Can there really be a two state solution?

[aris2chat]

Either a three state solution, which would be more sensible, or have Gaza incorporated into Egypt and the West Bank into Jordan which would make the most sense of all. .

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

Ah...ok. You've never stated that before however others have clearly stated that the Palestinians need to be expelled so yes, I assumed you would follow that idea as well.

So you propose a one-state solution...would the Israeli's then have to give up all violence towards their new Palestinian co-citizens as well? How would you get both sides, with a long history of extreme distrust and hate, to live together in one state? How would you handle the huge demographic change? How would you convince the Jews that they would be safe in a state where they no longer held a majority?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

No, they weren't. Where the hell did you read that?

Here are two. There are more.

Palestinian legislative election 2006 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

BBC NEWS Middle East Hamas sweeps to election victory

 

[toastman]

Are you being serious? You're going to make me read the whole article? I always quote the part of the article that I post to back up my claim, I expect you to do the same.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Are you being serious? You're going to make me read the whole article? I always quote the part of the article that I post to back up my claim, I expect you to do the same.

You asked a question and I answered it.

What's the beef?

 

[toastman]

Are you being serious? You're going to make me read the whole article? I always quote the part of the article that I post to back up my claim, I expect you to do the same.

You asked a question and I answered it.

What's the beef?

You didn't answer the question. You posted two articles.

 

[aris2chat]

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

Ah...ok. You've never stated that before however others have clearly stated that the Palestinians need to be expelled so yes, I assumed you would follow that idea as well.

So you propose a one-state solution...would the Israeli's then have to give up all violence towards their new Palestinian co-citizens as well? How would you get both sides, with a long history of extreme distrust and hate, to live together in one state? How would you handle the huge demographic change? How would you convince the Jews that they would be safe in a state where they no longer held a majority?

My reply got stuck in the middle?? Lets try this again.

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

 

[theliq]

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

Ah...ok. You've never stated that before however others have clearly stated that the Palestinians need to be expelled so yes, I assumed you would follow that idea as well.

So you propose a one-state solution...would the Israeli's then have to give up all violence towards their new Palestinian co-citizens as well? How would you get both sides, with a long history of extreme distrust and hate, to live together in one state? How would you handle the huge demographic change? How would you convince the Jews that they would be safe in a state where they no longer held a majority?

My reply got stuck in the middle?? Lets try this again.

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

NO,give the Palestinians back their occupied lands ...re-1967...then bring in the UN to oversee the partition say for a minimum of 5 years ......this is the true and only way for a real two state solution..........you will find Palestine will prosper,with a peaceful solution....the real problem is Israel....and you all fcuking know it......so all stop talking shit and obey the Gospel according to St liq..................

 

[Phoenall]

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

Which they did as the evidence of even your links show. They murdered many fatah/plo members, supporters and specially their children. Winning the election was only the start of the palestinians problems, the enforcement of strict islamic sharia laws on a populace that had been free and secular caused much bloodshed and murders. This is still ongoing to this day

 

[Phoenall]

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

So why use force to claim what was theirs by right, or was the force just a reason to show the people that a new top dog was in town.

 

[Daniyel]

Assuming two state solution is somehow possible we would need two things to make that happen first.
1.Defining each state - 50% stucked.
2.Defining the conditions to each state - 100% stucked.

 

[Phoenall]

Either a three state solution, which would be more sensible, or have Gaza incorporated into Egypt and the West Bank into Jordan which would make the most sense of all. .

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

Ah...ok. You've never stated that before however others have clearly stated that the Palestinians need to be expelled so yes, I assumed you would follow that idea as well.

So you propose a one-state solution...would the Israeli's then have to give up all violence towards their new Palestinian co-citizens as well? How would you get both sides, with a long history of extreme distrust and hate, to live together in one state? How would you handle the huge demographic change? How would you convince the Jews that they would be safe in a state where they no longer held a majority?

By enforcing the UN charter, UN resolutions and International Law in respect of who would be allowed to stay as Israeli citizens and who would be relocated. Read the UN resolutions in regard to the palestinians right of return ( not legally binding by the way, a purely voluntary action ) This says that the returning palestinians have to give up all acts of violence, belligerence and terrorism signed on oath before being allowed as Israeli citizens. And subsequent breach ot this oath nullifies the palestinians Israeli citizenship and renders them and their family liable to instant deprotation and loss of all rights. These are the words of International Law and not Israel. There would be no large demographic change as the vast majority of palestinians would refuse the terms out of hand and so would be relocated with a package to ease the hardship. The palestinians themselves would make the distinction and they would decide which person's went and which stayed.

 

[Phoenall]

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

Ah...ok. You've never stated that before however others have clearly stated that the Palestinians need to be expelled so yes, I assumed you would follow that idea as well.

So you propose a one-state solution...would the Israeli's then have to give up all violence towards their new Palestinian co-citizens as well? How would you get both sides, with a long history of extreme distrust and hate, to live together in one state? How would you handle the huge demographic change? How would you convince the Jews that they would be safe in a state where they no longer held a majority?

My reply got stuck in the middle?? Lets try this again.

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

NO,give the Palestinians back their occupied lands ...re-1967...then bring in the UN to oversee the partition say for a minimum of 5 years ......this is the true and only way for a real two state solution..........you will find Palestine will prosper,with a peaceful solution....the real problem is Israel....and you all fcuking know it......so all stop talking shit and obey the Gospel according to St liq..................

They had no lands pre 1948, and they still had no lands pre 1967. How about you give the Jews back their lands stolen since 1948 in the whole of the M.E., or do a swap with the palestinians on a two for one basis . So for every acre/hectare of the west bank and gaza the Jews will withdraw their claims to two acres/hectares stolen since 1948 which will then revert to palestinina ownership. Once the west bank and gaza have all been turned into Israel then the Jews will accept compensation backdated to May 1948 for the remainder of their stolen land from the arab nations involved.

Your way would see that palestine as now would fester and become a desert, with the people heavily reliant on overseas aid to exist in poverty. The P.A. would still be paying out "pensions" to the terrorists rather than building up the country and would still be attacking Isreal and complaining when Israel retaliated.

 

[Billo_Really]

There's only one solution, for Israel to comply with international law. End the occupation, end the blockade and stop exporting Israeli terrorism to its neighboring states.

After that, Palestinian's seeking a sovereign nation of their own, is none of Israel's fucking business! Israel does not decide how other nations should live.

If Israel does not do this, then all Israeli assets in foreign banks should be frozen. All trade to Israel should be stopped. And binding sanctions against Israel in the UNSC should be implemented.

 

[aris2chat]

There's only one solution, for Israel to comply with international law. End the occupation, end the blockade and stop exporting Israeli terrorism to its neighboring states.

After that, Palestinian's seeking a sovereign nation of their own, is none of Israel's fucking business! Israel does not decide how other nations should live.

If Israel does not do this, then all Israeli assets in foreign banks should be frozen. All trade to Israel should be stopped. And binding sanctions against Israel in the UNSC should be implemented.

Israel is not a signator and palestinian authority is only an observer.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

So why use force to claim what was theirs by right, or was the force just a reason to show the people that a new top dog was in town.

 

[Phoenall]

There's only one solution, for Israel to comply with international law. End the occupation, end the blockade and stop exporting Israeli terrorism to its neighboring states.

After that, Palestinian's seeking a sovereign nation of their own, is none of Israel's fucking business! Israel does not decide how other nations should live.

If Israel does not do this, then all Israeli assets in foreign banks should be frozen. All trade to Israel should be stopped. And binding sanctions against Israel in the UNSC should be implemented.

So how about the palestinians complying with International law then as well, stopping all terrorism, violence, war crimnes and crimes against humanity.
Strange how the palestinians already have a sovereing nation of their own created in 1988, and Israel welcomed its formation. Just as they welcomed their first government and assisted in its formation.
And impose sanctions on the palestinians as well, no trade no aid nothing until the peace talks and mutual borders are agreed.

You do realise that imposing sanctions on Israel would mean the collapse of the US as banks folded and hospitals cancelled even minor operations. Or would you round up all the Jews in the US and put them in death camps after stealing all their possesions like you fellow Nazi's did in the 1930's

 

[Phoenall]

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

So why use force to claim what was theirs by right, or was the force just a reason to show the people that a new top dog was in town.

So once again if they were the elected government of all palestine why use violence to gain power ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

So why use force to claim what was theirs by right, or was the force just a reason to show the people that a new top dog was in town.

So once again if they were the elected government of all palestine why use violence to gain power ?

You missed the point of that video. Here is one with more detail.

 

[Phoenall]

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

So why use force to claim what was theirs by right, or was the force just a reason to show the people that a new top dog was in town.

So once again if they were the elected government of all palestine why use violence to gain power ?

You missed the point of that video. Here is one with more detail.

Wrong as I said why did they resort to violence when they were the legally elected government, what dont you understand about what hamas did within hours of winning the election. You must have seen the reports of children being mass murdered by hamas thugs. WHY ! ! ! when they were the elected government.

 

[Coyote]

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

Ah...ok. You've never stated that before however others have clearly stated that the Palestinians need to be expelled so yes, I assumed you would follow that idea as well.

So you propose a one-state solution...would the Israeli's then have to give up all violence towards their new Palestinian co-citizens as well? How would you get both sides, with a long history of extreme distrust and hate, to live together in one state? How would you handle the huge demographic change? How would you convince the Jews that they would be safe in a state where they no longer held a majority?

My reply got stuck in the middle?? Lets try this again.

Israel would expel terrorists and those who attack the state. Those who want to be Israelis and serve the nation of Israel would have no reason to be removed. Palestinians that fight Israel from inside or out and cannot accept Israel's right to exist are the threat not the people in general.
Refugees that were not born in what is today Israel do not have a right to demand return and should be settled by the arab states.


But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

Why? They are currently living in Gaza and the West Bank - so you are saying they wouldn't even have a right to citizenship and would be expelled against their will so Israel can take their property...or am I misunderstanding you?