Capital gains & income averaging.

[JonKoch]

...less convinced that there is any reason to tax labor income at higher rates than capital gains...

Depends on what your goal is. If you want money going into the treasury then you tax each as much as you can until revenue drops. You can get away with a higher rate on labor. Obama acknowlegded this back during the primaries (from here):

GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.

So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?

OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.

Then again, if the goal is simply revenge against cap. gains receivers, then taxing doesn't make as much sense as say, revolution and mass executions.

You meant they asked a false premise and he answered inaccurately right?



The premise must be at what rate is CG taxes not bring in more revenues.


CBO says for the top 1% it's between 31%-34%

"The implied revenue-maximizing flat-rate tax of between 31 percent and 34 percent is within the sample range of tax rates for the top 1 percent."

"For the bottom 99 percent, the estimates are much less precise. In all four equations, the tax rate effect is negative, but it is not significantly different from either zero or the estimated effect for the top 1 percent."

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/84xx/doc8449/88-cbo-007.pdf

The Tax Break-Down: Preferential Rates on Capital Gains

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Whoa, let's stick to the real world: rate hikes cut revenue. We've ample supporting data plus a consensus including Obama himself that agrees. We don't have to suppose anything because we've got to know rate cuts increase revenue and that rate hikes are nothing more than misguided expensive wasteful acts of crude vengeance.

ToddsterPatriot & ExPat_Panama, general discussion of increased “asking” prices:

Supply side proponents often declare increasing prices will reduce sales to the extent that graphing the asking vs. sales volumes creates essentially straight lines. When considering specifics, there can be multiple possible factors. Their inter relationships and the lines drawn are often much more curved rather than straight line functions.

The extent of elasticity with regard to effective demand or feasible supply comes immediately to mind. These two factors are often if not generally affected by other variables; they do not act simply in the same manner upon all applications. Then there’s the factor of alternatives; necessity and/or human ingenuity at work.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Your contention is that eliminating the tax reduction granted to LTCG incomes will reduce what?
The favoring tax reduction for a particular characteristic of income is justified how? All other incomes are less worthy because?

To the extent that we encourage only the sale of entire or partial enterprise shares, we are discouraging continuous reinvesting and nurturing of existing enterprises. You advocate government intervention and have no regard for the open markets’ decisions? Why are you a proponent of government rather than a market driven economy?

I appreciate the Romney strategy; having insufficiently logical response, he labels the criticism as class warfare due to envy.

Respectfully, Supposn

Your contention is that eliminating the tax reduction granted to LTCG incomes will reduce what?

Government revenues and economic growth.

The favoring tax reduction for a particular characteristic of income is justified how?

Economic growth is good.

All other incomes are less worthy because?

Reality.

STUDY: These Charts Show There's Almost No Correlation Between Tax Rates and GDP
STUDY: These Charts Show There's Almost No Correlation Between Tax Rates and GDP


Capital Gains Tax Rates and Economic Growth (or not)

If you read the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal (or surf around the nether regions of Forbes.com), you may come to the conclusion that no aspect of tax policy is more important for economic growth than the way we tax capital gains. You’d be wrong

Capital Gains Tax Rates and Economic Growth (or not)

Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory

The conclusion?

Lowering the tax rates on the wealthy and top earners in America do not appear to have any impact on the nation’s economic growth.

This paragraph from the report says it all—

“The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment and productivity growth. The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie. However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution.”

Non-Partisan Congressional Tax Report Debunks Core Conservative Economic Theory-GOP Suppresses Study

STUDY: These Charts Show There's Almost No Correlation Between Tax Rates and GDP

That's awful!

So why did Obama cut taxes?

 

[The Derp]

So why did Obama cut taxes?

He cut payroll taxes temporarily to stimulate the economy. They weren't a long-term solution.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So why did Obama cut taxes?

He cut payroll taxes temporarily to stimulate the economy. They weren't a long-term solution.

He cut taxes to stimulate the economy? You said tax cuts don't help the economy.

 

[The Derp]

He cut taxes to stimulate the economy? You said tax cuts don't help the economy.

They don't. I was opposed to cutting payroll taxes. They didn't help much, if at all. They were a mistake. I'm man enough to admit that, but you're not man enough to admit your entire premise is wrong.

 

[danielpalos]

we cannot, cut taxes to zero, and not become a, Mogadishu.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

He cut taxes to stimulate the economy? You said tax cuts don't help the economy.

They don't. I was opposed to cutting payroll taxes. They didn't help much, if at all. They were a mistake. I'm man enough to admit that, but you're not man enough to admit your entire premise is wrong.

They don't. I was opposed to cutting payroll taxes.

He cut more than payroll taxes. Are you saying you're smarter than Obama?

 

[danielpalos]

End work tax for Labor.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

End work tax for Labor.

You don't pay income tax, why do you care?

 

[danielpalos]

End work tax for Labor.

You don't pay income tax, why do you care?

It is one solution to help the poor, want to work.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

End work tax for Labor.

You don't pay income tax, why do you care?

It is one solution to help the poor, want to work.

Cutting your tax rate makes you want to work?
Don't tell the Derp.

 

[danielpalos]

End work tax for Labor.

You don't pay income tax, why do you care?

It is one solution to help the poor, want to work.

Cutting your tax rate makes you want to work?
Don't tell the Derp.

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually. it reinforces that, "gratification".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

End work tax for Labor.

You don't pay income tax, why do you care?

It is one solution to help the poor, want to work.

Cutting your tax rate makes you want to work?
Don't tell the Derp.

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually. it reinforces that, "gratification".

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually.

So what?

 

[danielpalos]

End work tax for Labor.

You don't pay income tax, why do you care?

It is one solution to help the poor, want to work.

Cutting your tax rate makes you want to work?
Don't tell the Derp.

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually. it reinforces that, "gratification".

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually.

So what?

It creates a positive multiplier effect in that local economy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You don't pay income tax, why do you care?

It is one solution to help the poor, want to work.

Cutting your tax rate makes you want to work?
Don't tell the Derp.

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually. it reinforces that, "gratification".

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually.

So what?

It creates a positive multiplier effect in that local economy.

If I give a poor person $20, what's the multiplier?

 

[danielpalos]

It is one solution to help the poor, want to work.

Cutting your tax rate makes you want to work?
Don't tell the Derp.

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually. it reinforces that, "gratification".

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually.

So what?

It creates a positive multiplier effect in that local economy.

If I give a poor person $20, what's the multiplier?

Just one poor person? Now you know why private charity can Never solve simple poverty or create much of a positive multiplier effect.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Cutting your tax rate makes you want to work?
Don't tell the Derp.

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually. it reinforces that, "gratification".

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually.

So what?

It creates a positive multiplier effect in that local economy.

If I give a poor person $20, what's the multiplier?

Just one poor person? Now you know why private charity can Never solve simple poverty or create much of a positive multiplier effect.

Are the numbers too large for you to explain the multiplier?

 

[danielpalos]

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually. it reinforces that, "gratification".

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually.

So what?

It creates a positive multiplier effect in that local economy.

If I give a poor person $20, what's the multiplier?

Just one poor person? Now you know why private charity can Never solve simple poverty or create much of a positive multiplier effect.

Are the numbers too large for you to explain the multiplier?

it works with the law of large numbers.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

the poor spend most of their money, immediately, usually.

So what?

It creates a positive multiplier effect in that local economy.

If I give a poor person $20, what's the multiplier?

Just one poor person? Now you know why private charity can Never solve simple poverty or create much of a positive multiplier effect.

Are the numbers too large for you to explain the multiplier?

it works with the law of large numbers.

Great. What's the multiplier?

 

[danielpalos]

It creates a positive multiplier effect in that local economy.

If I give a poor person $20, what's the multiplier?

Just one poor person? Now you know why private charity can Never solve simple poverty or create much of a positive multiplier effect.

Are the numbers too large for you to explain the multiplier?

it works with the law of large numbers.

Great. What's the multiplier?

It depends on the amount and the people circulating that capital. Unemployment compensation, produces a positive multiplier.