Chicago Teachers Strike Over Accountability

[Annie]

I do not side with the CTU, my proximity to Chicago has led me to be in dozens of workshops with CPS teachers. The thing about teacher workshops, inevitably one is forced into 'work groups.' Some of those teachers are great, could easily be in suburban schools with 'easier' students. However most of the CPS teachers sign into the workshops, then head out to do whatever, coming in for the last period of time, to sign out and get credit for the workshop. Oh there's always the whiners that say, 'the workshop isn't telling me anything I don't know.' That may be, however there's little evidence that they are practicing what they do 'know'.

On the other hand, the proposed methodology of assessing teachers heavily weighted on student performance regarding standardized testing is wrong on multiple levels:

*Most standardized testing is now taking place in late September, early October. The teacher is being rated on students actual performance from previous year.

*Even if the above wasn't an issue, classes are skewed. Some high, some low, most are average; except in areas of skewed low income. The last are mostly found in urban and rural districts. Better measure would be beginning of year and end of year assessments. How much did the students improve? It may be the 'class avg' is below grade level, but the average student improved by 2 grades.

*The formula being proposed encourages not just teaching to the test, indeed cheating on those same tests.

 

[IGetItAlready]

The difficulty our liberal friends have in standing up for these "teachers" is pretty telling.
Another thread fail as half the people here have no "clever" response.

the problem is how do you determine how well a teacher performs?

if the teacher delivers the lessons and covers the scope and sequence of the course and all the kids fail then what?



What if you are a teacher in a good school, the school i teach in, and 98% of the students pass the state tests on the first try and still no teachers get a raise?

this may not be your clever response, but it's one coming from experience of being in the system and seeing the other side.

I was hoping you might respond Berry.
First of all, I want you to know that believe it or not, you do in fact have my utmost respect for what you do each day to make a difference in kids' lives. Sincerely.


As to your question, I simply don't know. It is however quite clear that throwing an incessant stream of money at the problem of failing public schools is not now nor has it ever solved the problem.
I think giving educators a full year to improve their evaluation process is pretty reasonable. Where all reason seems to fail is in the knee jerk reactions on the part of the unions and some educators to oppose any and all attempts to have teachers' performance appraised.
For Pete's sake Berry you guys are educators, YOU come up with a system that gives the public what it deserves for a wage that reflects one's effectiveness in their role as a service provider.
And if that's an issue, please get out of the way of more progressive methods of improving the quality of the service.
The unions, as always, want it all which is EXACTLY why there should be NO public sector unions as the quality of the service to the public at large is at stake...and always seems to lose and that to me, as a public sector employer, is unacceptable.
Give us what we want for our money or stand aside as we create in a private market, the product we're looking for. We've already established that more and more money will do NOTHING, so reducing the amount of money thrown at public education while reducing the number of operating schools would seem to have little detrimental effect, except upon good educators who will then have NO trouble getting jobs in the alternatives who seek out "good educators".

 

[eflatminor]

the problem is how do you determine how well a teacher performs?

When government monopolizes a market as they do with education, this becomes very difficult. In a free market, it's easy because the customers get to determine which schools and which teachers are performing well. The market should decide, not a bureaucrat.

if the teacher delivers the lessons and covers the scope and sequence of the course and all the kids fail then what?

The customers will choose another school that's figured out how to EFFECTIVELY educate the kids at various cost points.

What if you are a teacher in a good school, the school i teach in, and 98% of the students pass the state tests on the first try and still no teachers get a raise?

Another unfortunate byproduct of the government monopoly. In a free market, good teachers in good schools would earn top dollar. There is no such opportunity to differentiate excellent from poor teachers with the status quo. Same goes for administrators...and janitors too.

 

[blimpo]

If it's so easy, there might be plenty of openings.

All accountability in this stuff is on teachers with none on the kids that are supposed to learn.

In that area, teachers need hazard pay for just going to work.

Unless you've experienced it you don't really know.

All the tea in China couldn't get me to work in that war-torn environment, and probably none of you either.

understand that the accountability on the part of the student WILL catch up and have it's day...jeezus already, who's teaching whom here?

Sure they will...in a dream world maybe..

 

[IGetItAlready]

If it's so easy, there might be plenty of openings.

All accountability in this stuff is on teachers with none on the kids that are supposed to learn.

In that area, teachers need hazard pay for just going to work.

Unless you've experienced it you don't really know.

All the tea in China couldn't get me to work in that war-torn environment, and probably none of you either.

understand that the accountability on the part of the student WILL catch up and have it's day...jeezus already, who's teaching whom here?

Sure they will...in a dream world maybe..

Let me help you with all that...
You're right, the kids should be accountable for their own performance as well and those who refuse to do so will have it come back to them in spades when the best job they can ever hope to get requires a hairnet and a name tag.
The issue at hand isn't about the students. At some point you need to make a clear distinction between yourself and your students. You're the adult. Grow a desire to achieve in life and be rewarded for your success and we can talk.

 

[squeeze berry]

The difficulty our liberal friends have in standing up for these "teachers" is pretty telling.
Another thread fail as half the people here have no "clever" response.

the problem is how do you determine how well a teacher performs?

if the teacher delivers the lessons and covers the scope and sequence of the course and all the kids fail then what?



What if you are a teacher in a good school, the school i teach in, and 98% of the students pass the state tests on the first try and still no teachers get a raise?

this may not be your clever response, but it's one coming from experience of being in the system and seeing the other side.

I was hoping you might respond Berry.
First of all, I want you to know that believe it or not, you do in fact have my utmost respect for what you do each day to make a difference in kids' lives. Sincerely.


As to your question, I simply don't know. It is however quite clear that throwing an incessant stream of money at the problem of failing public schools is not now nor has it ever solved the problem.
I think giving educators a full year to improve their evaluation process is pretty reasonable. Where all reason seems to fail is in the knee jerk reactions on the part of the unions and some educators to oppose any and all attempts to have teachers' performance appraised.
For Pete's sake Berry you guys are educators, YOU come up with a system that gives the public what it deserves for a wage that reflects one's effectiveness in their role as a service provider.
And if that's an issue, please get out of the way of more progressive methods of improving the quality of the service.
The unions, as always, want it all which is EXACTLY why there should be NO public sector unions as the quality of the service to the public at large is at stake...and always seems to lose and that to me, as a public sector employer, is unacceptable.
Give us what we want for our money or stand aside as we create in a private market, the product we're looking for. We've already established that more and more money will do NOTHING, so reducing the amount of money thrown at public education while reducing the number of operating schools would seem to have little detrimental effect, except upon good educators who will then have NO trouble getting jobs in the alternatives who seek out "good educators".

my contention all along is that the public education system in this country is not as bad as many make out.

I also contend that really "bad' teachers are few and far between.

Remember, teachers are teachers because they were good students. They have had to jump through hoops to get a license.

Don't let a few bad apples fool you.

About the workshops: we did not have time in the day to implement all the stuff they want us to do in the dozens of workshops we take. My approach; coomom sense. I haver an idea where I want to go with the curriculum and adjust as needed.

BTW, I have to make up everything. no texts, no workbooks no nothin ( grammar intentional)

and some of that stuff in the workshops is crazy. One workshop told us white people that we were overprivileged and should focus on the minority students.

MY other contention is that many students are incapable or unwilling to excell at academics. Many are not very bright some don't give a shit.

how can you motivate the unwilling or raise up the unable. there has to be some common sense used.

About half of the population is motivated and working the other half is not.

sound familiar?

At the end of the day I consider my job to be just that, a job.

a job just like a baseball player, a truck driver, a secretary or a garbage collector.

the only difference is that you don't see threads bashing those occupations.

I don't make a lot of money. all I ask for is some respect.

Fat chance that ever happening.

 

[IGetItAlready]

About the workshops: we did not have time in the day to implement all the stuff they want us to do in the dozens of workshops we take. My approach; coomom sense. I haver an idea where I want to go with the curriculum and adjust as needed.

You over look Annie's point which was that in her experience, many educators just barely attended the workshops and even then often do the bare minimum necessary to say they had met the requirement.

At the end of the day I consider my job to be just that, a job.

a job just like a baseball player, a truck driver, a secretary or a garbage collector.

the only difference is that you don't see threads bashing those occupations.

The reason for that is that in the professions you mention, as with just about every profession, clear and blatant failure results in termination. Therefore, there's no need to bitch about it.

I don't make a lot of money. all I ask for is some respect.

Fat chance that ever happening.

That is another problem imho as a public sector employer.
I believe you SHOULD make more money IF you're good at what you do, again, just as in every other profession. And wouldn't it stand to reason that the whole "respect" issue, or lack there of might all but evaporate if the accountability issue were addressed?

 

[eflatminor]

my contention all along is that the public education system in this country is not as bad as many make out.

That's hard to imagine when we look at places like Illinois where a quarter of students can't manage to even graduate much less thrive. And for minorities, it's even worse. Nearly half of Black and Latino students drop out. If that's not as bad as many make out, it's still pretty damn bad.

But even if you're right that public education is not as bad as it looks, my contention is that the education system in this country COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER if we'd just let the normal market forces work...the same forces that make so many other markets in America the best in the world. Without competition, the need to innovate and consequences for bad decisions, none of this is going to change for the better.

 

[Katzndogz]

Market forces are going to work no matter how much money is thrown at public schools. What the teachers want to stop is vouchers because that gives financial oomph to parental decisions.

 

[blimpo]

They do not want to be judged on a standard as they understand the Negro can't compete. These teachers understand that they just can't do it.

Hell no they can't do it. They've completely walked away from the useful curriculum of reading, science and math and have taken it upon themselves to instead teach progressive doctrine centered around feel good bullshit.
THAT'S why the Asians are kicking our asses where it matters. While we teach Billy that it's okay to have 3 dads or whatever our heroes in education consider themselves successful if Billy shows up for his indoctrination sessions each day. Any further measure of success or failure on the part of the educator is "unfair".

It's like hiring a wolf pack to raise your kids and then wondering a decade and a half later what the hell happened...

The more you post, the more you show your total ignorance about what is and isn't taught.

Instead of spouting off, volunteer a few days at different grade levels and report back on what you've seen.

 

[squeeze berry]

understand that the accountability on the part of the student WILL catch up and have it's day...jeezus already, who's teaching whom here?

Sure they will...in a dream world maybe..

Let me help you with all that...
You're right, the kids should be accountable for their own performance as well and those who refuse to do so will have it come back to them in spades when the best job they can ever hope to get requires a hairnet and a name tag.
The issue at hand isn't about the students. At some point you need to make a clear distinction between yourself and your students. You're the adult. Grow a desire to achieve in life and be rewarded for your success and we can talk.

total arrogance on your part

negged

 

[IGetItAlready]

Sure they will...in a dream world maybe..

Let me help you with all that...
You're right, the kids should be accountable for their own performance as well and those who refuse to do so will have it come back to them in spades when the best job they can ever hope to get requires a hairnet and a name tag.
The issue at hand isn't about the students. At some point you need to make a clear distinction between yourself and your students. You're the adult. Grow a desire to achieve in life and be rewarded for your success and we can talk.

total arrogance on your part

negged

Clearly overly frustrated yet again, as has been the case in the past when this issue has been raised.
Negged back.

 

[whitehall]

There are all kinds of issues involved in the strike. The union teachers make about 72k with lavish benefits and paid vacation but they don't like being forced to work a 7 hour day and a couple of extra bucks squeezed out of the struggling middle class wouldn't hurt either. It's basically a game of chicken between the municipal unions and the mayor and the liberal media usually comes out on the side of the unions like we saw in Minn only this time we have unions against a liberal democrat so guess what? The media is virtually ignoring the situation and president Hussein is outa town getting bear hugs from pizza guys.

 

[eflatminor]

...but they don't like being forced to work a 7 hour day...

For nine months out of the year...must be tough.

Then again, the teachers do face the constant pressure of losing their job if the don't perform well. Oh wait, that's not the case either.

What are they bitching about again?

 

[blimpo]

...but they don't like being forced to work a 7 hour day...

For nine months out of the year...must be tough.

Then again, the teachers do face the constant pressure of losing their job if the don't perform well. Oh wait, that's not the case either.

What are they bitching about again?

We used to have 9 month years when I was in 6th grade many decades ago, not any more...

I pay close to $800 a month for a single health care policy.

BTW- We had 3 first-year teachers quit during the week in the system I used to work in. With all the paperwork and political crap there's going to be more- count on it.

In Indiana, teachers must have 6 hours graduate credit every 5 years to just maintain a license. Guess where most teachers spend their summers?

A credit hour is now close to $300. We call the law that set these guidelines the "Professor Retirement Act".

 

[squeeze berry]

Let me help you with all that...
You're right, the kids should be accountable for their own performance as well and those who refuse to do so will have it come back to them in spades when the best job they can ever hope to get requires a hairnet and a name tag.
The issue at hand isn't about the students. At some point you need to make a clear distinction between yourself and your students. You're the adult. Grow a desire to achieve in life and be rewarded for your success and we can talk.

total arrogance on your part

negged

Clearly overly frustrated yet again, as has been the case in the past when this issue has been raised.
Negged back.

clearly you are a condescending prick.

PS

I worked my way through 2 masters degrees, wrong again asshole.

 

[squeeze berry]

...but they don't like being forced to work a 7 hour day...

For nine months out of the year...must be tough.

Then again, the teachers do face the constant pressure of losing their job if the don't perform well. Oh wait, that's not the case either.

What are they bitching about again?

We used to have 9 month years when I was in 6th grade many decades ago, not any more...

I pay close to $800 a month for a single health care policy.

BTW- We had 3 first-year teachers quit during the week in the system I used to work in. With all the paperwork and political crap there's going to be more- count on it.

In Indiana, teachers must have 6 hours graduate credit every 5 years to just maintain a license. Guess where most teachers spend their summers?

A credit hour is now close to $300. We call the law that set these guidelines the "Professor Retirement Act".

Being in specuial ed now we must, in addition to our masters and qualifying as highly qualified in various subjects, be fully licensed in any suject that is taught in a self-contained class.

Right now there are not enough special ed teachers qualified because of their needing to get all the endorsements just to teach special ed.

Many of the special ed teachers mentioned that if they became licensed in a suject they would get out of special ed.

I'm not worried about other people lining up out the door to take my job.

 

[eflatminor]

...but they don't like being forced to work a 7 hour day...

For nine months out of the year...must be tough.

Then again, the teachers do face the constant pressure of losing their job if the don't perform well. Oh wait, that's not the case either.

What are they bitching about again?

We used to have 9 month years when I was in 6th grade many decades ago, not any more...

Well, Chicago schools are in session (supposed to be anyway) from September 8 until June 18. That's pretty much nine months.

I pay close to $800 a month for a single health care policy.

Point? So what? You don't think everyone else pays for health insurance?

BTW- We had 3 first-year teachers quit during the week in the system I used to work in. With all the paperwork and political crap there's going to be more- count on it.

Point? So what? You don't think every industry has people burn out their first time out? Happens all the time. As though "paperwork and political crap" are unique to the education industry.

In Indiana, teachers must have 6 hours graduate credit every 5 years to just maintain a license. Guess where most teachers spend their summers?

Aww...because teaching is the only industry in which continuing education is required to keep a license? Six whole hours every 5 years...must be tough! Good God man, get over yourself.

A credit hour is now close to $300. We call the law that set these guidelines the "Professor Retirement Act".

Gosh, if the Chicago teachers only made decent money, they could afford $1800 every five years. Must suck living on $70k+ a year with guaranteed benefits and retirements and nearly 3 months off every year. But then there's the pressure of getting fired if you don't perform...

So I ask again, what are these teachers bitching about?

 

[blimpo]

For nine months out of the year...must be tough.

Then again, the teachers do face the constant pressure of losing their job if the don't perform well. Oh wait, that's not the case either.

What are they bitching about again?

We used to have 9 month years when I was in 6th grade many decades ago, not any more...

Well, Chicago schools are in session (supposed to be anyway) from September 8 until June 18. That's pretty much nine months


Point? So what? You don't think everyone else pays for health insurance?



Point? So what? You don't think every industry has people burn out their first time out? Happens all the time. As though "paperwork and political crap" are unique to the education industry.

In Indiana, teachers must have 6 hours graduate credit every 5 years to just maintain a license. Guess where most teachers spend their summers?

Aww...because teaching is the only industry in which continuing education is required to keep a license? Six whole hours every 5 years...must be tough! Good God man, get over yourself.

A credit hour is now close to $300. We call the law that set these guidelines the "Professor Retirement Act".

Gosh, if the Chicago teachers only made decent money, they could afford $1800 every five years. Must suck living on $70k+ a year with guaranteed benefits and retirements and nearly 3 months off every year. But then there's the pressure of getting fired if you don't perform...

So I ask again, what are these teachers bitching about?

Where I am: School dismisses for summer June 3--Starts back Aug 7
A summer of 2 months and 4 days. Where is that extra month for summer?

Health Insurance- At $800 a month OOP for a single plan, where is the great benefits teachers are thought to have?
Benefits are important when in a job with no opportunity for advancement. The best a teacher can hope for is to still have the job into the future. Also, a Christmas bonus or any bonus is nonexistant.

Time spent around the water cooler? None.. Bus duty and hall duty make the job from the time you walk in until you go home.
We did some comparisons a few years back with "office people" and they were shocked to see the actual minutes of the day "on task" was lopsided with the teachers working a lot more minutes each day.

Credit hours: Most professions are offered free seminars by sponsoring companies. Attending is hours toward re-licensing. Usually a great buffet lunch is included. When in private business I attended many of these and received credit toward my license.

Accountability: Under the new evaluation in my state, if 75% pass the state mandated test, according to our Superintendant of Ed, principals must evaluate 25% of their staff as inefficient or the principals aren't doing their job.
Under this "quota" system, it doesn't matter (other than suking up) what you do or how you do it, you'll eventually be a vicitm of the numbers game.

 

[eflatminor]

We used to have 9 month years when I was in 6th grade many decades ago, not any more...

Well, Chicago schools are in session (supposed to be anyway) from September 8 until June 18. That's pretty much nine months


Point? So what? You don't think everyone else pays for health insurance?



Point? So what? You don't think every industry has people burn out their first time out? Happens all the time. As though "paperwork and political crap" are unique to the education industry.



Aww...because teaching is the only industry in which continuing education is required to keep a license? Six whole hours every 5 years...must be tough! Good God man, get over yourself.

A credit hour is now close to $300. We call the law that set these guidelines the "Professor Retirement Act".

Gosh, if the Chicago teachers only made decent money, they could afford $1800 every five years. Must suck living on $70k+ a year with guaranteed benefits and retirements and nearly 3 months off every year. But then there's the pressure of getting fired if you don't perform...

So I ask again, what are these teachers bitching about?

Where I am: School dismisses for summer June 3--Starts back Aug 7
A summer of 2 months and 4 days. Where is that extra month for summer?

Gosh, only 9 weeks of vacation. Must suck...
You should move to Chicago. They get three months...well deserved to be sure...

Health Insurance- At $800 a month OOP for a single plan, where is the great benefits teachers are thought to have?

Clearly you have NO FRICKIN' IDEA what regular workers in private industry get in the form of benefits.

From the link:

(Chicago teachers)...pay only 3 percent of their health-care costs, their pensions receive 71 cents of every new dollar directed at public education, they make $27,000 more than their neighbors for an eight-month work-year, and they want more.

Link: Chicago Teachers Union strike unjust | Washington Times Communities

Benefits are important when in a job with no opportunity for advancement. The best a teacher can hope for is to still have the job into the future.

Why is that? Where is it stated that a teacher cannot advance? Sounds like a union mentality there. What exactly would stop you from getting into administration, management, etc?

Also, a Christmas bonus or any bonus is nonexistant.

Chicago has a 25% drop out rate (50% for Blacks and Latinos) while the kids that do remain in class can't read or do basic math...and you want a bonus?! Good God man!

Time spent around the water cooler? None.. Bus duty and hall duty make the job from the time you walk in until you go home.

You mean you have to actually work while being paid? The horror...

Credit hours: Most professions are offered free seminars by sponsoring companies.

Bullshit. Some, yes, "most", no fucking way. I've paid for every CE class I've ever had to take.

Accountability

Until you or any teacher could actually face termination for poor performance, nobody really gives a crap about your perceived "accountability"

Bottom line, you should be competing for your job just like everyone else. That doesn't happen when government monopolizes the market for affordable education.