Can there really be a two state solution?

[Phoenall]

Without a two-state solution, what is there?

Either a three state solution, which would be more sensible, or have Gaza incorporated into Egypt and the West Bank into Jordan which would make the most sense of all. .

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

 

[Phoenall]

Without a two-state solution, what is there?

Genocide of the Jews and destruction of the world.

Exagerate much?

Read any of the palestinian charters and you see that as the outcome if they get enough weapons.

 

[Phoenall]

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

Yes. The clans in Gaza are different than the clans in the west bank, and it would be difficult enough from an administrative standpoint to form a non-continuous country even if blood ties didn't play such an important aspect of the culture -- nearly impossible with.

As to Jordan and Egypt, since Jordan IS the state established to give Arabs 78% of Palestine and Gaza has been part of Egypt before, what's the big deal? It's not as if we are talking about any sort of distinct ethnic group here, or anything. They didn't even start referring to themselves as "Palestinian" until Arafat started demanding they do, so it's not as if they are a legitimate cultural group that deserves a state based upon a long history of being a people. Do you argue that West Virginians deserve a country of their own simply on the basis that they start calling themselves West Virginians rather than Americans? These "Palestinians" are less different from their fellow Arabs in Egypt or Jordan than West Virginians are from Californians or New Yorkers.

Why do you post that propaganda. Trans-Jordan was never part of Palestine as confirmed by reports of the Mandatory including the 1922 Report where it states clearly that:

"REPORT ON PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION

1922.

PALESTINE.

REPORT ON
PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.

"The Order in Council also contains a provision that it shall not apply to the Transjordan territory."



- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922


Another Zionist lie you propagate about the Palestinians not existing before Arafat. The Palestinians were considered Palestinians before there was any mention of Israelis, the Jews were simply known as Zionists.

As confirmed by the letters written by the Palestinian Delegation to the British as early as 1922.

PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: -
​

".........We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—

• 
  
  (a) In the preamble to the Palestine Order in Council "the declaration of November 2nd, 1917, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish People" is made a basis for this Order; the People of Palestine cannot accept this Declaration as a basis for discussion."

- See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922

​

YEP the MANDATE FOR PALESTINE herinafter called palestine. It was not a country and the arab muslims refused to accept it as such. Yet they were willing to accept 78% of the original land designated for the Jewish national home. So how about we go back to the status quo and start again with the 4 mandates only this time stick to the original plans and relocate the arab muslims to the land designated for them as accepted by the LoN.

​

​

 

[Phoenall]

funny, is the reality of intent of driving jews out as entertaining as my "fantasy"? heh

That is no more an acceptable solution than ethnically cleansing the Palestinians. Do you support ethnic cleansing? (not that I expect a straight answer from you).

I support the original LoN suggestions that were finalised in 1922, they would have given the arab muslims pause for thought.

 

[Coyote]

funny, is the reality of intent of driving jews out as entertaining as my "fantasy"? heh

That is no more an acceptable solution than ethnically cleansing the Palestinians.

Why, but it is perfectly acceptable! Jews, being the politically incorrect community, "must" abandon the eastern Jerusalem, jews "must" abandon judea and samaria, jews "must accept" the "right of return" that will drive jews out, in short, imagined peace and quiet for Europe and others "must" be bought and paid for in jews.

You must be confused. Jews are clearly the "politically correct" community as I'm sure you are aware. Just look at the posts in these boards, they are overwelmingly pro-Jewish/pro-Israeli. So let's stop pretending it's poor little Israel vs the big bad world that wants to eliminate them. That dog don't hunt.

Israel "must accept" the right of return? No. That is not a widely supported position in the international community. Most people realize that would be demographic suicide and that any viable solution to the conflict must recognize Israel's need for security.

East Jeruselum - Israel demands as it's own in entirety cleansed of a substantial portion of it's original inhabitants who are simultaneously attempting to cleanse Jewish incomers from it. Quite a mess. But, of course the "politically correct" folks (like you who pretend Israel is just a misunderstood innocent in this) claim it belongs entirely to Israel. It may end up that way but it is by no means settled nor "rightfully" Israel's.

As far as the Jews abandoning areas that aren't rightfully theirs - what's wrong with that? Seriously - they are acting like Russia barging around in the Ukraine and annexing territories under false pretenses then proclaiming themselves to be the victims. The settlements are illegal and those territories do not (yet) belong to Israel. And what's the solution? Remove all the Palestinians.

I see very few here calling for the removal of the Jews but plenty calling for the removal of the Palestinians.

Why?! I'm not a democrat and racist, or a drive-by Goody-Twoshoes from some NGO, or a USMB hypocrite, etc..

There is a term for this...oh yes - Drivel. You offer nothing to the table.

 

[Coyote]

Without a two-state solution, what is there?

Either a three state solution, which would be more sensible, or have Gaza incorporated into Egypt and the West Bank into Jordan which would make the most sense of all. .

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

 

[Coyote]

funny, is the reality of intent of driving jews out as entertaining as my "fantasy"? heh

That is no more an acceptable solution than ethnically cleansing the Palestinians. Do you support ethnic cleansing? (not that I expect a straight answer from you).

I support the original LoN suggestions that were finalised in 1922, they would have given the arab muslims pause for thought.

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

 

[Coyote]

Without a two-state solution, what is there?

Genocide of the Jews and destruction of the world.

Exagerate much?

Read any of the palestinian charters and you see that as the outcome if they get enough weapons.

You really are a liar. Destruction of the world? Seriously?

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

 

[Coyote]

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

 

[Phoenall]

Without a two-state solution, what is there?

Either a three state solution, which would be more sensible, or have Gaza incorporated into Egypt and the West Bank into Jordan which would make the most sense of all. .

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

 

[Phoenall]

funny, is the reality of intent of driving jews out as entertaining as my "fantasy"? heh

That is no more an acceptable solution than ethnically cleansing the Palestinians. Do you support ethnic cleansing? (not that I expect a straight answer from you).

I support the original LoN suggestions that were finalised in 1922, they would have given the arab muslims pause for thought.

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Well you do when it comes to the Jews

 

[Phoenall]

Without a two-state solution, what is there?

Genocide of the Jews and destruction of the world.

Exagerate much?

Read any of the palestinian charters and you see that as the outcome if they get enough weapons.

You really are a liar. Destruction of the world? Seriously?

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

Read the koran and see what it says

 

[aris2chat]

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

 

[toastman]

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Genocide? Hamas' charter is questionable and might support that. The others? Read them more carefully - we've been through this before.

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

 

[toastman]

MIGHT support it?

It promises to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, for crying out loud.

Agree. That's why I say might support it. But there are also other ways of interpreting the charter rather than literally. Either way, I do not support Hamas as they do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You call Phoenall a liar while devoting tends of thousands of posting to doing just that.

Yes I do. He clearly lied. The other charters do not call for genocide. And Palestinians wanting to "destroy the world"? Seriously?

If I have lied - post a link to it.

Even in '06 Hamas was not willing to recognized Israel's right to exist even though it changed the wording of the charter to soften it before the elections.

Then Hamas illegally and forcibly took control of gaza and set up it's own mini state with Islamic laws, killing or throwing out PLO members from gaza.

Where did you get that crap? (Link?) Hamas won the elections.

They did win the elections, but:

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few examples of what Hamas did following the elections.

,,,which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip...

Indeed, and Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority. They were the head of the Palestinian Authority.

No, they weren't. Where the hell did you read that?

 

[toastman]

Oh, and nice deflection

 

[Coyote]

Without a two-state solution, what is there?

Either a three state solution, which would be more sensible, or have Gaza incorporated into Egypt and the West Bank into Jordan which would make the most sense of all. .

Three states being Gaza, West Bank and Israel? I could see either of those as possible but not probable because neither Egypt nor Jordan want to take the Palestinian issue on.

But they will have to sooner or later, so why not get it over with now. Make them an offer they cant refuse and implement it, say annexation of gaza by Egypt and the west bank by Jordan and then to hand the land to Israel as a gift.

You are talking about forceably expelling millions of people just so the Israel can take their property? What's the difference between that and Germany's initial actions towards the Jews (before they decided murdering them would be more convenient) - rounding them up and expelling them to other nations (and taking their property). Of course, no one would take them so the next step was extermination, starvation, and other well documented atrocities.

Displacing that many people would wreak havoc in a region that is already suffering under a massive load of refugees, displaced people, instability and deprivation. All this so Israel can take over the land and not have to deal with the residents.

No the residents can stay and become full Isreali citizens as long as they give up all violence, or they can relocate to another country. There is no forced expulsions at all, you just slipped that in because you think that is what I said

Ah...ok. You've never stated that before however others have clearly stated that the Palestinians need to be expelled so yes, I assumed you would follow that idea as well.

So you propose a one-state solution...would the Israeli's then have to give up all violence towards their new Palestinian co-citizens as well? How would you get both sides, with a long history of extreme distrust and hate, to live together in one state? How would you handle the huge demographic change? How would you convince the Jews that they would be safe in a state where they no longer held a majority?