Capitalism vs Socialism

[PeterPilot]

Capitalism running amok causes homelessness?

Come on, really?

Capitalism run amok, crony capitalism, corporations run by humans who do not know right from wrong, has given us what we have.

Understand I'm not arguing against capitalism, I'm not arguing for socialism or communism, I'm merely pointing out what Adam Smith noted several centuries ago, without a moral and ethical society, open market capitalism will not function properly.

Another factor in the homelessness we see is the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

 

[georgephillip]

Whenever economic power is kept separate from state power.

Is that even possible in a system where the state charters corporations, and corporations produce the lions' share of the private wealth that determines who controls of the state?

Corporate Charter: Definition, Purpose, and Legal Requirements.

"What Is a Corporate Charter?​

"A corporate charter, also known as a 'charter' or 'articles of incorporation,' is a written document filed with the Secretary of State (or registrar in Canada) by the founders of a corporation. It details the major components of a company, such as its objectives, structure, and planned operations. If approved by the state, the company becomes a legal corporation."

 

[dblack]

Is that even possible in a system where the state charters corporations, and corporations produce the lions' share of the private wealth that determines who controls of the state?

Probably not. States shouldn't be directing corporate organization, nor giving them special perks like limited liability.

In any case, the idea that capitalism leads to oligarchy is false. Government attempts to co-opt economic power is what creates an oligarchy - the opposite of capitalism. But socialists want to pretend that freedom is to blame.

 

[georgephillip]

n any case, the idea that capitalism leads to oligarchy is false. Government attempts to co-opt economic power is what creates an oligarchy - the opposite of capitalism. But socialists want to pretend that freedom is to blame.

Private ownership of the means of production guarantees corporations will use their economic power to co-op political power regardless of any democratic opposition to their capitalist/oligarchic interests.

Oligarchy - Wikipedia.

"A business group might be defined as an oligarchy if it satisfies all of the following conditions:

• "Owners are the largest private owners in the country.
• It possesses sufficient political power to promote its own interests.
• Owners control multiple businesses, which intensively coordinate their activities."

 

[dblack]

Private ownership of the means of production guarantees corporations will use their economic power to co-op political power regardless of any democratic opposition to their capitalist/oligarchic interests.

Yes. That's always the claim of socialists. But it's never made much sense. That kind of collusion depends on having a government with the power to do their bidding and corrupt officials willing to sell favors. That's has nothing to do with "private ownership of the means of production."

 

[georgephillip]

Yes. That's always the claim of socialists. But it's never made much sense. That kind of collusion depends on having a government with the power to do their bidding and corrupt officials willing to sell favors. That's has nothing to do with "private ownership of the means of production."

Private ownership of the means of production mean 1% to 3% of society decide what to produce, when to produce it, where to produce it, and how to distribute any surplus.

That one to three percent of society then distribute profits in such a way to enhance their corruption of governmental power.

Diminishing the power of democratic government will only facilitate a corporate state transition to outright fascism.

 

[dblack]

Private ownership of the means of production mean 1% to 3% of society decide what to produce, when to produce it, where to produce it, and how to distribute any surplus.

What?? Why? Why not 4%?

Private ownership means people are free to give their money to whomever they want.

 

[georgephillip]

What?? Why? Why not 4%?

Private ownership means people are free to give their money to whomever they want.

Why not a majority of society deciding what to produce, where to produce it, and how to distribute any surplus? Private ownership means public resources like land, water, and minerals are auctioned off to the highest bidders.

 

[Ringo]

Humanity is already producing more food, clothing and shelter than the entire world population needs. But people are still starving, fighting and living on the streets because of the disgusting distribution system. Capitalism has outlived itself like that nasty cobra in the Mowgli story and is only getting in the way.

 

[georgephillip]

The capitalist mode of production is characterized by private ownership of the means of production, extraction of surplus value by the owning class for the purpose of capital accumulation, wage-based labour and—at least as far as commodities are concerned—being market-based."

The "owning class" uses a fraction of its ever-increasing private wealth to own the political process as well; thereby, driving economic inequality to its current historic level.

One chart that shows how much worse income inequality is in America than Europe

 

[Ringo]

 

[georgephillip]

What's old is new again:

IV. EXPORT OF CAPITAL

"Typical of the old capitalism, when free competition held undivided sway, was the export of goods. Typical of the latest stage of capitalism, when monopolies rule, is the export of capital."

Capitalism permits investors to profit from the miseries of war we see on display today in Ukraine and Gaza; what could go wrong in a world filled with nuclear weapons?

 

[Ringo]

I understand perfectly well why so many people profess the cannibalistic capitalist dogma.
They are too weak in spirit for the realization of the injustice of the world to break them. It is easier for them to convince themselves that wars are unilaterally started by mythical "mad tyrants", that the rich are rich because they are smarter than the poor, that Stalin put more people in camps than lived in the country at that time, that exploitation doesn't exist....
Convince themselves of anything, so long as their cramped and musty inner world doesn't collapse. They don't have the courage to let the truth in if it is unsightly and uncomfortable, and in order to keep it out, they agree to be a laughingstock, to be disgusted. They will agree to anything - even to kill those who disturb their peace, if only they are given a gun.
They are weaklings, kissed by their loving grandmothers on their chubby bottoms, who deep down are piously sure of their exceptionalism, and who should really be thrown into a labor barracks for a couple of months, just so that they have a chance to grow something remotely resembling balls.

 

[sartre play]

Capitalism run amok, crony capitalism, corporations run by humans who do not know right from wrong, has given us what we have.

Understand I'm not arguing against capitalism, I'm not arguing for socialism or communism, I'm merely pointing out what Adam Smith noted several centuries ago, without a moral and ethical society, open market capitalism will not function properly.

Another factor in the homelessness we see is the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

We don't have much actual Communism USA ( unless you count so called head of households getting to make the rules about everything. )
Socialism not a huge amount of that either. People join together to create collectives with out bosses. hard to create equality, can be and has been done. Capitalism is a great thing IF its built to make the owners & major investors gain wealth AND also improve OUR society.
Ever hear of MARTIN SHKRELI ? This is where I (Opinion) think Capitalisms has been going, and now is out of control as our political leaders have joined the gravy train.

 

[Ringo]

Sooner or later, but this feast of parasitism, in which the bourgeoisie with impunity are squaring peoples, spilling rivers of blood, will come to an end and the further this parasite drags on, the greater the price humanity will pay for its elimination.

 

[elektra]

A sad debate

If only we could see a world with no capitalism and compare that world to this world.

We can, look at Africa, Mexico, all of Central America, all of South America. Look at Russia.

Look at Arab controlled parts of Israel

Look at the Ukraine

So many examples of no capitalism completely ignored by the socialists.

 

[pknopp]

A sad debate

If only we could see a world with no capitalism and compare that world to this world.

We can, look at Africa, Mexico, all of Central America, all of South America. Look at Russia.

Look at Arab controlled parts of Israel

Look at the Ukraine

So many examples of no capitalism completely ignored by the socialists.

No country actually practices Capitalism.

 

[JoeB131]

No country actually practices Capitalism.

Or Socialism.

They end up practicing something in between. Just enough social welfare to keep the masses mollified.

 

[elektra]

No country actually practices Capitalism.

No country practices socialism

 

[pknopp]

No country practices socialism

As noted so why are we constantly arguing it?