Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you might be confused.

But sovereignty has very little to do with the Kind of Government; and more to do with the entity that exercises authority over a group of people that are collectively united.

What if that government was imposed by force with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people?

(COMMENT)

Makes no difference if the majority approves or not. There is a list of "Countries Ruled by Dictatorship." They are all sovereign. Whether the people want it or not, sovereignty is held by Kim Jong-Il in North Korea every bit as much as the Grand Ayatollah, Commander-in-Chief of Iran and Supreme Leader, Sayyed Ali Khamenei. Make no mistake, they are both sovereign nations.

​

But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.

(COMMENT)

Customary and International law generally recognizes only two competing theories of state recognition, with the “declaratory” view most often seen and is a very near opposite to the more favored “constitutive” view.
The Circumscription of the Sovereign State: Theory and Practice

• The declaratory theory looks to the purported state’s assertion of its sovereignty within the territory it exclusively controls to determine if it can access the international plane.

• The constitutive theory in that it holds that recognition is almost irrelevant because states have little to no discretion in determining whether an entity constitutes a state.
​

It looks like to me that you are describing a new kind of "sovereignty" called "true sovereignty." I have seen people that are locked onto the idea that single forms of government:

• powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people (Chapter 11: Sovereignty)
​

But this is generally true only (with trepidation I say this) in case of a "Democracy, a Republic, and in governments that incorporate the theory by Constitution." In about a quarter of the world, the sovereignty is held by the "Executive" or in some cases by the "Royal Court." As a Regional example being released from under the Mandate" "On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan:"

TREATY OF ALLIANCE BETWEEN HIS MAJESTY IN RESPECT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND HIS HIGHNESS THE AMIR OF TRANSJORDAN. London, 22nd March, 1946

His Majesty The King of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India , and His Highness The Ainir of Trans-Jordan;
ARTICLE 1.
His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof. There shall be perpetual peace and friendship between His Majesty The King and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan.
​

Here we see an example in fact, and still valid today. where the Mandatory extends recognition that the Emir is the "sovereign of Trans-Jordan."

Most Respectfully,
R

Thanks for the link.

Rousseau, far different from Bodin or Hobbes, saw the collective people within a state as the sovereign, ruling through their general will. In constitutional government, it is the people ruling through a body of law that is sovereign. That is the version that commands legitimacy most commonly in the world today.​

That is similar to my previous post that you have not refuted.

The error you make is using a cut and paste snippet, out of context, and imagining it serves to bolster an argument.

As it applies to your invention of Pal'istan, you need reminding that this invented place was not a state and there was no form of representative government that ruled through their (the people / people's) general will.

Secondly, the "version" you ascribe to obviously complicates the notion of sovereignty as applied to the two competing Pal'istans (hamas'istan and fatah'istan). "Collective people within a state as the sovereign, ruling through their general will", is a bit of a stretch with regard to the Arab-Moslem terrorist dictatorships of Hamas and Fatah. There are practical matters to consider when attempting to add the label "state" to either Gaza or the West Bank and even far greater unresolved issues when attempting to apply the "... ruling through their general will", label.

Terms such as democracy, representative governments and the governed 'ruling through their general will tend to lose association to their intrinsic meaning when applied to armed Islamic terrorist encampments. It's difficult to make a case for a population ruling through their collective will when that populace has no voice in representative elections.

When was it that the Arabs-Moslems in either Gaza'istan or Fatah'istan were allowed by the ruling dictators to vote in elections?

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

And the Jews were palestinian people weren't they, or are you going to deny them this right as well. While you ignore the fact that the Jews were palestinians and had the advantage of the LoN international law granting them land you will fall on your face. Also while you ignore the outside influence brought to bear on the arab muslims by hamas and fatah you will never see the reality. Now the arab muslims already have national independence and sovereignty in Jordan, and blew it by attempting a take over, the same in Lebanon which saw many massacred by the ones they illtreated

 

[Eloy]

It is unreasonable to expect a normal functioning democracy while Palestine is divided and under occupation. About 6 million Polish citizens died between 1939 and 1945 as a result of the Nazi occupation, half of whom were Polish Jews. Overall, during German occupation Polish territory, 1939–1945, the Germans murdered 5,470,000–5,670,000 Poles, including nearly 3,000,000 Jews. There were no elections in Poland during this time.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

Your invention of this mythical Pal'istan is really remarkable. It is likely useless at this point to remind you that the magical place you have invented was, in reality, a geographic area. I hesitate to use the term "in reality" because you have invented an entire worldview around a place that "in reality", never had an inception.

To say the there was no Palestine and there were no Palestinians is an Israeli propaganda campaign and there is no evidence to support that claim.

You're a bit befuddled, here. Your invention of some mythical Pal'istan as an autonomous, functioning nation-state is the invented Pal'istan of your vivid imagination.

The geographic area called Pal'istan was nothing like the fantasy world you have created around it.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

By other arab muslims that are using it as a spring board to attack the Jews. Remember that the international laws that set up the arab muslim nations also set up the Jewish nation and the same applies to the Jews as it applies to the arab muslims. Time to look at the real truth and see that the palestinians are just illegal immigrants doing what arab muslims do best and trying to steal land

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

Your invention of this mythical Pal'istan is really remarkable. It is likely useless at this point to remind you that the magical place you have invented was, in reality, a geographic area. I hesitate to use the term "in reality" because you have invented an entire worldview around a place that "in reality", never had an inception.

To say the there was no Palestine and there were no Palestinians is an Israeli propaganda campaign and there is no evidence to support that claim.

BULLSHIT

Where is the treaty setting up the nation of palestine prior to 1988 then. Who signed to accept sovereignty of the nation and breach many International laws and International treaties in the process. There was never a nation of palestine in recorded history, and no amount of LIES, MANIPULATIONS and CHERRY PICKING will ever produced one. If there was any evidence of a nation of palestine existing prior to 1988 the UN would have forced the Jews to move away from Israel and hand it to the arab muslims.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

Your invention of this mythical Pal'istan is really remarkable. It is likely useless at this point to remind you that the magical place you have invented was, in reality, a geographic area. I hesitate to use the term "in reality" because you have invented an entire worldview around a place that "in reality", never had an inception.

To say the there was no Palestine and there were no Palestinians is an Israeli propaganda campaign and there is no evidence to support that claim.

BULLSHIT

Where is the treaty setting up the nation of palestine prior to 1988 then. Who signed to accept sovereignty of the nation and breach many International laws and International treaties in the process. There was never a nation of palestine in recorded history, and no amount of LIES, MANIPULATIONS and CHERRY PICKING will ever produced one. If there was any evidence of a nation of palestine existing prior to 1988 the UN would have forced the Jews to move away from Israel and hand it to the arab muslims.

Who signed to accept sovereignty of the nation and breach many International laws and International treaties in the process.​

So many Israeli talking points without any proof.

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

By other arab muslims that are using it as a spring board to attack the Jews. Remember that the international laws that set up the arab muslim nations also set up the Jewish nation and the same applies to the Jews as it applies to the arab muslims. Time to look at the real truth and see that the palestinians are just illegal immigrants doing what arab muslims do best and trying to steal land

Time to look at the real truth and see that the palestinians are just illegal immigrants doing what arab muslims do best and trying to steal land​

Link?

 

[Phoenall]

SAYIT, et al,

This is very applicable to the "Question of Palestine." Certainly nothing about the range of possible answers is a given.

Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

• it illustrates the failure of Palestinians to establish an electoral democracy and a genuinely functional state.
• Fatah correctly sees cooperation with Israel and the international community as the path to an independent state.
• Hamas sees the destruction of Israel as the only solution.
​

(COMMENT)

There are some huge chunks of considerations that need to be addressed.

• The "knowledge, skills, and abilities," (KSAs) to actually form a collection of personnel that can handle the functions of government.

∆ The knowledge being the experience or education in practical understanding of a governance.
∆ The skills in the performance of specific tasks that render a desired results --- within a given amount of time, energy, and fiscal limitations.
∆ The abilities the varied physical capacities and the essential materials to necessary to assemble a functioning entity.
​

• A citizenry that actually "wants" to exert the effort to assemble a self-governing, autonomous nation. Or, one nation (Palestine) with two autonomous Provinces (The West Bank and Gaza Strip); the union these two entities as a single sovereign state.​

If the Palestinians really "wanted" a measure of autonomy, surely they would have been able to demonstrate that sometime during the last 70 years. The fact of the matter is that they have set the political and diplomatic conditions necessary to achieve that goal. The fact that they have not means that either they:

• Do not have the prerequisite KSAs to accomplish the establishment of government.
• Do not have the motivation to establish the government.
• Do not have either KSAs or the motivation to create a functional government.
​

The international community can build a KSA base from which the prerequisites could establish an autonomous government. But it is impossible to inject motivation and leadership when the mindset of the Arab Palestinian is pointed in a hostile direction:

The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians. But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure. The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing. It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.

Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
​

The UN Palestine Commission asked the Arab Delegation for representation in early 1948. Of course the answer was "no."

"You can lead a horse to water --- but you can't make it drink, swim or snorkel."
​

Most Respectfully,
R

BUT YOU CAN LEAD YOUR HORSE TO MURDER,SLAUGHTER,EXILE Palestinians and STEAL THEIR LAND....Yours Comment IS DEBASED Rocco and therefore only SUITABLE FOR THE DUSTBIN.....MORE ZIONIST TRASH asshole

Where is the treaty giving the land to the arab muslims then, should be a simple enough task even for you to produce it to support your claims.


Or are you once again posting just more islamonazi trash and white supremacist lies because this is all you have

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

Your invention of this mythical Pal'istan is really remarkable. It is likely useless at this point to remind you that the magical place you have invented was, in reality, a geographic area. I hesitate to use the term "in reality" because you have invented an entire worldview around a place that "in reality", never had an inception.

Holliie actually the Zionist Shit in Israel have not allowed the Palestinians to build a vibrant and productive nation........the only invention here is Zionism and shitty members of this CRACK POT ORGANIZATION

They had the chance when they were given 78% of palestine called trans Jordan and it is still 50 years behind Israel. It is the arab muslim SHIT that are to blames and they are the CRACK POT ORGANISATIONS just look at hamas and fatah for examples.

 

[Phoenall]

It is unreasonable to expect a normal functioning democracy while Palestine is divided and under occupation. About 6 million Polish citizens died between 1939 and 1945 as a result of the Nazi occupation, half of whom were Polish Jews. Overall, during German occupation Polish territory, 1939–1945, the Germans murdered 5,470,000–5,670,000 Poles, including nearly 3,000,000 Jews. There were no elections in Poland during this time.

What has this to do with the thread, the palestinians have never been stopped from holding elections or building a nation by anyone but themselves. If you lookyou will see that gaza is not occupied under the terms of International law, so apart from the violence, illegal weapons, war crimes and terrorism by the arab muslims what is stopping them from laying down their weapons and building a vibrant nation ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

Your invention of this mythical Pal'istan is really remarkable. It is likely useless at this point to remind you that the magical place you have invented was, in reality, a geographic area. I hesitate to use the term "in reality" because you have invented an entire worldview around a place that "in reality", never had an inception.

To say the there was no Palestine and there were no Palestinians is an Israeli propaganda campaign and there is no evidence to support that claim.

BULLSHIT

Where is the treaty setting up the nation of palestine prior to 1988 then. Who signed to accept sovereignty of the nation and breach many International laws and International treaties in the process. There was never a nation of palestine in recorded history, and no amount of LIES, MANIPULATIONS and CHERRY PICKING will ever produced one. If there was any evidence of a nation of palestine existing prior to 1988 the UN would have forced the Jews to move away from Israel and hand it to the arab muslims.

Who signed to accept sovereignty of the nation and breach many International laws and International treaties in the process.​

So many Israeli talking points without any proof.

Link?

No facts that are in themselves proof that you are LYING. It is the questions that should be asked in the UN to see what answers are given.

IF THERE WAS ANY SUCH TREATY YOU WOULD HAVE POSTED IT AND THE JEWS WOULD BE ON THE ROAD TO OBLIVION. BUT THERE ISNT ONE SO YOU DUCK, DEFLECT, DERAIL AND MAKE FALSE CLAIMS AND THEN ASK ME FOR A LINK TO PROVE YOUR CLAIMS

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is subterfuge.

Guided
by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​

Notice that they said Palestinian people. They did not say government. They did not say state.

(COMMENT)

Absolutely true... Again you are playing games.

(a) The Palestinians have NEVER been denied their right of self-determination. They have exercised it nearly a half-dozen times or more.

(b) The Palestinian People have declared independence (1988); however, the Palestinians never actually achieved territory it exclusively controls; with Area "A" of the West Bank (1995) and the Gaza Strip (2005).
​

The Palestinians exercised the right of self-determination three time by 1923 when it declined participatory positions within the government

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declined to participate in the development in a UNSCOP Recommendations.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to reject A/RES/181(II).

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and voted for Annexation.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they decided to attempt a coup d'état when they attempted to overthrow the Jordanian Monarchy.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they declared independent in 1988.

What the Palestinians have not done is to attempt to build a thriving and productive nation. The The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they constantly chose the use force to attempt to achieve a politically outcome which they could not achieve through peacefully means.

Even today, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to engage in peace talks pursuant to the UN Charter and the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination when they refuse to accept the consequences for their Hostile Actions, Jihadism, Terrorism, insurgencies, rebellion and other asymmetric activity.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

By other arab muslims that are using it as a spring board to attack the Jews. Remember that the international laws that set up the arab muslim nations also set up the Jewish nation and the same applies to the Jews as it applies to the arab muslims. Time to look at the real truth and see that the palestinians are just illegal immigrants doing what arab muslims do best and trying to steal land

Time to look at the real truth and see that the palestinians are just illegal immigrants doing what arab muslims do best and trying to steal land​

Link?

To what a history book, or common knowledge. How much of the land infested by islamonazi's was stolen from its rightful owners. Try the former Yugoslavia or Lebanon as recent stolen lands, and all you have is the propaganda spewed out by islamonazi's claiming they were there first.


Read this and see that you are barking mad

Articles: The Truth about Islamic Crusades and Imperialism

 

[Hollie]

It is unreasonable to expect a normal functioning democracy while Palestine is divided and under occupation. About 6 million Polish citizens died between 1939 and 1945 as a result of the Nazi occupation, half of whom were Polish Jews. Overall, during German occupation Polish territory, 1939–1945, the Germans murdered 5,470,000–5,670,000 Poles, including nearly 3,000,000 Jews. There were no elections in Poland during this time.

I think it's a mistake to propose that any future Arab-Moslem government in either of the Pal'istans will be any different than what exists now (a dictatorship typical of all the other Arab-islamist dictatorships that define the Arab-Moslem Middle East).

All of the freedoms that we in the West have fought for and struggled to maintain, all of our accomplishments in the arena of social justice, so many of the benefits of Western civilization that we take for granted are derived from precepts that are antithetical to Islamism. The secular environments in academia and the workplace of the West, which have facilitated the achievements we've made in the sciences, technology, economics, medicine, the arts, and beyond, are also absent in the moslem world. Any philosophy or ideology which deviates from or contradicts the religion is called bid'ah (innovation). Living under a government run by man's law (democracy) instead of muhammud's (swish) law (sharia) is shirk and thus inimical to Islam. Therefore, the modern Western precepts of human rights, justice, and civil liberties have been denied to Moslems, except in the West, of course.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You have this mixed-up again.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.

• The Arab League advanced across the frontiers into the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
• It was the Arab League that violated the core tenant outlined in Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7)
​

Keeping in mind that we should avoid entangling - 21st Century Doctrine - with - 20th Century Doctrine.

(REFERENCES)

• General Assembly Resolution 36/301 entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States of 9 December 1981
• UN Security Council Resolution 242 of 22 November 1967 (also known as. "land for peace" resolution)
• General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX) entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of their Independence and Sovereignty was adopted on 21 December 1965
• General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) entitled Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, of 14 December 1960
• Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7), UN Charter (1945)
​

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

(COMMENT)

• "Palestine is the poster child of external interference."
Yes, in limited focus groups this may be true; but not everywhere to everyone. Foreign intervention has been around since before Alexander the Great; and will remain a shadowy development in the foreseeable future.

Palestine is just one confrontation that exhibits Fourth Generation Warfare (4GW). Warfare has evolved through four generations:

1) Use of massed manpower: War of line and column tactics, where battles were formal and the battlefield was somewhat orderly.
2) Firepower: Mass firepower, most of which was indirect artillery fire. The goal was attrition.
3) Maneuver: Speed, surprise, and mental (as well as physical) dislocation; seeks to get into the opponents rear area and collapse him from the rear forward: instead of "close with and destroy," (AKA: Seek-out and Destroy the enemy) with the motto: "bypass and collapse."
4) Insurgency, Jihadism, Terrorism, Rebellion, and Resistance that asymmetrically employs all available networks—political, economic, social, military—to convince an opponent’s decision makers that their strategic goals are either unachievable or too costly. (Break their will to continue the armed struggle.)

• ""without external interference.""
The core postulate to this question is (excluding Chapter VII Article 51, Self-Defense) in legal terms, on "non-intervention" as an imperative legal principle of post-WWII Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).

In 1945, the UN Charter was the source of this Customary Law. However, in 1965, the contemporary prohibition was outlined in 2131 (XX) Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of Their Independence and Sovereignty.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, solemnly declares:

1.

No State has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other State. Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or attempted threats against the personality of the State or against its political, economic and cultural elements, are condemned.

2.

No State may use or encourage the use of economic, political or any other type of measures to coerce another State in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign rights or to secure from it advantages of any kind. Also, no State shall organize, assist, foment, Finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the regime of another State, or interfere in civil strife in another State.

3.

The use of force to deprive peoples of their national identity constitutes a violation of their inalienable rights and of the principle of non-intervention.
​

A further key element to the protection of Independence and Sovereignty, was (prior to the 1967 Six-Day War) that it is an imperative need to create appropriate conditions which would enable all States, and in particular the developing countries, to choose without duress or coercion their own political, economic and social institutions. Together with the prohibition that threat to use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel [Article 2(4) of the Charter], the two reach into the 1967 Six-Day War and
are directly applicable to the massing of 100,000 and the demand to withdraw that UN Emergency Force monitoring and buffering the Sinai.

So, while the original conflict, initiated in 1948 by the Arab League was covered under the UN Charter, the subsequence threat and coercion used by the Arab League in 1967 and the 1973 Sneak Attack was additionally covered by UN General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX).

There is no question that of the many Resolutions on the topic of "Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States" Resolution A/RES/36/103 (1981) which is by far the most interesting. It is the one that outlines the response to most contemporary violation of International Law.


Most Respectfully,
R​

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You have this mixed-up again.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.

• The Arab League advanced across the frontiers into the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
• It was the Arab League that violated the core tenant outlined in Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7)
​

Keeping in mind that we should avoid entangling - 21st Century Doctrine - with - 20th Century Doctrine.

(REFERENCES)

• General Assembly Resolution 36/301 entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States of 9 December 1981
• UN Security Council Resolution 242 of 22 November 1967 (also known as. "land for peace" resolution)
• General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX) entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of their Independence and Sovereignty was adopted on 21 December 1965
• General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) entitled Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, of 14 December 1960
• Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7), UN Charter (1945)
​

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

(COMMENT)

• "Palestine is the poster child of external interference."
Yes, in limited focus groups this may be true; but not everywhere to everyone. Foreign intervention has been around since before Alexander the Great; and will remain a shadowy development in the foreseeable future.

Palestine is just one confrontation that exhibits Fourth Generation Warfare (4GW). Warfare has evolved through four generations:

1) Use of massed manpower: War of line and column tactics, where battles were formal and the battlefield was somewhat orderly.
2) Firepower: Mass firepower, most of which was indirect artillery fire. The goal was attrition.
3) Maneuver: Speed, surprise, and mental (as well as physical) dislocation; seeks to get into the opponents rear area and collapse him from the rear forward: instead of "close with and destroy," (AKA: Seek-out and Destroy the enemy) with the motto: "bypass and collapse."
4) Insurgency, Jihadism, Terrorism, Rebellion, and Resistance that asymmetrically employs all available networks—political, economic, social, military—to convince an opponent’s decision makers that their strategic goals are either unachievable or too costly. (Break their will to continue the armed struggle.)

• ""without external interference.""
The core postulate to this question is (excluding Chapter VII Article 51, Self-Defense) in legal terms, on "non-intervention" as an imperative legal principle of post-WWII Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).

In 1945, the UN Charter was the source of this Customary Law. However, in 1965, the contemporary prohibition was outlined in 2131 (XX) Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of Their Independence and Sovereignty.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, solemnly declares:

1.

No State has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other State. Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or attempted threats against the personality of the State or against its political, economic and cultural elements, are condemned.

2.

No State may use or encourage the use of economic, political or any other type of measures to coerce another State in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign rights or to secure from it advantages of any kind. Also, no State shall organize, assist, foment, Finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the regime of another State, or interfere in civil strife in another State.

3.

The use of force to deprive peoples of their national identity constitutes a violation of their inalienable rights and of the principle of non-intervention.
​

A further key element to the protection of Independence and Sovereignty, was (prior to the 1967 Six-Day War) that it is an imperative need to create appropriate conditions which would enable all States, and in particular the developing countries, to choose without duress or coercion their own political, economic and social institutions. Together with the prohibition that threat to use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel [Article 2(4) of the Charter], the two reach into the 1967 Six-Day War and
are directly applicable to the massing of 100,000 and the demand to withdraw that UN Emergency Force monitoring and buffering the Sinai.

So, while the original conflict, initiated in 1948 by the Arab League was covered under the UN Charter, the subsequence threat and coercion used by the Arab League in 1967 and the 1973 Sneak Attack was additionally covered by UN General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX).

There is no question that of the many Resolutions on the topic of "Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States" Resolution A/RES/36/103 (1981) which is by far the most interesting. It is the one that outlines the response to most contemporary violation of International Law.


Most Respectfully,
R​

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.​

You are forgetting that the foreigners declared Israel inside Palestine at the point of a gun.

But you do not think that is external interference along with other violations of Palestinian rights. Rights that the UN has affirmed have been violated.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You have this mixed-up again.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.

• The Arab League advanced across the frontiers into the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
• It was the Arab League that violated the core tenant outlined in Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7)
​

Keeping in mind that we should avoid entangling - 21st Century Doctrine - with - 20th Century Doctrine.

(REFERENCES)

• General Assembly Resolution 36/301 entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States of 9 December 1981
• UN Security Council Resolution 242 of 22 November 1967 (also known as. "land for peace" resolution)
• General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX) entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of their Independence and Sovereignty was adopted on 21 December 1965
• General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) entitled Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, of 14 December 1960
• Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7), UN Charter (1945)
​

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

(COMMENT)

• "Palestine is the poster child of external interference."
Yes, in limited focus groups this may be true; but not everywhere to everyone. Foreign intervention has been around since before Alexander the Great; and will remain a shadowy development in the foreseeable future.

Palestine is just one confrontation that exhibits Fourth Generation Warfare (4GW). Warfare has evolved through four generations:

1) Use of massed manpower: War of line and column tactics, where battles were formal and the battlefield was somewhat orderly.
2) Firepower: Mass firepower, most of which was indirect artillery fire. The goal was attrition.
3) Maneuver: Speed, surprise, and mental (as well as physical) dislocation; seeks to get into the opponents rear area and collapse him from the rear forward: instead of "close with and destroy," (AKA: Seek-out and Destroy the enemy) with the motto: "bypass and collapse."
4) Insurgency, Jihadism, Terrorism, Rebellion, and Resistance that asymmetrically employs all available networks—political, economic, social, military—to convince an opponent’s decision makers that their strategic goals are either unachievable or too costly. (Break their will to continue the armed struggle.)

• ""without external interference.""
The core postulate to this question is (excluding Chapter VII Article 51, Self-Defense) in legal terms, on "non-intervention" as an imperative legal principle of post-WWII Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).

In 1945, the UN Charter was the source of this Customary Law. However, in 1965, the contemporary prohibition was outlined in 2131 (XX) Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of Their Independence and Sovereignty.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, solemnly declares:

1.

No State has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other State. Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or attempted threats against the personality of the State or against its political, economic and cultural elements, are condemned.

2.

No State may use or encourage the use of economic, political or any other type of measures to coerce another State in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign rights or to secure from it advantages of any kind. Also, no State shall organize, assist, foment, Finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the regime of another State, or interfere in civil strife in another State.

3.

The use of force to deprive peoples of their national identity constitutes a violation of their inalienable rights and of the principle of non-intervention.
​

A further key element to the protection of Independence and Sovereignty, was (prior to the 1967 Six-Day War) that it is an imperative need to create appropriate conditions which would enable all States, and in particular the developing countries, to choose without duress or coercion their own political, economic and social institutions. Together with the prohibition that threat to use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel [Article 2(4) of the Charter], the two reach into the 1967 Six-Day War and
are directly applicable to the massing of 100,000 and the demand to withdraw that UN Emergency Force monitoring and buffering the Sinai.

So, while the original conflict, initiated in 1948 by the Arab League was covered under the UN Charter, the subsequence threat and coercion used by the Arab League in 1967 and the 1973 Sneak Attack was additionally covered by UN General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX).

There is no question that of the many Resolutions on the topic of "Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States" Resolution A/RES/36/103 (1981) which is by far the most interesting. It is the one that outlines the response to most contemporary violation of International Law.


Most Respectfully,
R​

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.​

You are forgetting that the foreigners declared Israel inside Palestine at the point of a gun.

But you do not think that is external interference along with other violations of Palestinian rights. Rights that the UN has affirmed have been violated.

NO the Jews who were citizens of palestine took up their rights under international law and declared independence, the arab muslims had been trying to stop this from 1917 at the point of a gun. It was the foriegners of the arab league that tried to declare an islamonazi state on land already in another nations possession.

How about a link then to these rights that the UN has affirmed to have been violated ? It must be from the UN and it must say those exact words ?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You have this mixed-up again.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.

• The Arab League advanced across the frontiers into the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
• It was the Arab League that violated the core tenant outlined in Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7)
​

Keeping in mind that we should avoid entangling - 21st Century Doctrine - with - 20th Century Doctrine.

(REFERENCES)

• General Assembly Resolution 36/301 entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States of 9 December 1981
• UN Security Council Resolution 242 of 22 November 1967 (also known as. "land for peace" resolution)
• General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX) entitled Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of their Independence and Sovereignty was adopted on 21 December 1965
• General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) entitled Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, of 14 December 1960
• Chapter I, Article 2(4) and 2(7), UN Charter (1945)
​

The UN merely states Palestinian rights. It says "without external interference." Palestine is the poster child of external interference. It has been occupied every day since its inception.

(COMMENT)

• "Palestine is the poster child of external interference."
Yes, in limited focus groups this may be true; but not everywhere to everyone. Foreign intervention has been around since before Alexander the Great; and will remain a shadowy development in the foreseeable future.

Palestine is just one confrontation that exhibits Fourth Generation Warfare (4GW). Warfare has evolved through four generations:

1) Use of massed manpower: War of line and column tactics, where battles were formal and the battlefield was somewhat orderly.
2) Firepower: Mass firepower, most of which was indirect artillery fire. The goal was attrition.
3) Maneuver: Speed, surprise, and mental (as well as physical) dislocation; seeks to get into the opponents rear area and collapse him from the rear forward: instead of "close with and destroy," (AKA: Seek-out and Destroy the enemy) with the motto: "bypass and collapse."
4) Insurgency, Jihadism, Terrorism, Rebellion, and Resistance that asymmetrically employs all available networks—political, economic, social, military—to convince an opponent’s decision makers that their strategic goals are either unachievable or too costly. (Break their will to continue the armed struggle.)

• ""without external interference.""
The core postulate to this question is (excluding Chapter VII Article 51, Self-Defense) in legal terms, on "non-intervention" as an imperative legal principle of post-WWII Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).

In 1945, the UN Charter was the source of this Customary Law. However, in 1965, the contemporary prohibition was outlined in 2131 (XX) Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of Their Independence and Sovereignty.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, solemnly declares:

1.

No State has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other State. Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or attempted threats against the personality of the State or against its political, economic and cultural elements, are condemned.

2.

No State may use or encourage the use of economic, political or any other type of measures to coerce another State in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign rights or to secure from it advantages of any kind. Also, no State shall organize, assist, foment, Finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the regime of another State, or interfere in civil strife in another State.

3.

The use of force to deprive peoples of their national identity constitutes a violation of their inalienable rights and of the principle of non-intervention.
​

A further key element to the protection of Independence and Sovereignty, was (prior to the 1967 Six-Day War) that it is an imperative need to create appropriate conditions which would enable all States, and in particular the developing countries, to choose without duress or coercion their own political, economic and social institutions. Together with the prohibition that threat to use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel [Article 2(4) of the Charter], the two reach into the 1967 Six-Day War and
are directly applicable to the massing of 100,000 and the demand to withdraw that UN Emergency Force monitoring and buffering the Sinai.

So, while the original conflict, initiated in 1948 by the Arab League was covered under the UN Charter, the subsequence threat and coercion used by the Arab League in 1967 and the 1973 Sneak Attack was additionally covered by UN General Assembly Resolution 2131 (XX).

There is no question that of the many Resolutions on the topic of "Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States" Resolution A/RES/36/103 (1981) which is by far the most interesting. It is the one that outlines the response to most contemporary violation of International Law.


Most Respectfully,
R​

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.​

You are forgetting that the foreigners declared Israel inside Palestine at the point of a gun.

But you do not think that is external interference along with other violations of Palestinian rights. Rights that the UN has affirmed have been violated.

You are unable to accept that your false premises and skewed perceptions have been addressed multiple times across multiple threads.

The mythical Pal'istan you have invented was not what your imagination has crafted. Pal'istan was the name for a geographic area that was most recently a part of the Ottoman Empire. As it has spelled out for you on many occasions across many threads, the Ottomans relinquished all rights and title to that geographic area.

While you are still suffering from real emotional distress in that your invented "State of Pal'istan" was not what has existed in your imagination, the establishment of the State of Israel as a function of agreements and treaties at the time and the Israeli ability to seek self-determination (which the arabs failed to do) is a matter of history you will have to deal with.

Your online tirades serve no purpose, Bunky.

 

[Eloy]

It is unreasonable to expect a normal functioning democracy while Palestine is divided and under occupation. About 6 million Polish citizens died between 1939 and 1945 as a result of the Nazi occupation, half of whom were Polish Jews. Overall, during German occupation Polish territory, 1939–1945, the Germans murdered 5,470,000–5,670,000 Poles, including nearly 3,000,000 Jews. There were no elections in Poland during this time.

I think it's a mistake to propose that any future Arab-Moslem government in either of the Pal'istans will be any different than what exists now (a dictatorship typical of all the other Arab-islamist dictatorships that define the Arab-Moslem Middle East).

All of the freedoms that we in the West have fought for and struggled to maintain, all of our accomplishments in the arena of social justice, so many of the benefits of Western civilization that we take for granted are derived from precepts that are antithetical to Islamism. The secular environments in academia and the workplace of the West, which have facilitated the achievements we've made in the sciences, technology, economics, medicine, the arts, and beyond, are also absent in the moslem world. Any philosophy or ideology which deviates from or contradicts the religion is called bid'ah (innovation). Living under a government run by man's law (democracy) instead of muhammud's (swish) law (sharia) is shirk and thus inimical to Islam. Therefore, the modern Western precepts of human rights, justice, and civil liberties have been denied to Moslems, except in the West, of course.

You are not dealing with my post which illustrated how in the so-called West there was no democracy as such as well as bogus science based on racism within living memory.

It is for a people (such as the Palestinians) to decide what sort of government it will eventually have but this cannot be expected in their condition under a brutal occupation and blockade. The half-century occupation should be ended in the interests of the Palestinians indeed and for the Israelis who are living in a country that is in perpetual hostility with its nearest neighbors.

 

[Hollie]

It is unreasonable to expect a normal functioning democracy while Palestine is divided and under occupation. About 6 million Polish citizens died between 1939 and 1945 as a result of the Nazi occupation, half of whom were Polish Jews. Overall, during German occupation Polish territory, 1939–1945, the Germans murdered 5,470,000–5,670,000 Poles, including nearly 3,000,000 Jews. There were no elections in Poland during this time.

I think it's a mistake to propose that any future Arab-Moslem government in either of the Pal'istans will be any different than what exists now (a dictatorship typical of all the other Arab-islamist dictatorships that define the Arab-Moslem Middle East).

All of the freedoms that we in the West have fought for and struggled to maintain, all of our accomplishments in the arena of social justice, so many of the benefits of Western civilization that we take for granted are derived from precepts that are antithetical to Islamism. The secular environments in academia and the workplace of the West, which have facilitated the achievements we've made in the sciences, technology, economics, medicine, the arts, and beyond, are also absent in the moslem world. Any philosophy or ideology which deviates from or contradicts the religion is called bid'ah (innovation). Living under a government run by man's law (democracy) instead of muhammud's (swish) law (sharia) is shirk and thus inimical to Islam. Therefore, the modern Western precepts of human rights, justice, and civil liberties have been denied to Moslems, except in the West, of course.

You are not dealing with my post which illustrated how in the so-called West there was no democracy as such as well as bogus science based on racism within living memory.

It is for a people (such as the Palestinians) to decide what sort of government it will eventually have but this cannot be expected in their condition under a brutal occupation and blockade. The half-century occupation should be ended in the interests of the Palestinians indeed and for the Israelis who are living in a country that is in perpetual hostility with its nearest neighbors.

I think you need to reconsider your comment regarding Pal'istanians choosing their own government. Obviously, the Gaza'istan version of Pal'istanians chose the government they wanted. They elected a rabidly hateful islamic terrorist franchise that serves only to exploit a UN funded welfare fraud. The Pals got what they wanted and Hamas is giving them the very "government" they now cannot remove. In a phrase, it's called 'Pal'istanian' Mentaity™.

Who is responsible for this brutal occupation and blockade™ your writing about? Gaza is not occupied. The border controls that are in place both by Israeli and Egyptian forces is a necessary step by those respective governments to prevent attacks from the very islamic terrorist franchise that the Pal'istanian Gazans put into government.

 

[Eloy]

It is unreasonable to expect a normal functioning democracy while Palestine is divided and under occupation. About 6 million Polish citizens died between 1939 and 1945 as a result of the Nazi occupation, half of whom were Polish Jews. Overall, during German occupation Polish territory, 1939–1945, the Germans murdered 5,470,000–5,670,000 Poles, including nearly 3,000,000 Jews. There were no elections in Poland during this time.

I think it's a mistake to propose that any future Arab-Moslem government in either of the Pal'istans will be any different than what exists now (a dictatorship typical of all the other Arab-islamist dictatorships that define the Arab-Moslem Middle East).

All of the freedoms that we in the West have fought for and struggled to maintain, all of our accomplishments in the arena of social justice, so many of the benefits of Western civilization that we take for granted are derived from precepts that are antithetical to Islamism. The secular environments in academia and the workplace of the West, which have facilitated the achievements we've made in the sciences, technology, economics, medicine, the arts, and beyond, are also absent in the moslem world. Any philosophy or ideology which deviates from or contradicts the religion is called bid'ah (innovation). Living under a government run by man's law (democracy) instead of muhammud's (swish) law (sharia) is shirk and thus inimical to Islam. Therefore, the modern Western precepts of human rights, justice, and civil liberties have been denied to Moslems, except in the West, of course.

You are not dealing with my post which illustrated how in the so-called West there was no democracy as such as well as bogus science based on racism within living memory.

It is for a people (such as the Palestinians) to decide what sort of government it will eventually have but this cannot be expected in their condition under a brutal occupation and blockade. The half-century occupation should be ended in the interests of the Palestinians indeed and for the Israelis who are living in a country that is in perpetual hostility with its nearest neighbors.

I think you need to reconsider your comment regarding Pal'istanians choosing their own government. Obviously, the Gaza'istan version of Pal'istanians chose the government they wanted. They elected a rabidly hateful islamic terrorist franchise that serves only to exploit a UN funded welfare fraud. The Pals got what they wanted and Hamas is giving them the very "government" they now cannot remove. In a phrase, it's called 'Pal'istanian' Mentaity™.

Who is responsible for this brutal occupation and blockade™ your writing about? Gaza is not occupied. The border controls that are in place both by Israeli and Egyptian forces is a necessary step by those respective governments to prevent attacks from the very islamic terrorist franchise that the Pal'istanian Gazans put into government.

I will not be replying to any more of your posts on the grounds that you cannot bring yourself to even write the words Palestinians and Gaza. I consider your choice of words instead to be offensive.