CBS News' Lara Logan Breaks Silence On Horrific Rape Ordeal In Egypt

[The Gadfly]

Sunni,
Please don't try to rationalize such an act. You and I both know your own religion (the mainstream of it anyway) forbids treating a woman in that manner. We both know that is an evil act, and we both know that neither you, a Muslim man, nor I, a Christian man, would ever brutalize a woman in that fashion. We both know this is a vile, unspeakable, despicable thing to do; that those who did it belong to your is not a reason to excuse or make light of it. You know I would not do that, if a mob of Christians did such a thing to a Muslim woman.

I am in No way defending the immoral behavior of the men involved.

And if I would have be there. I would have tried to stop the attack.

I was just saying that I thought she was trying spin the incident into something more that it actually was.

In order to generate publicity to further her career as a journalist.

I would hope and think you would have tried to stop it; I believe you are better, than to allow it. Unfortunately, Sunni, I believe, having followed this story, that what Sunshine has said is the truth of what occurred. I take no joy nor satisfaction in in believing that there are yet people in this world who would take one of its major religions as a justification and inspiration for doing such a thing. I hope, I really hope, that American Muslims will make it clear to all of us that they view this sort of depravity as the abomination it is, an affront to man and God(Allah) alike.

 

[Sunni Man]

Hear me clearly, Sunni. I was not going to go there, but Sunshine has correctly described what this "touch rape" or "rape with fingers" is a euphemism for". I do not believe you as an American, are sufficiently naive as to not know that (though I would almost rather believe you are, than believe you could possibly know, and yet condone such an act in the name of your religion). If you would condone such an act; if Islam would condone such an act; then I must tell you, as a friend, a brother and fellow vet, that if that is what Islam is and does, then ultimately, there can be no peace between America and Islam. There are things, dark and vile things, which are so far beyond the pale of civilized conduct, that there can be no mercy, no tolerance, no forgiveness or understanding, for those who perpetrate them. I saw some of those things in Vietnam, done by the VC to their own people; I suspect you did too. THAT is what this mob was doing and attempting to do. This is not rape; or it is not "just" rape; it goes beyond that, into a realm of brutality so foul that I refuse to even describe it. A being who would participate in that is NOT a man, nor even an animal, but something worse and lower than either. No country, no religion, no entity, no people, which would condone, advocate, sanction or justify such, can call itself civilized.

And let me be perfectly clear.

I absolutely in No way condone or excuse the immoral and despicable behavior these men displayed.

What they did had nothing to do with Islam.

And the average Egyptian would be absolutely disgusted at what these men did.

They were just a mob gone insane; and there is no excuse for their actions. Period.

 

[gallantwarrior]

What you are failing to recognize is that the revolutionaries in Egypt DO love democracy! They fought for democracy. They wanted democracy. No one thought to ask what kind of democracy they wanted. In this part of the world, brutal dictators are replaced by brutal dictators. Hosni Mubarak was a brutal dictator. He kept the peace by using brutality. Christians lived mostly in peace with some random violent acts. There was a treaty with Israel. The nations heritage was secured. The Egyptians wanted to replace his brutality with another brutality but one that let them slaughter the Christians, tear up the treaty and destroy the unislamic artifacts of the ancients.

I can see where using brutality to govern animals like these might be feasible. Violence seems to be the only currency they understand, or respect.

 

[Intense]

Hear me clearly, Sunni. I was not going to go there, but Sunshine has correctly described what this "touch rape" or "rape with fingers" is a euphemism for". I do not believe you as an American, are sufficiently naive as to not know that (though I would almost rather believe you are, than believe you could possibly know, and yet condone such an act in the name of your religion). If you would condone such an act; if Islam would condone such an act; then I must tell you, as a friend, a brother and fellow vet, that if that is what Islam is and does, then ultimately, there can be no peace between America and Islam. There are things, dark and vile things, which are so far beyond the pale of civilized conduct, that there can be no mercy, no tolerance, no forgiveness or understanding, for those who perpetrate them. I saw some of those things in Vietnam, done by the VC to their own people; I suspect you did too. THAT is what this mob was doing and attempting to do. This is not rape; or it is not "just" rape; it goes beyond that, into a realm of brutality so foul that I refuse to even describe it. A being who would participate in that is NOT a man, nor even an animal, but something worse and lower than either. No country, no religion, no entity, no people, which would condone, advocate, sanction or justify such, can call itself civilized.

And let me be perfectly clear.

I absolutely in No way condone or excuse the immoral and despicable behavior these men displayed.

What they did had nothing to do with Islam.

And the average Egyptian would be absolutely disgusted at what these men did.

They were just a mob gone insane; and there is no excuse for their actions. Period.

Agreed. It's a downside to human nature, and it is inexcusable. It could also happen in any angry mob anywhere in the World. Another downside to Anarchy and lawlessness.

 

[Intense]

What you are failing to recognize is that the revolutionaries in Egypt DO love democracy! They fought for democracy. They wanted democracy. No one thought to ask what kind of democracy they wanted. In this part of the world, brutal dictators are replaced by brutal dictators. Hosni Mubarak was a brutal dictator. He kept the peace by using brutality. Christians lived mostly in peace with some random violent acts. There was a treaty with Israel. The nations heritage was secured. The Egyptians wanted to replace his brutality with another brutality but one that let them slaughter the Christians, tear up the treaty and destroy the unislamic artifacts of the ancients.

I can see where using brutality to govern animals like these might be feasible. Violence seems to be the only currency they understand, or respect.

Brutality breeds and feeds Brutality. Try leading by example.

 

[Sunni Man]

I would hope and think you would have tried to stop it; I believe you are better, than to allow it. Unfortunately, Sunni, I believe, having followed this story, that what Sunshine has said is the truth of what occurred. I take no joy nor satisfaction in in believing that there are yet people in this world who would take one of its major religions as a justification and inspiration for doing such a thing. I hope, I really hope, that American Muslims will make it clear to all of us that they view this sort of depravity as the abomination it is, an affront to man and God(Allah) alike.

People need to understand that it was "political" events that was the driving force behind the crowds/mobs in the streets of Egypt not religion.

They were trying to toss out a brutal dictator.

And religion basically didn't have anything to do with the protests.

 

[The Gadfly]

Hear me clearly, Sunni. I was not going to go there, but Sunshine has correctly described what this "touch rape" or "rape with fingers" is a euphemism for". I do not believe you as an American, are sufficiently naive as to not know that (though I would almost rather believe you are, than believe you could possibly know, and yet condone such an act in the name of your religion). If you would condone such an act; if Islam would condone such an act; then I must tell you, as a friend, a brother and fellow vet, that if that is what Islam is and does, then ultimately, there can be no peace between America and Islam. There are things, dark and vile things, which are so far beyond the pale of civilized conduct, that there can be no mercy, no tolerance, no forgiveness or understanding, for those who perpetrate them. I saw some of those things in Vietnam, done by the VC to their own people; I suspect you did too. THAT is what this mob was doing and attempting to do. This is not rape; or it is not "just" rape; it goes beyond that, into a realm of brutality so foul that I refuse to even describe it. A being who would participate in that is NOT a man, nor even an animal, but something worse and lower than either. No country, no religion, no entity, no people, which would condone, advocate, sanction or justify such, can call itself civilized.

And let me be perfectly clear.

I absolutely in No way condone or excuse the immoral and despicable behavior these men displayed.

What they did had nothing to do with Islam.

And the average Egyptian would be absolutely disgusted at what these men did.

They were just a mob gone insane; and there is no excuse for their actions. Period.

Thank you , Sunni. Really, thank you. I am a bit sensitive on the subject of brutality toward the innocent, after some of the things I saw in 'Nam. Dear God, I wish I could forget; there are some things we should never see.....I should shut up; I am having a bad night-they come, from time to time.

 

[gallantwarrior]

What you are failing to recognize is that the revolutionaries in Egypt DO love democracy! They fought for democracy. They wanted democracy. No one thought to ask what kind of democracy they wanted. In this part of the world, brutal dictators are replaced by brutal dictators. Hosni Mubarak was a brutal dictator. He kept the peace by using brutality. Christians lived mostly in peace with some random violent acts. There was a treaty with Israel. The nations heritage was secured. The Egyptians wanted to replace his brutality with another brutality but one that let them slaughter the Christians, tear up the treaty and destroy the unislamic artifacts of the ancients.

I can see where using brutality to govern animals like these might be feasible. Violence seems to be the only currency they understand, or respect.

Brutality breeds and feeds Brutality. Try leading by example.

Obama is supposedly leading by example. That hasn't gone so well, has it?

 

[The Gadfly]

I can see where using brutality to govern animals like these might be feasible. Violence seems to be the only currency they understand, or respect.

Brutality breeds and feeds Brutality. Try leading by example.

Obama is supposedly leading by example. That hasn't gone so well, has it?

Well, it might have...if the "example" was something more than an empty suit. It's a little difficult to follow a bubble of hot air, the way it drifts and blows around all over the place.......

 

[Sunni Man]

People in crowds do things they would never do as individuals.

A hundred years ago America was basically a Christian nation; and just about everybody went to Church.

Yet if a black person violated a social norm.

People would sometimes gather together into a frenzied mod and lynch the man.

Religion played no part in the event; it was just men giving in to their most base instincts.

 

[Sunshine]

People in crowds do things they would never do as individuals.

A hundred years ago America was basically a Christian nation; and just about everybody went to Church.

Yet if a black person violated a social norm.

People would sometimes gather together into a frenzied mod and lynch the man.

Religion played no part in the event; it was just men giving in to their most base instincts.

That wasn't even a nice try. That was pathetic. As are you, you filthy savage.

You cannot rationalize this or excuse it away by saying 'someone else did it too.' And this isn't 100 years ago. This is the 21st century. They used modern technology to pull this together then they were savage animals toward an American woman just as they are toward their own.

I've been there. I know how uncomfortable it is to be around middle eastern men on their own turf. The organization that sponsord us told us not to look them in the eye because that would provoke them. We had to have an armed guard with us. You are full of more shit than a bubbly fart.

You are a member of a club of men who are brutal savages and who can't get a woman to look at them unless she is in chains. And rationalizing this savage act by saying 'bu....bu....bu...100 years ago' doesn't excuse it. It merely reveals you for the brutal filthy savage that YOU are.

 

[Sunshine]

Sunni,
Please don't try to rationalize such an act. You and I both know your own religion (the mainstream of it anyway) forbids treating a woman in that manner. We both know that is an evil act, and we both know that neither you, a Muslim man, nor I, a Christian man, would ever brutalize a woman in that fashion. We both know this is a vile, unspeakable, despicable thing to do; that those who did it belong to your is not a reason to excuse or make light of it. You know I would not do that, if a mob of Christians did such a thing to a Muslim woman.

I am in No way defending the immoral behavior of the men involved.

And if I would have be there. I would have tried to stop the attack.

I was just saying that I thought she was trying spin the incident into something more that it actually was.

In order to generate publicity to further her career as a journalist.

You ARE defending it by claiming it is spin. This is America. People deserve to know what happens to us in savage countries. YOUR thinking is she should just shut it up because it makes you look bad. Well, here's a flash. You looked bad before.

 

[Sunshine]

Sunni,
Please don't try to rationalize such an act. You and I both know your own religion (the mainstream of it anyway) forbids treating a woman in that manner. We both know that is an evil act, and we both know that neither you, a Muslim man, nor I, a Christian man, would ever brutalize a woman in that fashion. We both know this is a vile, unspeakable, despicable thing to do; that those who did it belong to your is not a reason to excuse or make light of it. You know I would not do that, if a mob of Christians did such a thing to a Muslim woman.

I am in No way defending the immoral behavior of the men involved.

And if I would have be there. I would have tried to stop the attack.

I was just saying that I thought she was trying spin the incident into something more that it actually was.

In order to generate publicity to further her career as a journalist.

Do you really believe that? I believe it is going to take her years, to cope with the incident, if not the rest of her life.

PTSD never goes away. I have worked with veterans and with rape victims. There is nothing that will take it away. The person just had to learn to deal with the nightmares, flashbacks (reliving - thinking it is happening again), intrusive thoughts, exaggerated startle reflex, psychological reactivity. It never goes away.

 

[Sunshine]

They didn't just 'touch' her. The article I posted below states she sustained internal injuries. I'm sure she had to have vaginal and rectal repair and probably a hysterectomy. But then I had a student from Iraq who said a lot of middle eastern women have colostomies because of the brutal sex that is perpetrated upon them as young children who are forced to marry men.

You can have internal injuries from just being punched or kicked.

The rest of your post is just more idiotic nonsense that you continually make up.

You are a disgusting filthy animal, just like your muslim brothers.

 

[Sunshine]

Fair enough, but repression is never a successful long-term strategy.
Eventually the dictators would have been overthrown in an even messier fashion and, as US puppets, the hate would have been directed straight at the US.

It's going to be ugly over there for a long time while everyone sorts themselves out but it has to happen - sooner or later.
The US was right not to prop up totalitarian regimes against the will of the people because sooner or later they would have been on the losing side.

And you think an islamic theocracy that does this to a woman is not repressive? Do you really think the hate will not 'be directed straight at us' once that muslim brotherhood gets its ducks in a row?

I said it's going to be ugly for a long time but they need to sort it out themselves.

While we send them billions to sort with! Bullshit. We need to pressure our government to stop their funding. Now.

 

[Sunshine]

And you think an islamic theocracy that does this to a woman is not repressive? Do you really think the hate will not 'be directed straight at us' once that muslim brotherhood gets its ducks in a row?

I said it's going to be ugly for a long time but they need to sort it out themselves.

If that is what they do, they do not "need to sort it out". They NEED to be destroyed, as a cancer on the civilized world!

Agreed. And we NEED to get them out of this country before our children and grandchildren have to be treated this way!

 

[Sunni Man]

LOL, sounds like Lil Miss Sunshine woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

 

[High_Gravity]

Lara Logan is just another journalist seeking front page publicity by sensationalizing an incident that happened to her.

In her own words, "They were raping me with their hands".

What the heck does that mean??

She never claimed any sort of penetration took place.

So basically she had her clothes torn off and a lot of guys touched her.

In reality, she was never raped.

And had no business being there in the first place.

But no doubt she will get a book and movie deal worth millions for her sensational "touch rape" story.

There doesn't have to be penis to vagina penetration for it to be rape Sunni, if a man pins a woman down and inserts his fingers into her vagina or ass it is rape, and this happened to this woman numerous times by these men.

 

[High_Gravity]

I have been watching this thread for a few days. I think there are some fairly valid points being made from several different directions.


Egypt is not a safe place. From the day I set foot in Cairo until the day I left the place people from there were constantly telling us how 'hospitable' the Egyptian people are. Yet, I didn't feel comfortable. Others in my group went out alone or in pairs, but I would not go out unless I was with a group, and I would not shop any street of the bazaar except where the restaurant was.

The organization that sponsored our trip told us not to wear sandles and to dress modestly. A guy I know told me to carry a scarf at all times because they don't much care for redheads. I got tired one day and sat down with our guides. They expressed disgust when a group of scantily clad women came in. I only made the mistake of getting on an elevator alone with 2 men one time. That was all it took.

I think there are some valid points about the fact that our government supported a 'revolution' that ushered in a theocracy.

The point about romanticizing the place because of the pyramids is valid. Cairo is filthy. Giza not much better. The traffic is horrible in Cairo and they don't seem to care if they run you over. As to her being there at all. Oddly enough, it is a women's workplace rights issue to begin with. If she were told 'sorry, only men can go' that would be discrimination in our country. Her company could not discriminate. She did have a bodyguard, though. He just couldn't fight off a mob of 300 men. And that brings me to this 'rape'. They fisted her for almost an hour. They were pulling her limbs and hair trying to dismember her and pull her scalp off her skull. She probably had to have surgery, but most likely we will never hear about that. A woman's body cannot stand being fisted by hundreds of men without causing severe tissue damage. This woman's rape was a brutal savage assault. We have just sent special forces to rescue a sole American aid worker from Somalia kidnapers. Why, now, do we continue to send money to Egypt. This woman was a reporter. This was an assault not only on her, but also on one of the cardinal freedoms of a democracy - freedom of the press. She was there with a camera crew and a body guard and they were powerless. Why can't people see what is occurring here? Why do Americans continue to defend islam and compare its savage modern day actions to Christianity in the middle ages when people were ignorant and didn't know any better. This is the 21st century, folks. Why did we tolerate this?

As to Obama: Well I have tried to make time to listen to his 'outreach' to the muslim world that occurred at Cairo University just 4 days after I was there as I sure didn't have time to then. I have wondered if there was any kind of signal or code or words that said, 'OK, now it's time to throw off the US.' Because that's what they did. Granted the guys they overthrew in the ME were dictators but they were our guys, all of them. We crapped out on them. Likely all those countries who have had a 'revolution' will unite through that muslim brotherhood, are beginning to already, and cause us as much trouble for the US as they can. Sadly we did supported that so called revolution. We need to stop supporting theocracies. We don't let school children pray in this country, but we will go support a ruthless regime that treats certain of their people worse than animals in the name of a religion. That's just wrong. I will not dismiss the notion that this was Obama's intent when he went to Cairo. Not yet, anyway.

I won't go back. Ever. I won't encourage anyone else to go. There are other pyramids in safer places that are just as impressive as the ones in Giza.

You pretty much nailed it Sunshine, in regards to Egypt alot of us Yankees and Westerner's don't have a fucking clue what its really like there, most people base their judegements off of history books about Ancient Egypt, documentaries about the Pyramids etc, shoot I remember when I was a boy my father bought me books about Ancient Egypt, the Mummies and the Pharaoh's for my birthday, I was very impressed by it at the time and wanted to go there to visit. THAT is the kind of attitude alot of people still have but as adults, I faced the reality of it when I joined the Military and did 2 deployments to the Middle East. The bottom line is Ancient Egypt is long gone, and the new Egypt is not what we think it is, for the most part it is a backwards third world country with a population that is dominated by Islam, and the truth is if we didn't need Egypt to keep the truce with Israel or access to the Suez Canal we would not even fart in their direction.

 

[High_Gravity]

They didn't just 'touch' her. The article I posted below states she sustained internal injuries. I'm sure she had to have vaginal and rectal repair and probably a hysterectomy. But then I had a student from Iraq who said a lot of middle eastern women have colostomies because of the brutal sex that is perpetrated upon them as young children who are forced to marry men.

You can have internal injuries from just being punched or kicked.

The rest of your post is just more idiotic nonsense that you continually make up.

You are a disgusting filthy animal, just like your muslim brothers.

That's uncalled for, Sunni did not say this rape was ok or make any excuses for the mob.