Chicago Teachers Strike Over Accountability

[squeeze berry]

Well, Chicago schools are in session (supposed to be anyway) from September 8 until June 18. That's pretty much nine months


Point? So what? You don't think everyone else pays for health insurance?



Point? So what? You don't think every industry has people burn out their first time out? Happens all the time. As though "paperwork and political crap" are unique to the education industry.



Aww...because teaching is the only industry in which continuing education is required to keep a license? Six whole hours every 5 years...must be tough! Good God man, get over yourself.



Gosh, if the Chicago teachers only made decent money, they could afford $1800 every five years. Must suck living on $70k+ a year with guaranteed benefits and retirements and nearly 3 months off every year. But then there's the pressure of getting fired if you don't perform...

So I ask again, what are these teachers bitching about?

Where I am: School dismisses for summer June 3--Starts back Aug 7
A summer of 2 months and 4 days. Where is that extra month for summer?

Gosh, only 9 weeks of vacation. Must suck...
You should move to Chicago. They get three months...well deserved to be sure...



Clearly you have NO FRICKIN' IDEA what regular workers in private industry get in the form of benefits.

From the link:

Link: Chicago Teachers Union strike unjust | Washington Times Communities



Why is that? Where is it stated that a teacher cannot advance? Sounds like a union mentality there. What exactly would stop you from getting into administration, management, etc?



Chicago has a 25% drop out rate (50% for Blacks and Latinos) while the kids that do remain in class can't read or do basic math...and you want a bonus?! Good God man!



You mean you have to actually work while being paid? The horror...

Credit hours: Most professions are offered free seminars by sponsoring companies.

Bullshit. Some, yes, "most", no fucking way. I've paid for every CE class I've ever had to take.

Accountability

Until you or any teacher could actually face termination for poor performance, nobody really gives a crap about your perceived "accountability"

Bottom line, you should be competing for your job just like everyone else. That doesn't happen when government monopolizes the market for affordable education.

teachers are fired all the time for poor performance you stupid fuck

 

[eflatminor]

Where I am: School dismisses for summer June 3--Starts back Aug 7
A summer of 2 months and 4 days. Where is that extra month for summer?

Gosh, only 9 weeks of vacation. Must suck...
You should move to Chicago. They get three months...well deserved to be sure...



Clearly you have NO FRICKIN' IDEA what regular workers in private industry get in the form of benefits.

From the link:

Link: Chicago Teachers Union strike unjust | Washington Times Communities



Why is that? Where is it stated that a teacher cannot advance? Sounds like a union mentality there. What exactly would stop you from getting into administration, management, etc?



Chicago has a 25% drop out rate (50% for Blacks and Latinos) while the kids that do remain in class can't read or do basic math...and you want a bonus?! Good God man!



You mean you have to actually work while being paid? The horror...



Bullshit. Some, yes, "most", no fucking way. I've paid for every CE class I've ever had to take.

Accountability

Until you or any teacher could actually face termination for poor performance, nobody really gives a crap about your perceived "accountability"

Bottom line, you should be competing for your job just like everyone else. That doesn't happen when government monopolizes the market for affordable education.

teachers are fired all the time for poor performance you stupid fuck

Ohh...another internet tough guy...

All the time, eh?

"Joel Klein is chancellor of New York City's public school system, a monopoly so heavily regulated that sometimes it's unable to fire even dangerous teachers. The series of steps a principal must take to dismiss an instructor is Byzantine. "It's almost impossible," Klein complains."

Link: How to Fire an Incompetent Teacher - Reason.com

But hey, I'm sure the chancellor of New York's public school system is a...what was it..."stupid fuck" and you're the genius.

 

[Annie]

Before gaining tenure, many teachers are weeded out. The real problem is tenured teachers that made it to that point and shouldn't have. There are also folks that just stop caring, for whatever reason, but if tenured?

So, what happens to those that are deemed, not fit for teaching?

City to close 'rubber rooms,' $30M detention halls for teachers accused of major violations - New York Daily News

 

[squeeze berry]

Gosh, only 9 weeks of vacation. Must suck...
You should move to Chicago. They get three months...well deserved to be sure...



Clearly you have NO FRICKIN' IDEA what regular workers in private industry get in the form of benefits.

From the link:

Link: Chicago Teachers Union strike unjust | Washington Times Communities



Why is that? Where is it stated that a teacher cannot advance? Sounds like a union mentality there. What exactly would stop you from getting into administration, management, etc?



Chicago has a 25% drop out rate (50% for Blacks and Latinos) while the kids that do remain in class can't read or do basic math...and you want a bonus?! Good God man!



You mean you have to actually work while being paid? The horror...



Bullshit. Some, yes, "most", no fucking way. I've paid for every CE class I've ever had to take.


Until you or any teacher could actually face termination for poor performance, nobody really gives a crap about your perceived "accountability"

Bottom line, you should be competing for your job just like everyone else. That doesn't happen when government monopolizes the market for affordable education.

teachers are fired all the time for poor performance you stupid fuck

Ohh...another internet tough guy...

All the time, eh?

"Joel Klein is chancellor of New York City's public school system, a monopoly so heavily regulated that sometimes it's unable to fire even dangerous teachers. The series of steps a principal must take to dismiss an instructor is Byzantine. "It's almost impossible," Klein complains."

Link: How to Fire an Incompetent Teacher - Reason.com

But hey, I'm sure the chancellor of New York's public school system is a...what was it..."stupid fuck" and you're the genius.

that's someone's opinion and it's not the entire country asshole

 

[squeeze berry]

Before gaining tenure, many teachers are weeded out. The real problem is tenured teachers that made it to that point and shouldn't have. There are also folks that just stop caring, for whatever reason, but if tenured?

So, what happens to those that are deemed, not fit for teaching?

City to close 'rubber rooms,' $30M detention halls for teachers accused of major violations - New York Daily News

they got rid of the rubber room years ago and once again it's NY city schools

 

[Rozman]

This worthless animal couldn't pass an 8th-grade reading or math test, let alone pass a teacher's test.

Is she sayin "talk to the hand Beeee Aaatch"

 

[eflatminor]

teachers are fired all the time for poor performance you stupid fuck

Ohh...another internet tough guy...

All the time, eh?

"Joel Klein is chancellor of New York City's public school system, a monopoly so heavily regulated that sometimes it's unable to fire even dangerous teachers. The series of steps a principal must take to dismiss an instructor is Byzantine. "It's almost impossible," Klein complains."

Link: How to Fire an Incompetent Teacher - Reason.com

But hey, I'm sure the chancellor of New York's public school system is a...what was it..."stupid fuck" and you're the genius.

that's someone's opinion and it's not the entire country asshole

Just "Someone's" opinion, eh? He's only the Chancellor of NY's public school system. It's a bit more than just "someone's opinion".

I wonder if anyone else in a position to know about such things might have a similar opinion. Oh, look, here's an overview of what it takes to fire a teacher in Washington DC:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/special/2007/Bfeature0223.pdf

Newsweek also weighed in on Chicago teachers:

According to Newsweek, the percentage of Chicago teachers dismissed for poor performance between 2005 and 2008 was 0.1 percent. In a district where only one in four students is proficient in math and science, how is it possible that less than one in one thousand teachers is worthy of dismissal?

But because you say "teachers are fired all the time", it must be so. Whatever you say...

...asshole.

Yep, you really are an internet tough guy...

 

[squeeze berry]

Ohh...another internet tough guy...

All the time, eh?

"Joel Klein is chancellor of New York City's public school system, a monopoly so heavily regulated that sometimes it's unable to fire even dangerous teachers. The series of steps a principal must take to dismiss an instructor is Byzantine. "It's almost impossible," Klein complains."

Link: How to Fire an Incompetent Teacher - Reason.com

But hey, I'm sure the chancellor of New York's public school system is a...what was it..."stupid fuck" and you're the genius.

that's someone's opinion and it's not the entire country asshole

Just "Someone's" opinion, eh? He's only the Chancellor of NY's public school system. It's a bit more than just "someone's opinion".

I wonder if anyone else in a position to know about such things might have a similar opinion. Oh, look, here's an overview of what it takes to fire a teacher in Washington DC:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/special/2007/Bfeature0223.pdf

Newsweek also weighed in on Chicago teachers:

According to Newsweek, the percentage of Chicago teachers dismissed for poor performance between 2005 and 2008 was 0.1 percent. In a district where only one in four students is proficient in math and science, how is it possible that less than one in one thousand teachers is worthy of dismissal?

But because you say "teachers are fired all the time", it must be so. Whatever you say...

...asshole.

Yep, you really are an internet tough guy...

again, this is not the entire country. You are citing NYC not nation-wide, and it was a long time ago that they got rid of the rubber room.

Come back with a nation-wide figure and we will talk.

pussy

PS the drawing for DCPS was a hoot. nice little cartoon

BTW, i have worked in corporations where the employees had rights too. You just could not walk in a fire them on the spot. There had to be cause.



In the SD I work anyone can be put on a "December list."

You have until May to improve or your contract will not be renewed. Not exactly your "teachers can't be fired" wet dream iis it?

 

[eflatminor]

that's someone's opinion and it's not the entire country asshole

Just "Someone's" opinion, eh? He's only the Chancellor of NY's public school system. It's a bit more than just "someone's opinion".

I wonder if anyone else in a position to know about such things might have a similar opinion. Oh, look, here's an overview of what it takes to fire a teacher in Washington DC:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/special/2007/Bfeature0223.pdf

Newsweek also weighed in on Chicago teachers:



But because you say "teachers are fired all the time", it must be so. Whatever you say...

...asshole.

Yep, you really are an internet tough guy...

again, this is not the entire country. You are citing NYC not nation-wide, and it was a long time ago that they got rid of the rubber room.

Come back with a nation-wide figure and we will talk.

A nation-wide figure? There's one "figure" for this issue? Hmm...

Well, I showed how it's near impossible to fire a teacher in Chicago, Washington DC and New York City. No, that's not the entire nation, but it's not exactly a few small towns either. You have yet to back up your statement that "teachers are fired all the time". So, that's where we stand.

pussy ?

Clearly you are not capable of discussing a topic without childish name calling and vulgarities. Do you teach your children to speak in such a lowlife manner? That's just sad.

BTW, i have worked in corporations where the employees had rights too. You just could not walk in a fire them on the spot. There had to be cause.

It's called 'employment at will'. It means I get to walk from the job anytime I want and the employer gets to fire me if they want. It's the way the REAL world works. Of course, it makes no sense to fire someone without cause. The problem with teachers and their unions is even when there's plenty of cause, it remains near impossible to let them go.

In the SD I work anyone can be put on a "December list."

You have until May to improve or your contract will not be renewed.

What is "the SD"?

 

[regent]

It's puzzling. Chicago is the second highest in teacher pay, but the first in failing schools.

$76,000/year on average PLUS benefits! And they're offered double what they were demanding in pay which would have had them well over $80k within four years and they want to strike instead because in addition to running through the motions we ALSO expect them to perform?!!!

Teachers from all over the nation must be lined up to take those jobs, and yet the teacher turnover in Chicago seems to be quite high. I mean if half the teachers are gone in four years should that be significant? Perhaps teacher turnover is good for school districts? Each year the schools get new teachers with new methods, enthusiastic and bingo half are gone four years later and then new teachers with new methods, enthusiastic are hired. And those teachers that are just hired probably get smaller salaries, seems like a great system.

 

[Mr. H.]

Maybe that 4 year turnover is because they are denied tenure. No room for more tenured teachers as the system is bloated with crappy hires that have jobs for life.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Chicago teachers to strike after talks fail

...And talks fail for the reason teachers' unions are most afraid of, being held to account for their performance.

Emanuel said the district had offered the teachers a 16 percent pay raise over four years, doubling an earlier offer.

Lewis said she would not prioritize the issues, saying that they all were important to teachers.
That included concern over a new evaluation that she said would be based too heavily on students' standardized test scores, which she said would be unfair to teachers because it could not adequately account for outside factors that affect student performance, including poverty, violence and homelessness.

I'm sick to death of hearing the crying and whining from those who apparently see absolutely NO WAY to evaluate teachers so as to provide our children only the BEST, MOST EFFECTIVE educators.
I know there are some educators among us on USMB who will likely take tons of offense and attempt to knee jerk to labeling me "anti teacher".

But before you do, tell me what other profession is exempted from any of the direct effects of their performance. Teachers, for some inexplicable reason, have set themselves apart from the rest of society in that they'd like us all to believe there is no way to accurately gauge their effectiveness as all apparent failures MUST be pinned on the parents, society, demographics or some other arbitrary influence.

These people were offered an ENTIRE YEAR to "tweak" the new evaluation proposals to ENSURE that everything possible was done in creating a legitimate, fair means by which to measure success.

As a result of the unions' refusal to allow their people to do their job, about 400,000 Chicago students will be running the streets today, tomorrow and beyond. Great idea in a city with an exploding murder rate.

Now I get why you might not want to be held to account for doing your job. We all have days when we wish we'd done things differently. But for the love of all things ridiculously deceitful, STOP standing in the way of more PROGRESSIVE (gotta love that word) educators and systems who do in fact hold their staff to account and whose success or failure depends entirely on their own ability to do their job. Their track record speaks for itself and when they fail, they're gone. Unlike you who fight for the "right to fail".

Clearly the best way to "evaluate" teachers is to punish them for the failings of their students' parents - the Republican Way. - you teach kids from shitty backgrounds, we penalize you - you teach kids from good backgrounds, awesome, you get a raise!

 

[squeeze berry]

Just "Someone's" opinion, eh? He's only the Chancellor of NY's public school system. It's a bit more than just "someone's opinion".

I wonder if anyone else in a position to know about such things might have a similar opinion. Oh, look, here's an overview of what it takes to fire a teacher in Washington DC:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/special/2007/Bfeature0223.pdf

Newsweek also weighed in on Chicago teachers:



But because you say "teachers are fired all the time", it must be so. Whatever you say...



Yep, you really are an internet tough guy...

again, this is not the entire country. You are citing NYC not nation-wide, and it was a long time ago that they got rid of the rubber room.

Come back with a nation-wide figure and we will talk.

A nation-wide figure? There's one "figure" for this issue? Hmm...

Well, I showed how it's near impossible to fire a teacher in Chicago, Washington DC and New York City. No, that's not the entire nation, but it's not exactly a few small towns either. You have yet to back up your statement that "teachers are fired all the time". So, that's where we stand.



Clearly you are not capable of discussing a topic without childish name calling and vulgarities. Do you teach your children to speak in such a lowlife manner? That's just sad.

BTW, i have worked in corporations where the employees had rights too. You just could not walk in a fire them on the spot. There had to be cause.

It's called 'employment at will'. It means I get to walk from the job anytime I want and the employer gets to fire me if they want. It's the way the REAL world works. Of course, it makes no sense to fire someone without cause. The problem with teachers and their unions is even when there's plenty of cause, it remains near impossible to let them go.

In the SD I work anyone can be put on a "December list."

You have until May to improve or your contract will not be renewed.

What is "the SD"?

you are saying that it's nearly impossible to fire teachers?

Then how in hell did Michelle Rhee fire hundreds of DCPS teachers a couple years ago?

You are just not as smart as you think you are.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

again, this is not the entire country. You are citing NYC not nation-wide, and it was a long time ago that they got rid of the rubber room.

Come back with a nation-wide figure and we will talk.

A nation-wide figure? There's one "figure" for this issue? Hmm...

Well, I showed how it's near impossible to fire a teacher in Chicago, Washington DC and New York City. No, that's not the entire nation, but it's not exactly a few small towns either. You have yet to back up your statement that "teachers are fired all the time". So, that's where we stand.



Clearly you are not capable of discussing a topic without childish name calling and vulgarities. Do you teach your children to speak in such a lowlife manner? That's just sad.



It's called 'employment at will'. It means I get to walk from the job anytime I want and the employer gets to fire me if they want. It's the way the REAL world works. Of course, it makes no sense to fire someone without cause. The problem with teachers and their unions is even when there's plenty of cause, it remains near impossible to let them go.

In the SD I work anyone can be put on a "December list."

You have until May to improve or your contract will not be renewed.

What is "the SD"?

you are saying that it's nearly impossible to fire teachers?

Then how in hell did Michelle Rhee fire hundreds of DCPS teachers a couple years ago?

You are just not as smart as you think you are.

Facts aren't relevant to these people. You can't fire teachers, ever, and they're teaching all the kids about homosexual sexual techniques in kindergarten.

 

[eflatminor]

again, this is not the entire country. You are citing NYC not nation-wide, and it was a long time ago that they got rid of the rubber room.

Come back with a nation-wide figure and we will talk.

A nation-wide figure? There's one "figure" for this issue? Hmm...

Well, I showed how it's near impossible to fire a teacher in Chicago, Washington DC and New York City. No, that's not the entire nation, but it's not exactly a few small towns either. You have yet to back up your statement that "teachers are fired all the time". So, that's where we stand.



Clearly you are not capable of discussing a topic without childish name calling and vulgarities. Do you teach your children to speak in such a lowlife manner? That's just sad.



It's called 'employment at will'. It means I get to walk from the job anytime I want and the employer gets to fire me if they want. It's the way the REAL world works. Of course, it makes no sense to fire someone without cause. The problem with teachers and their unions is even when there's plenty of cause, it remains near impossible to let them go.

In the SD I work anyone can be put on a "December list."

You have until May to improve or your contract will not be renewed.

What is "the SD"?

you are saying that it's nearly impossible to fire teachers?

Then how in hell did Michelle Rhee fire hundreds of DCPS teachers a couple years ago?

Sorry, you'll have to provide a "nation-wide" figure demonstrating just how easy it is to fire a teacher. Your rule, not mine.

You are just not as smart as you think you are

I never said I was smart. Pay attention.

 

[Annie]

Before gaining tenure, many teachers are weeded out. The real problem is tenured teachers that made it to that point and shouldn't have. There are also folks that just stop caring, for whatever reason, but if tenured?

So, what happens to those that are deemed, not fit for teaching?

City to close 'rubber rooms,' $30M detention halls for teachers accused of major violations - New York Daily News

they got rid of the rubber room years ago and once again it's NY city schools

As the article said, but moved them into other paid, non-teaching positions. The drain hasn't left.

 

[regent]

Most of us have some expertise, on schools and the whole schmear of education. How did we acquire that expertise by attendng school as students. I went to school on the south side of Chicago and dropped out in the ninth grade, and as I look back I can't believe what went on in those schools. Just for the teacher to survive was an accomplishment. A class might begin with one set of students and as the year progresses the teacher ends up with another set of students. How does one judge a teacher on standardized tests when they may have had only a percentage of the students for the term? Evaluating teachers is needed, but the evaluations have to be based on something real and standardized tests may not be standardized.
If every fourth grade class was exactly the same, same materials, same number of students per room, same IQ's, same everything, standarized tests might be great, but that would mean standardized schools, standardized administrators, standardized parents, standardized everything for them to be standard. Medical doctors have been working with pretty much the same product most of their careers but not teachers.
We need a different way of evaluating.

 

[squeeze berry]

A nation-wide figure? There's one "figure" for this issue? Hmm...

Well, I showed how it's near impossible to fire a teacher in Chicago, Washington DC and New York City. No, that's not the entire nation, but it's not exactly a few small towns either. You have yet to back up your statement that "teachers are fired all the time". So, that's where we stand.



Clearly you are not capable of discussing a topic without childish name calling and vulgarities. Do you teach your children to speak in such a lowlife manner? That's just sad.



It's called 'employment at will'. It means I get to walk from the job anytime I want and the employer gets to fire me if they want. It's the way the REAL world works. Of course, it makes no sense to fire someone without cause. The problem with teachers and their unions is even when there's plenty of cause, it remains near impossible to let them go.



What is "the SD"?

you are saying that it's nearly impossible to fire teachers?

Then how in hell did Michelle Rhee fire hundreds of DCPS teachers a couple years ago?

Sorry, you'll have to provide a "nation-wide" figure demonstrating just how easy it is to fire a teacher. Your rule, not mine.

You are just not as smart as you think you are

I never said I was smart. Pay attention.

I just proved you wrong.

butt hurt much?

 

[squeeze berry]

Before gaining tenure, many teachers are weeded out. The real problem is tenured teachers that made it to that point and shouldn't have. There are also folks that just stop caring, for whatever reason, but if tenured?

So, what happens to those that are deemed, not fit for teaching?

City to close 'rubber rooms,' $30M detention halls for teachers accused of major violations - New York Daily News

they got rid of the rubber room years ago and once again it's NY city schools

As the article said, but moved them into other paid, non-teaching positions. The drain hasn't left.

again.

this is one place.

not everywhere in the country.

BTW, most teachers do not get the same compensation as CPS.

Others SDa pay waaaaay lower.

Some of you are over generalizing, no waaaay over generalizing.

 

[eflatminor]

you are saying that it's nearly impossible to fire teachers?

Then how in hell did Michelle Rhee fire hundreds of DCPS teachers a couple years ago?

Sorry, you'll have to provide a "nation-wide" figure demonstrating just how easy it is to fire a teacher. Your rule, not mine.

You are just not as smart as you think you are

I never said I was smart. Pay attention.

I just proved you wrong.

butt hurt much?

So where's the nation-wide figure demonstrating how easy it is to fire a teacher?

Hmm...

Butt hurt? Again with the vulgarities. Is that how you teach children?