]

I already have, for several years....next.


what are you that simple that you don't know many companies, yes, fortune 500 co's have not provided wage increases 401 k matches or laid off workers shrinking the dept or grp. size and expecting the same work get done? get real.

They were given such a low threshold and treated like kings and queens over the years, the state is broke and all of that hiring ahead of inflation and pop. growth has caught up with them, so, what? the sky will fall?

.....they can suck it up like I and many many private sector did and are.... ...oh and in the end, 3 years later I still got laid off but- that's life.....they need to grow up.

You busted your ass for a company that just ended up firing you?

That was stupid.

well now, that comment tells me a lot about you.....to bad.

no, its called being an adult and doing what you have to do. There was and is no guarantee of work anywhere for anyone except your union anointed apparently.....how old are you? 18?

Well, now you just sound jealous of unions. I've busted my ass for companies before and told them to pay more as well. They did. Win / Win.

Why shouldn't teachers get that?

 

[Zander]

Is there an example somewhere in the world of an education system that we should emulate?

Catholic schools right here in the USA.

So you think the public schools should get to pick and choose the students they like, and completely eliminate their current mission - to educate all - and change it to educating only those that the schools feel like educating.

BRILLIANT plan.

That is not what they do, but nice try at diversion and hyperbole.

Public schools should be subject to competition. Why do catholic school students outscore public schools students in standardized tests? Why do kids from poor neighborhoods that attend Catholic schools, outscore public school students from the same area??

There is value in competition. Teachers Unions fight competition with tooth and claw. They have a gravy train that rewards incompetence, laziness, and seniority. Only a moron continues to do the same things while expecting different results....yet that is exactly what we have done with public education in America for the last 50 years. Public education needs COMPETITION.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Catholic schools right here in the USA.

So you think the public schools should get to pick and choose the students they like, and completely eliminate their current mission - to educate all - and change it to educating only those that the schools feel like educating.

BRILLIANT plan.

That is not what they do, but nice try at diversion and hyperbole.

Public schools should be subject to competition. Why do catholic school students outscore public schools students in standardized tests? Why do kids from poor neighborhoods that attend Catholic schools, outscore public school students from the same area??

There is value in competition. Teachers Unions fight competition with tooth and claw. They have a gravy train that rewards incompetence, laziness, and seniority. Only a moron continues to do the same things while expecting different results....yet that is exactly what we have done with public education in America for the last 50 years. Public education needs COMPETITION.

Parents.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You busted your ass for a company that just ended up firing you?

That was stupid.

well now, that comment tells me a lot about you.....to bad.

no, its called being an adult and doing what you have to do. There was and is no guarantee of work anywhere for anyone except your union anointed apparently.....how old are you? 18?

Well, now you just sound jealous of unions. I've busted my ass for companies before and told them to pay more as well. They did. Win / Win.

Why shouldn't teachers get that?

The right wing simply does not value them at all. They don't want to blame the students or the parents - in fact, much like the lazy student who doesn't want to work - they blame the teacher for everything.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Public education needs COMPETITION.

And how do you propose bringing in more competition when you are demanding the profession to take pay cuts and benefit cuts? How will LESS pay for MORE work bring in more competition? Where has that ever worked?

 

[CaféAuLait]

How do you know? You 're just guessing. Where's the evidence?



There are plenty of failing school districts with long days.

I'm not guessing, I am reading Mayor Rahm Emanuel from the NPR article I linked to earlier. He states that the day is so short they have to pick and choose if they get to learn math, science or have lunch!



Chicago Wants Longer School Day; Foes Want Details : NPR

Again, though, you're mixing terms. No one is denying the students should have longer hours to have more time to focus on subject matter. But to ask the teachers to work 36% longer days for NO pay increase, is ridiculous.

No, I was addressing his question. But since you asked, why are Chicago teachers seemingly special and need to be paid more than the average teacher working more hours than they are?

Wait, wait I got it. Because a union DEMANDED that the tax payers pay the teachers the same as the rest of the country's teachers, while working on average 10 hours less per week.

Illinois has one of the highest rates in the country for pay but work far less:


Teacher Salaries By State | Average Salaries For Teachers | Beginning Salaries For Teachers | Teacher Raises | TeacherPortal.com

 

[DontBeStupid]

I'm not guessing, I am reading Mayor Rahm Emanuel from the NPR article I linked to earlier. He states that the day is so short they have to pick and choose if they get to learn math, science or have lunch!



Chicago Wants Longer School Day; Foes Want Details : NPR

Again, though, you're mixing terms. No one is denying the students should have longer hours to have more time to focus on subject matter. But to ask the teachers to work 36% longer days for NO pay increase, is ridiculous.

No, I was addressing his question. But since you asked, why are Chicago teachers seemingly special and need to be paid more than the average teacher working more hours than they are?

Wait, wait I got it. Because a union DEMANDED that the tax payers pay the teachers the same as the rest of the country's teachers, while working on average 10 hours less per week.

Illinois has one of the highest rates in the country for pay but work far less:


Teacher Salaries By State | Average Salaries For Teachers | Beginning Salaries For Teachers | Teacher Raises | TeacherPortal.com

Correct. And the officials who were elected by the tax payers AGREED to it!

But, sure, blame the teachers for wanting a better life for themselves and their families. That's good values right there.

 

[Zander]

So you think the public schools should get to pick and choose the students they like, and completely eliminate their current mission - to educate all - and change it to educating only those that the schools feel like educating.

BRILLIANT plan.

That is not what they do, but nice try at diversion and hyperbole.

Public schools should be subject to competition. Why do catholic school students outscore public schools students in standardized tests? Why do kids from poor neighborhoods that attend Catholic schools, outscore public school students from the same area??

There is value in competition. Teachers Unions fight competition with tooth and claw. They have a gravy train that rewards incompetence, laziness, and seniority. Only a moron continues to do the same things while expecting different results....yet that is exactly what we have done with public education in America for the last 50 years. Public education needs COMPETITION.

Parents.

I agree that Parents are part of the problem. But the larger part is the dysfunctional system that protects incompetent teachers. Why be a great teacher when being a lousy one pays exactly the same and you can't be fired? Fuck the kids, just mail it in!! It's a helluva a lot easier, and thanks to the "Union" rules, there ain't shit you can do about it.

 

[Zander]

Public education needs COMPETITION.

And how do you propose bringing in more competition when you are demanding the profession to take pay cuts and benefit cuts? How will LESS pay for MORE work bring in more competition? Where has that ever worked?

Vouchers.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Catholic schools right here in the USA.

So you think the public schools should get to pick and choose the students they like, and completely eliminate their current mission - to educate all - and change it to educating only those that the schools feel like educating.

BRILLIANT plan.

That is not what they do, but nice try at diversion and hyperbole.

Oh really? Catholic schools don't get to choose who to admit? Gee whiz, that's news to me, when did that policy change?

When did the Catholic Church start to teach that gays go to heaven and that women can be priests? I missed that one, too!

Public schools should be subject to competition. Why do catholic school students outscore public schools students in standardized tests?

Because all the students that might cause a disturbance in class were never admitted in the first place or were expelled, freeing the teacher and the remaining students to teach and learn. Also because the parents obviously are more involved in their children's education - this is evident by the very fact they pay to send their kid to private school

Any other questions?

Why do kids from poor neighborhoods that attend Catholic schools, outscore public school students from the same area??

same exact answer.

Especially for poorer students, where the tuition is more of an economic hardship - if their parents are scraping together the money to send the kids to private school even though it aint easy to do it, that's a very good indication the parents are very involved in their kids education.

There is value in competition. Teachers Unions fight competition with tooth and claw. They have a gravy train that rewards incompetence, laziness, and seniority. Only a moron continues to do the same things while expecting different results....yet that is exactly what we have done with public education in America for the last 50 years. Public education needs COMPETITION.

The competition isn't on equal footing. Are catholic schools required to accommodate all disabilities - mental and physical - at no extra cost to the student? No. Can Catholic schools simply rid themselves of students who are behavioural problems? Yes. (At the Catholic School I went to, 90% of the time, any student involved in a physical fight was expelled. There were very few fights). How you could consider the two to be on equal competitive footing is amazing to me.

EDIT: I'm not in anyway dogging on Catholic education and in fact the public schools might have a bit to learn from them, but the idea that an apples to apples comparison can be made between them is ridiculous.

 

[tjvh]

And?


Well they'd better study harder then, don't you think?

LOL it has nothing to do with a short school day, the shortest in the nation ( by 2 hours) and the teachers, at all? Please. GMAB

When I was in school if I didn't do well it was my fault. If I told my parents it was the teachers fault they would tell me I should stop blaming other people for my failures.


Did something change?

Yup... Nobody takes responsibility for their own actions anymore.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Public education needs COMPETITION.

And how do you propose bringing in more competition when you are demanding the profession to take pay cuts and benefit cuts? How will LESS pay for MORE work bring in more competition? Where has that ever worked?

Vouchers.

Won't work.

Taking money from a school will give them less to spend on the best teachers which will make the school fail more.

The voucher system is similar to doctors using leeches in the 1800s.

 

[CaféAuLait]

And?


Well they'd better study harder then, don't you think?

LOL it has nothing to do with a short school day, the shortest in the nation ( by 2 hours) and the teachers, at all? Please. GMAB

When I was in school if I didn't do well it was my fault. If I told my parents it was the teachers fault they would tell me I should stop blaming other people for my failures.


Did something change?

Not everyone has your parents and some hold a teacher's performance as a reasonable measure of how 50 percent of a student population performs. Again as I said before, parents are to be held accountable as well. However, a near 50 percent failure rate and having to choose a subject to teach since the day is so short is inexcusable and an obvious reason for failure.

 

[Trajan]

You busted your ass for a company that just ended up firing you?

That was stupid.

well now, that comment tells me a lot about you.....to bad.

no, its called being an adult and doing what you have to do. There was and is no guarantee of work anywhere for anyone except your union anointed apparently.....how old are you? 18?

Well, now you just sound jealous of unions. I've busted my ass for companies before and told them to pay more as well. They did. Win / Win.

Why shouldn't teachers get that?

I am IN a UC union,now, a public sector cali union, hello.

becasue they were under worked or overpaid to start with and, again, there is NO money......for god sakes. we are borrowing 40 cents pf every $ we spend now, what the Fed gov,. should float salaries for public sector unions? No one ponied up when I got canned and they should not be expected too.