Chicago teacher's union wants a 30% pay raise

[Intense]

I don't live in or pay taxes in Illinois. So why should I care?

I'll just say its funny how the right whines about non-existent double digit inflation and then doesn't think it right to raise people's pay along with it.

Where do you think teachers get their money from? if they raised the teachers pay that would mean someone would have to come up with the short fall. And where do you suggest that would come from?

That's clearly a question that should be settled before you expect them to work 2 more hours a day, don't you think?

Hey you! I need you to work 37% more. I'm not going to pay you more because I have no idea where to get the money. That's just not gonna fly in the long run.

The private school teachers can't be happy with this, because it means the best qualified public school teachers will now be flooding the market for private school teachers, so they'll have more competition.

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Where do you think teachers get their money from? if they raised the teachers pay that would mean someone would have to come up with the short fall. And where do you suggest that would come from?

That's clearly a question that should be settled before you expect them to work 2 more hours a day, don't you think?

Hey you! I need you to work 37% more. I'm not going to pay you more because I have no idea where to get the money. That's just not gonna fly in the long run.

The private school teachers can't be happy with this, because it means the best qualified public school teachers will now be flooding the market for private school teachers, so they'll have more competition.

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

 

[CaféAuLait]

You need to read up on this topic if you think the hours you posted are correct in any way.

I got the hours from reading the OP link.

But here are more sources:

NPR:

Most kids in Chicago's public schools spend just five hours and 45 minutes in school a day. It's one of the shortest school days in the country.

Chicago Wants Longer School Day; Foes Want Details : NPR

I don't think anyone is arguing the importance of extending the day to give kids more classroom time. But you seem to think that's the ONLY time a teacher is working, and that is amazingly wrong.

No, I do not think that. My major concern was how little time the student was actually in class learning. I am aware that teachers, as well as non-teachers work additional hours.

However these teachers are demanding more money for what is a standard time across the states - while their fail rate is about 50 percent. It's obvious that 3-4 hours a day in a classroom learning (minus lunch/recess) is leaving a deficit in the children’s education. A major one at that.

 

[Avorysuds]

So I guess if Chicago wants better teachers they can pay teachers more. If they want shittier teachers they can lower their pay.

It would be that simple to you.

Its called getting what you pay for.



Yeah maybe we can get Donald Trump to run the deal and we can broadcast it as a reality TV show on national TV. Jeez.

Let the market determine salaries, just like every other industry.

The market isn't concerned with ensuring your children have an education its concerned with profit.

"Public educators, like Soviet farmers, lack any incentive to produce results, innovate, to be efficient, to make the kinds of of difficult changes that private firms operating in a competitive market must make to survive." Carolyn Lochhead

According to one economic theory, yes. The one that assumes everyone is 100% solely motivated by a 100% rational desire for profit. It ignores the real world.

Here is a perfect example of someone who got their way, in fact JUST what they wanted. Teachers make a boat load according the numbers in this thread especially when you consider how many hours they work and months off in a year.

You claim teachers need to be paid more and as provided they are already well above average and if this goes through they would be around double the average pay. So the question is, why are they failing so miserably at their job? You claim it’s because they need more money, we claim it’s because lack of competition usually done through bad regulation.

Once again, we have literally done it your way for who knows how many years, when do we try something else? Serious question btw.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Anybody wanna defend this?
.
.
" It takes a lot of nerve to ask for a 30 percent pay raise. You’d better be sure you had a banner year. Yet in Chicago, where just 15 percent of fourth graders are proficient in reading (and just 56 percent of students graduate), the teachers union is set to strike if the district does not agree to a 30 percent increase in teachers’ salaries.

The average teacher in Chicago Public Schools—a district facing a $700 million deficit—makes $71,000 per year before benefits are included. If the district meets union demands and rewards teachers with the requested salary increase, education employees will receive compensation north of $92,000 per year.

According to the Illinois Policy Institute, the average annual income of a family in Chicago is $47,000 per year. If implemented, the 30 percent raise will mean that in nine months, a single teacher in the Chicago Public School system will take home nearly double what the average family in the city earns in a year.

According to the union, 91 percent of its members voted for the ability to strike. That vote gives the union the ability to walk out of public school classrooms as children return to school this fall.

The union argues that Mayor Rahm Emanuel (D) wants to extend the school day, and that the requested salary increase would compensate them for extending the school day from 5.5 hours—among the nation’s shortest school days—to 7.5 hours. Chicago Public Schools states that under the extended school day:

On average teachers will provide 5.5 hours of instruction (an increase of 54 minutes), receive a 45-minute duty-free lunch and 60-minute prep period and supervise the passing period. They will also be required to be on-site for 10 minutes before and after school.
While the union bemoans the longer school day and is demanding a hefty pay raise as a result, taxpayers will be left holding the bill for a 30 percent salary increase and wondering whether $92,000 is appropriate compensation for public school employees. "


Chicago Teachers Union Demands 30 Percent Pay Raise
-------

I don't live in or pay taxes in Illinois. So why should I care?

I'll just say its funny how the right whines about non-existent double digit inflation and then doesn't think it right to raise people's pay along with it.

You may not live there, but if these idiots get away with a 30% raise then all teachers around the country will think, "they did it" why can't we get a 30% raise.... lunacy breeds lunacy.

.

 

[Avorysuds]

That's clearly a question that should be settled before you expect them to work 2 more hours a day, don't you think?

Hey you! I need you to work 37% more. I'm not going to pay you more because I have no idea where to get the money. That's just not gonna fly in the long run.

The private school teachers can't be happy with this, because it means the best qualified public school teachers will now be flooding the market for private school teachers, so they'll have more competition.

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

Anyone that knows anyone that works knows they bring work home with them.

 

[CaféAuLait]

That's clearly a question that should be settled before you expect them to work 2 more hours a day, don't you think?

Hey you! I need you to work 37% more. I'm not going to pay you more because I have no idea where to get the money. That's just not gonna fly in the long run.

The private school teachers can't be happy with this, because it means the best qualified public school teachers will now be flooding the market for private school teachers, so they'll have more competition.

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

They are not accomplishing 'their job' given the failure rate of the students now. 5.5 hours ( subtract lunch and recess and it's actually shorter than that!) in school is totally ridiculous. I always hear how poor our students are doing, but let’s shorten the days till they are in school 2 hours less, or more than the rest of the country.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Are there any people here who consider themselves to be very successful?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Are there any people here who consider themselves to be very successful?

me

 

[CaféAuLait]

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

Anyone that knows anyone that works knows they bring work home with them.

Many people of many professions bring their work home with them.

 

[chanel]

They were not paid their 4 percent increase last year. The 29 percent is for the next 2 years. That comes to 10 percent over three years.

It is still unreasonable but heritage.org is misleading with that 30 percent figure

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That's clearly a question that should be settled before you expect them to work 2 more hours a day, don't you think?

Hey you! I need you to work 37% more. I'm not going to pay you more because I have no idea where to get the money. That's just not gonna fly in the long run.

The private school teachers can't be happy with this, because it means the best qualified public school teachers will now be flooding the market for private school teachers, so they'll have more competition.

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

Are you Jrunk?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

They are not accomplishing 'their job' given the failure rate of the students now.

Its not their job ensure the children come to school well fed and in good physical and mental health, ready to learn. That's the parents job and the teachers can't do that. I've no doubt you probably think private school teachers are better than public simply because the students do better. You probably come from decent family circumstances and have no clue what less fortunate students have to deal with.

5.5 hours ( subtract lunch and recess) in school is totally ridiculous

Why do you think extra instruction time necessarily leads to greater student achievement? Doesn't instruction time have to be balanced with individual work time, and if you add 2 more hours of instruction, don't you necessarily remove two hours the student would have had to work on their own? Why not 8.5 hours? Why not 12.5? Is 7.5 the ideal amount just because that's what YOU had as a child, or is there some scientific reason it is the right amount?

 

[Borillar]

Devil's advocate hat on: how is it in America today that the focus on being overpaid (?) is directed only at working Americans? How about congress? They've done nothing for at least two years now? Why not criticize them? How about the wealthy who only paid 15% tax, while those teachers pay at least 30%? How about wall street and the bailout losers who almost crashed the economy, but managed golden parachutes and exorbitant pay? The right wing - conservative - republican - libertarian and other assorted whiners, wear blinders that only focus on working people who actually work. Time you paid attention to everyone and stopped screwing your fellow Americans with your myopic vision of the world of work and pay.

"Though it is often claimed that the left stands for equality while the right stand for freedom, the notion misstates the actual disagreement between right and left. Historically, the conservative has favored liberty for the higher orders and constraint for the lower orders. What the conservatives sees and dislikes in equality, in other words, is not a threat to freedom but its extension." Corey Robin

Conservatives think a businessman pulling in 250K is barely getting by, but a teacher, fireman, or policeman making 50 - 60K is an overpaid leech.

I initially was thinking that, damn 30% increase is pretty hefty raise in pay. But the increase work time is > 30%. Teachers put in a lot of time outside of class too, preparing and grading. I would say most teachers put in a lot more than 40 hrs/week.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

so if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


Edit: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

anyone that knows anyone that works knows they bring work home with them.

many people of many professions bring their work home with them.

? And ?

 

[CaféAuLait]

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

They are not accomplishing 'their job' given the failure rate of the students now.

Its not their job ensure the children come to school well fed and in good physical and mental health, ready to learn. That's the parents job and the teachers can't do that.

5.5 hours ( subtract lunch and recess) in school is totally ridiculous

Why do you think extra instruction time necessarily leads to greater student achievement? Doesn't instruction time have to be balanced with individual work time, and if you add 2 more hours of instruction, don't you necessarily remove two hours the student would have had to work on their own? Why not 8.5 hours? Why not 12.5? Is 7.5 the ideal amount just because that's what YOU had as a child, or is there some scientific reason it is the right amount?

The city's mayor, Rahm Emanuel is behind this push for longer school hours. You assume that the poor achievement is about food and or parenting. Sure we can blame part of it on such, just as any school district. However their failure rate is about 50 percent and it all can't be blamed on parents. Somewhere along the way their school mentors have responsibility too. Having the shortest school days of the country is obviously not helping.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Are there any people here who consider themselves to be very successful?

me

Excellent. Please name the profession of the 5 people ( excluding family ) who you feel have most influenced you on your road to success.

Thanks.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Are there any people here who consider themselves to be very successful?

me

Excellent. Please name the profession of the 5 people ( excluding family ) who you feel have most influenced you on your road to success.

Thanks.

public school teacher
public school coach
private school teacher
professor of physics
professor of physics

 

[Intense]

That's clearly a question that should be settled before you expect them to work 2 more hours a day, don't you think?

Hey you! I need you to work 37% more. I'm not going to pay you more because I have no idea where to get the money. That's just not gonna fly in the long run.

The private school teachers can't be happy with this, because it means the best qualified public school teachers will now be flooding the market for private school teachers, so they'll have more competition.

No. 40 hour work week seems fair. I guess it's a charmed life with all the time off including the paid breaks. In the real world, the story is very different, huh.

So if someone has a job working 27 hours a week, their boss should expect them to start working 40 hour weeks for no extra pay?

Yeah that's good economic sense. You fucking moron. Try that one out in real life, see what happens.


EDIT: Not to mention anyone who has ever known a school teacher knows they bring plenty of work home with them.

I don't think I'm the moron, unless you consider my tax money paying teachers for full time work in the first place, while they put in part time work for a part of the year, as a cool scam? I respect the Individual that understands worth and fair measure. Clearly you don't. What I see is bad math, and as the bad math becomes more clear and evident, I see those with the power, running for the life boats, with no regard for who they trample over. I'm one of those brick walls you run into. Now.... Fuck Off.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

They are not accomplishing 'their job' given the failure rate of the students now.

Its not their job ensure the children come to school well fed and in good physical and mental health, ready to learn. That's the parents job and the teachers can't do that.

5.5 hours ( subtract lunch and recess) in school is totally ridiculous

Why do you think extra instruction time necessarily leads to greater student achievement? Doesn't instruction time have to be balanced with individual work time, and if you add 2 more hours of instruction, don't you necessarily remove two hours the student would have had to work on their own? Why not 8.5 hours? Why not 12.5? Is 7.5 the ideal amount just because that's what YOU had as a child, or is there some scientific reason it is the right amount?

The city's mayor, Rahm Emanuel is behind this push for longer school hours. You assume that the poor achievement is about food and or parenting. Sure we can blame part of it on such, just as any school district. However their failure rate is about 50 percent and it all can't be blamed on parents.

How do you know? You 're just guessing. Where's the evidence?

Somewhere along the way their school mentors have responsibility too. Having the shortest school days of the country is obviously not helping.

There are plenty of failing school districts with long days.