Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Come on and get real.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.​

You are forgetting that the foreigners declared Israel inside Palestine at the point of a gun.

But you do not think that is external interference along with other violations of Palestinian rights. Rights that the UN has affirmed have been violated.

(COMMENT)

On 15 May 1948, the UK as the assigned Mandatory, retired from the territory. The "Successor Government" for Palestine, became the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC). The Jewish Agency completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence, to the satisfaction of the "Successor Government for Palestine." Pursuant to the Recommendations adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)], the Jewish Agency, (under Part I - Section B Clause 4) and a declaration was made (having establish a Provisional Government) to the United Nations by the provisional government in accordance with the General Assembly Recommendation (Part 1, Section C). At the public announcement of the UNPC Adjournment (Sine Die) it was noted that: "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Resolution 181 (II) made the stipulation that " Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III below."

It was noted in the First Special Report to the UN Security Council that "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein." In order to prevent further implementation of the Recommendations Adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)]:

"On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs."
SOURCE: The Question of Palestine and the United Nations
​

This is the UN History - Chapter 2, Page 9-10 of the Source.

This leaves no doubt that the Arab League Forces crossed their Frontier Boundaries and became the "external influence" attempting to prevent the Jewish Agency - Provisional Government of Israel, from exercising their right of self-determination.

Since that time, while both Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994) have both come to Peace Terms with Israel. In 1983 The Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Republic of Lebanon signed a May 1983; it was never ratified by the Lebanese government due to strong Syrian opposition to the treaty. Syria, has its own special problems. The People of Palestine have no single voice and no single policy.

(QUESTION)

In any multinational organization like the UN, it is like a heard of cats. There will be many and varied opinion on any issue you bring before them. I don't know of a single international court hearing that has ruled on any Israel has violated any international law concerning rights.

Most Respectfully,
R

Pursuant to the Recommendations adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)], the Jewish Agency, blah, blah,blah.​

What part of Resolution 181 did Israel abide by?

All of it, and just because you are blinded by your Jew hatred and islamonazi brainwashing does not mean they didnt. It was the arab muslims that refused to abide by UN res 181 or any other UN resolution.

WHY DO YOU ASK THE SAME STUPID QUESTIONS TIME AFTER TIME THE ANSWERS ARE THE SAME

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Come on and get real.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.​

You are forgetting that the foreigners declared Israel inside Palestine at the point of a gun.

But you do not think that is external interference along with other violations of Palestinian rights. Rights that the UN has affirmed have been violated.

(COMMENT)

On 15 May 1948, the UK as the assigned Mandatory, retired from the territory. The "Successor Government" for Palestine, became the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC). The Jewish Agency completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence, to the satisfaction of the "Successor Government for Palestine." Pursuant to the Recommendations adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)], the Jewish Agency, (under Part I - Section B Clause 4) and a declaration was made (having establish a Provisional Government) to the United Nations by the provisional government in accordance with the General Assembly Recommendation (Part 1, Section C). At the public announcement of the UNPC Adjournment (Sine Die) it was noted that: "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Resolution 181 (II) made the stipulation that " Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III below."

It was noted in the First Special Report to the UN Security Council that "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein." In order to prevent further implementation of the Recommendations Adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)]:

"On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs."
SOURCE: The Question of Palestine and the United Nations
​

This is the UN History - Chapter 2, Page 9-10 of the Source.

This leaves no doubt that the Arab League Forces crossed their Frontier Boundaries and became the "external influence" attempting to prevent the Jewish Agency - Provisional Government of Israel, from exercising their right of self-determination.

Since that time, while both Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994) have both come to Peace Terms with Israel. In 1983 The Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Republic of Lebanon signed a May 1983; it was never ratified by the Lebanese government due to strong Syrian opposition to the treaty. Syria, has its own special problems. The People of Palestine have no single voice and no single policy.

(QUESTION)

In any multinational organization like the UN, it is like a heard of cats. There will be many and varied opinion on any issue you bring before them. I don't know of a single international court hearing that has ruled on any Israel has violated any international law concerning rights.

Most Respectfully,
R

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly​

It was their right to reject the partition of their country.

HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH THE " IT WAS AN ARAB MUSLIM COUNTRY" AND NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM.

What treaty named palestine as the arab muslim nation and dissolved the international law granting it to the Jews as their National Home.

Will you ever provide the evidence to support your claim, or will you just keep on ignoring the requests ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Come on and get real.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.​

You are forgetting that the foreigners declared Israel inside Palestine at the point of a gun.

But you do not think that is external interference along with other violations of Palestinian rights. Rights that the UN has affirmed have been violated.

(COMMENT)

On 15 May 1948, the UK as the assigned Mandatory, retired from the territory. The "Successor Government" for Palestine, became the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC). The Jewish Agency completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence, to the satisfaction of the "Successor Government for Palestine." Pursuant to the Recommendations adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)], the Jewish Agency, (under Part I - Section B Clause 4) and a declaration was made (having establish a Provisional Government) to the United Nations by the provisional government in accordance with the General Assembly Recommendation (Part 1, Section C). At the public announcement of the UNPC Adjournment (Sine Die) it was noted that: "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Resolution 181 (II) made the stipulation that " Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III below."

It was noted in the First Special Report to the UN Security Council that "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein." In order to prevent further implementation of the Recommendations Adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)]:

"On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs."
SOURCE: The Question of Palestine and the United Nations
​

This is the UN History - Chapter 2, Page 9-10 of the Source.

This leaves no doubt that the Arab League Forces crossed their Frontier Boundaries and became the "external influence" attempting to prevent the Jewish Agency - Provisional Government of Israel, from exercising their right of self-determination.

Since that time, while both Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994) have both come to Peace Terms with Israel. In 1983 The Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Republic of Lebanon signed a May 1983; it was never ratified by the Lebanese government due to strong Syrian opposition to the treaty. Syria, has its own special problems. The People of Palestine have no single voice and no single policy.

(QUESTION)

In any multinational organization like the UN, it is like a heard of cats. There will be many and varied opinion on any issue you bring before them. I don't know of a single international court hearing that has ruled on any Israel has violated any international law concerning rights.

Most Respectfully,
R

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly​

It was their right to reject the partition of their country.

The "country of Pal'istan"? Was this "country" an exclusive Arab country?

No, only racists worry about such things.

Which is what you are when you deny the Jews their RIGHTS and support of International law. All you have is islamonazi propagand talking points and islamofascist blood libels as your evidence

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Come on and get real.

In the case of the 1948 Independence of Israel, it was the Arab League that demonstrated the external interference and not Israel.​

You are forgetting that the foreigners declared Israel inside Palestine at the point of a gun.

But you do not think that is external interference along with other violations of Palestinian rights. Rights that the UN has affirmed have been violated.

(COMMENT)

On 15 May 1948, the UK as the assigned Mandatory, retired from the territory. The "Successor Government" for Palestine, became the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC). The Jewish Agency completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence, to the satisfaction of the "Successor Government for Palestine." Pursuant to the Recommendations adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)], the Jewish Agency, (under Part I - Section B Clause 4) and a declaration was made (having establish a Provisional Government) to the United Nations by the provisional government in accordance with the General Assembly Recommendation (Part 1, Section C). At the public announcement of the UNPC Adjournment (Sine Die) it was noted that: "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Resolution 181 (II) made the stipulation that " Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III below."

It was noted in the First Special Report to the UN Security Council that "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein." In order to prevent further implementation of the Recommendations Adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)]:

"On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs."
SOURCE: The Question of Palestine and the United Nations
​

This is the UN History - Chapter 2, Page 9-10 of the Source.

This leaves no doubt that the Arab League Forces crossed their Frontier Boundaries and became the "external influence" attempting to prevent the Jewish Agency - Provisional Government of Israel, from exercising their right of self-determination.

Since that time, while both Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994) have both come to Peace Terms with Israel. In 1983 The Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Republic of Lebanon signed a May 1983; it was never ratified by the Lebanese government due to strong Syrian opposition to the treaty. Syria, has its own special problems. The People of Palestine have no single voice and no single policy.

(QUESTION)

In any multinational organization like the UN, it is like a heard of cats. There will be many and varied opinion on any issue you bring before them. I don't know of a single international court hearing that has ruled on any Israel has violated any international law concerning rights.

Most Respectfully,
R

On 15 May 1948, the UK as the assigned Mandatory, retired from the territory. The "Successor Government"​

Like I said before. Another government imposed by foreigners.

Was it or is it just the arab muslims that spread this LIE. No other part of the M.E. had any problems with the LoN appointed mandatories and worked with them to secure a future and a vibrant nation. Just the islamonazi scum wanting to wipe out the Jews as commanded by the mufti and the false prophet

 

[Phoenall]

...Apparently the Palestinian High Court doesn't think Gaza is mature enough to govern themselves.
Palestinian court orders polls only in West Bank

Not only highly predictable, the "High" Court's ruling exposes once again the Pal's inability (or unwillingness) to establish the rule of law and justice in the Territories. Instead they continue to operate under the rule of tyranny and oppression, both necessary for the continuation of their war against Israel.

As noted in the OP:
While this (suspension of elections) is not an unusual move in places where the rule of law plays second fiddle to the ruling regime's whim, it illustrates the failure of Palestinians to establish an electoral democracy and a genuinely functional state.

The ascension of Hamas prompted the PA's Fatah ruling party to tighten their grip on their share of power which is most of the West Bank, creating 2 separate and competing national gov'ts.

While Fatah's intention - the exclusion of a known terrorist gang from governance - may have been pragmatic, the result has been to engender oppression.

As things now stand the PA must either to form a single gov't with the rule of law and peaceful coexistence as its goals or to continue with Gaza and the WB as separate entities and perhaps create a WB Palestinian State sans Gaza.

The choice is, as always, theirs.

There are no guarantees in the West Bank either where many Hamas leaders are illegally detained by the illegal government.

If they break the laws of the country then how are they illegally detained ? That is like saying a mass killer in the US is detained illegally because he is of a different political party to the Senate.................

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You act as if I did not answer that question.

What part of Resolution 181 did Israel abide by?

(ANSWER) - FOUND IN POST #144 ABOVE!

The Jewish Agency completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence, to the satisfaction of the "Successor Government for Palestine." Pursuant to the Recommendations adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)], the Jewish Agency, (under Part I - Section B Clause 4) and a declaration was made (having establish a Provisional Government) to the United Nations by the provisional government in accordance with the General Assembly Recommendation (Part 1, Section C). At the public announcement of the UNPC Adjournment (Sine Die) it was noted that: "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

You have to remember, the Jewish Agency and the Provisional Government DID NOT have to meet the 1947-1948 P F Tinmore standard. It had to coordinate, and complete the Steps Preparatory to Independence to the satisfaction of the incoming Successor Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice duck.

What duck, he answered your question and showed you as the stubborn idiot you are. You are the one that ducks all the time when you ignore requests to produce the links naming palestine as a nation prior to 1988. Then ducks when it is shown you are denying the Jews their rights under international law, UN charter and treaties.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, you are being contrite.

Nice duck.

(COMMENT)

What is that you wanted the Jewish Agency to do (exactly)?

What is it with your agenda? Do you just want to complain about the ability of the Jewish Agency to get a better result then did they Arab Agency?

Oh yeah, that is right. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

What particular task are you looking for? Let's discuss your actual objective complaint?

Most Respectfully,
R

There were many parts to Resolution 181.

• Proposed borders
• Land for two states.
• International Jerusalem.
• Rights of the people.
• Citizenship.
• UN control of the millitary.
• Constitutions.

Where was Israel on these issues?

In complete agreement as their declaration states


The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books.

After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom.

Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses. Pioneers, ma'pilim [(Hebrew) - immigrants coming to Eretz-Israel in defiance of restrictive legislation] and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country's inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood.

In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country.

This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration of the 2nd November, 1917, and re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations which, in particular, gave international sanction to the historic connection between the Jewish people and Eretz-Israel and to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home.

The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people - the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe - was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the comity of nations.

Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national homeland.

In the Second World War, the Jewish community of this country contributed its full share to the struggle of the freedom- and peace-loving nations against the forces of Nazi wickedness and, by the blood of its soldiers and its war effort, gained the right to be reckoned among the peoples who founded the United Nations.

On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.

This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.

ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE BASIS OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "Israel".

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel.

WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations.

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

WE APPEAL to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel in the tasks of immigration and upbuilding and to stand by them in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream - the redemption of Israel.

PLACING OUR TRUST IN THE "ROCK OF ISRAEL", WE AFFIX OUR SIGNATURES TO THIS PROCLAMATION AT THIS SESSION OF THE PROVISIONAL COUNCIL OF STATE, ON THE SOIL OF THE HOMELAND, IN THE CITY OF TEL-AVIV, ON THIS SABBATH EVE, THE 5TH DAY OF IYAR, 5708 (14TH MAY,1948)




On the borders this was the situation

On the border issue, the original draft had declared that the borders would be that decided by the UN partition plan. While this was supported by Rosen and Bechor-Shalom Sheetrit, it was opposed by Ben-Gurion and Zisling, with Ben-Gurion stating, "We accepted the UN Resolution, but the Arabs did not. They are preparing to make war on us. If we defeat them and capture western Galilee or territory on both sides of the road to Jerusalem, these areas will become part of the state. Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs don't accept?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You act as if I did not answer that question.

What part of Resolution 181 did Israel abide by?

(ANSWER) - FOUND IN POST #144 ABOVE!

The Jewish Agency completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence, to the satisfaction of the "Successor Government for Palestine." Pursuant to the Recommendations adopted by the General Assembly [A/RES/181(II)], the Jewish Agency, (under Part I - Section B Clause 4) and a declaration was made (having establish a Provisional Government) to the United Nations by the provisional government in accordance with the General Assembly Recommendation (Part 1, Section C). At the public announcement of the UNPC Adjournment (Sine Die) it was noted that: "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

You have to remember, the Jewish Agency and the Provisional Government DID NOT have to meet the 1947-1948 P F Tinmore standard. It had to coordinate, and complete the Steps Preparatory to Independence to the satisfaction of the incoming Successor Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice duck.

Speaking of ducks, it looks as though the West Bank is going to the polls and Gaza Strip is not. That's one fine duck. Apparently the Palestinian High Court doesn't think Gaza is mature enough to govern themselves.

Judiciary in Gaza does not have necessary ‘guarantees’ for elections, says court
The Palestinian high court on Monday ordered municipal elections to be held only in the West Bank and not in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, though a new date for the suspended polls was not set.

The ruling could bring to an end hopes that the municipal elections would be the first polls since 2006 in which both Hamas and Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas’s Fatah would participate.

“The court orders the implementation of the government’s decision on the holding of local elections,” court president Hisham al-Hatoo ruled before a packed courtroom in the West Bank city of Ramallah. He said however the judiciary in Gaza did not have necessary “guarantees” in place for the holding of the polls. The elections had initially been set for October 8.


On September 8, the court suspended the polls following disputes between Fatah and Hamas over candidate lists.

Hamas immediately dismissed Monday’s decision as “political”.


Palestinian court orders polls only in West Bank

I wonder if hamas employ tinny for his celebrated one liners ? Their response was very much a Tinnmore

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you have to remember that, on 15 May the Arab League crossed the frontier as armed aggressors exerting an external influence. By launching such an attack it introduced a number of changes that otherwise may have turned-out differently.

There were many parts to Resolution 181.

• Proposed borders
• Land for two states.
• International Jerusalem.
• Rights of the people.
• Citizenship.
• UN control of the millitary.
• Constitutions.

Where was Israel on these issues?

(COMMENT)

In general, a formal declaration made by Government of Israel accepted all the obligations stipulated in the United Nations Charter is enclosed; at a time Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors. Once more, the The Partition Plan A/RES/181 (II) was a recommendation only; UN Special Committee.

• Borders: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, Israel assumed their basic position as: he State of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within the frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947. - See more at: The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)

• Two-States: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, the Israeli position envisioned a Two-State (Israel - Palestine) starting at the end of the Mandate, which would lead to the establishment of two states in a series of parallel stages. Because the Plan was rejected by the Arab side, it could not be implemented.

• Jerusalem: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, assumed that the UN recommendation on the issue of Jerusalem would be the interim position. However, the Government House in the neutralized area, established by the United Nations in its effort to pacify an increasing area of the Holy City.

• Rights of the People: Israel did accept in principle, freedom of religion, language, speech and publication, education, assembly and association; including the non-discriminatory rights in civil, political, and economic matters.

• Citizenship: This is a Part I - Section C - Chapter 3 - Clause 1: issue and NOT a Step Preparatory to Independence. Having said that: Israel had a basic acceptance that Arabs residing in the area of the proposed Jewish State intending to remain in the Jewish State would be granted Israeli Citizenship. Citizenship would be a Post War consideration.

• UN Control of Military:

• Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, May 15, 1948 --- states in part: The "Provisional Government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law.

• In S/1093, Israel adopted the position formally that the independence of the State of Israel was proclaimed by the National Council of the Jewish People in Palestine. Since that time --- Israel has been improving administratively and defended itself successfully against the aggression of Arab League.
​

• Constitutions: Israel operates under the Basic Law concept, as do many independent states. There several Basic Laws that pertain to the rights outlined in the Steps Preparatory to Independence. One such law is: Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty
​

But what I gather here is that you are trying to find something that the Israelis did not accomplish within the list of Steps Preparatory to Independence. And much of that was truncated by the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors against Israel. What I think is even more incredible is that for as much as you pound on the concept of these various rights you fail to acknowledge that the Arab League entered into an international armed conflict (IAC) on a justification contrary to the UN Charter. While Israel seldom makes this an issue, probably because the Arab League lost more effective control, then it achieved. This is true in 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence, 1967 Six Day War, and the 1973 Yom Kipper War.

Again, it should be stressed that Israel never took any territory that was under the effective control of the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

Hossfly, et al,

This kind of political action under the color of law, is simply an example of how their forward thinking has shrunk to near zero.

Speaking of ducks, it looks as though the West Bank is going to the polls and Gaza Strip is not. That's one fine duck. Apparently the Palestinian High Court doesn't think Gaza is mature enough to govern themselves.

Judiciary in Gaza does not have necessary ‘guarantees’ for elections, says court
The Palestinian high court on Monday ordered municipal elections to be held only in the West Bank and not in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, though a new date for the suspended polls was not set.

The ruling could bring to an end hopes that the municipal elections would be the first polls since 2006 in which both Hamas and Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas’s Fatah would participate.

“The court orders the implementation of the government’s decision on the holding of local elections,” court president Hisham al-Hatoo ruled before a packed courtroom in the West Bank city of Ramallah. He said however the judiciary in Gaza did not have necessary “guarantees” in place for the holding of the polls. The elections had initially been set for October 8.

On September 8, the court suspended the polls following disputes between Fatah and Hamas over candidate lists.

Hamas immediately dismissed Monday’s decision as “political”.

Palestinian court orders polls only in West Bank

(COMMENT)

This is potentially one of the most devistating decisions made by the Arab Palestinians to date. If this is used by HAMAS to form separately, then the West Bank will have lost gas/oil concession from the Levant Basin.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you have to remember that, on 15 May the Arab League crossed the frontier as armed aggressors exerting an external influence. By launching such an attack it introduced a number of changes that otherwise may have turned-out differently.

There were many parts to Resolution 181.

• Proposed borders
• Land for two states.
• International Jerusalem.
• Rights of the people.
• Citizenship.
• UN control of the millitary.
• Constitutions.

Where was Israel on these issues?

(COMMENT)

In general, a formal declaration made by Government of Israel accepted all the obligations stipulated in the United Nations Charter is enclosed; at a time Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors. Once more, the The Partition Plan A/RES/181 (II) was a recommendation only; UN Special Committee.

• Borders: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, Israel assumed their basic position as: he State of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within the frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947. - See more at: The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)

• Two-States: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, the Israeli position envisioned a Two-State (Israel - Palestine) starting at the end of the Mandate, which would lead to the establishment of two states in a series of parallel stages. Because the Plan was rejected by the Arab side, it could not be implemented.

• Jerusalem: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, assumed that the UN recommendation on the issue of Jerusalem would be the interim position. However, the Government House in the neutralized area, established by the United Nations in its effort to pacify an increasing area of the Holy City.

• Rights of the People: Israel did accept in principle, freedom of religion, language, speech and publication, education, assembly and association; including the non-discriminatory rights in civil, political, and economic matters.

• Citizenship: This is a Part I - Section C - Chapter 3 - Clause 1: issue and NOT a Step Preparatory to Independence. Having said that: Israel had a basic acceptance that Arabs residing in the area of the proposed Jewish State intending to remain in the Jewish State would be granted Israeli Citizenship. Citizenship would be a Post War consideration.

• UN Control of Military:

• Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, May 15, 1948 --- states in part: The "Provisional Government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law.

• In S/1093, Israel adopted the position formally that the independence of the State of Israel was proclaimed by the National Council of the Jewish People in Palestine. Since that time --- Israel has been improving administratively and defended itself successfully against the aggression of Arab League.
​

• Constitutions: Israel operates under the Basic Law concept, as do many independent states. There several Basic Laws that pertain to the rights outlined in the Steps Preparatory to Independence. One such law is: Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty​

But what I gather here is that you are trying to find something that the Israelis did not accomplish within the list of Steps Preparatory to Independence. And much of that was truncated by the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors against Israel. What I think is even more incredible is that for as much as you pound on the concept of these various rights you fail to acknowledge that the Arab League entered into an international armed conflict (IAC) on a justification contrary to the UN Charter. While Israel seldom makes this an issue, probably because the Arab League lost more effective control, then it achieved. This is true in 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence, 1967 Six Day War, and the 1973 Yom Kipper War.

Again, it should be stressed that Israel never took any territory that was under the effective control of the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

Interesting link. I have read that before.

The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)

There are some contradictions in this article.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations. This is not correct. The UN does not have authority under its Charter to create or divide states. The Partition Plan was a recommendation only. The Plan envisaged a process, starting at the end of the Mandate, which would lead to the establishment of two states in a series of parallel stages. Because the Plan was rejected by the Arab side, it could not be implemented.​

OK, so who does?

Borders can be changed, but a state can only acquire territory from a neighbor by legal annexation, that is, by agreement, and with a referendum of the population. Obtaining territory by war violates fundamental principles of the UN Charter. Nevertheless, this is what Israel did.​

So, how did Israel claim Resolution 181 borders when the UN had no authority to partition Palestine? Resolution 181 was a recommendation that was not implemented.

That is the contradiction. Accordingly Israel could not acquire any land without an agreement with the Palestinians. Not just the land outside of the partition plan that did not happen.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you have to remember that, on 15 May the Arab League crossed the frontier as armed aggressors exerting an external influence. By launching such an attack it introduced a number of changes that otherwise may have turned-out differently.

There were many parts to Resolution 181.

• Proposed borders
• Land for two states.
• International Jerusalem.
• Rights of the people.
• Citizenship.
• UN control of the millitary.
• Constitutions.

Where was Israel on these issues?

(COMMENT)

In general, a formal declaration made by Government of Israel accepted all the obligations stipulated in the United Nations Charter is enclosed; at a time Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors. Once more, the The Partition Plan A/RES/181 (II) was a recommendation only; UN Special Committee.

• Borders: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, Israel assumed their basic position as: he State of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within the frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947. - See more at: The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)

• Two-States: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, the Israeli position envisioned a Two-State (Israel - Palestine) starting at the end of the Mandate, which would lead to the establishment of two states in a series of parallel stages. Because the Plan was rejected by the Arab side, it could not be implemented.

• Jerusalem: Prior to the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors, assumed that the UN recommendation on the issue of Jerusalem would be the interim position. However, the Government House in the neutralized area, established by the United Nations in its effort to pacify an increasing area of the Holy City.

• Rights of the People: Israel did accept in principle, freedom of religion, language, speech and publication, education, assembly and association; including the non-discriminatory rights in civil, political, and economic matters.

• Citizenship: This is a Part I - Section C - Chapter 3 - Clause 1: issue and NOT a Step Preparatory to Independence. Having said that: Israel had a basic acceptance that Arabs residing in the area of the proposed Jewish State intending to remain in the Jewish State would be granted Israeli Citizenship. Citizenship would be a Post War consideration.

• UN Control of Military:

• Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, May 15, 1948 --- states in part: The "Provisional Government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law.

• In S/1093, Israel adopted the position formally that the independence of the State of Israel was proclaimed by the National Council of the Jewish People in Palestine. Since that time --- Israel has been improving administratively and defended itself successfully against the aggression of Arab League.
​

• Constitutions: Israel operates under the Basic Law concept, as do many independent states. There several Basic Laws that pertain to the rights outlined in the Steps Preparatory to Independence. One such law is: Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty​

But what I gather here is that you are trying to find something that the Israelis did not accomplish within the list of Steps Preparatory to Independence. And much of that was truncated by the Arab League crossing the frontiers as armed aggressors against Israel. What I think is even more incredible is that for as much as you pound on the concept of these various rights you fail to acknowledge that the Arab League entered into an international armed conflict (IAC) on a justification contrary to the UN Charter. While Israel seldom makes this an issue, probably because the Arab League lost more effective control, then it achieved. This is true in 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence, 1967 Six Day War, and the 1973 Yom Kipper War.

Again, it should be stressed that Israel never took any territory that was under the effective control of the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

Interesting link. I have read that before.

The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)

There are some contradictions in this article.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations. This is not correct. The UN does not have authority under its Charter to create or divide states. The Partition Plan was a recommendation only. The Plan envisaged a process, starting at the end of the Mandate, which would lead to the establishment of two states in a series of parallel stages. Because the Plan was rejected by the Arab side, it could not be implemented.​

OK, so who does?

Borders can be changed, but a state can only acquire territory from a neighbor by legal annexation, that is, by agreement, and with a referendum of the population. Obtaining territory by war violates fundamental principles of the UN Charter. Nevertheless, this is what Israel did.​

So, how did Israel claim Resolution 181 borders when the UN had no authority to partition Palestine? Resolution 181 was a recommendation that was not implemented.

That is the contradiction. Accordingly Israel could not acquire any land without an agreement with the Palestinians. Not just the land outside of the partition plan that did not happen.

Once again you deliberately forget the LoN treaty that was made in 1923 that split palestine into 2 parts, the larger being the arab muslim national home and the smaller being the Jewish national home. The arab muslims calling themselves palestinians are there illegally and so had no say in what the Jews did when they declared independence. UN res 181 was just a guideline for what the anti semitic UN wanted to see, and when the arab league denied it they knew they would need to give the Jews all they wanted. Now where do you get your fanciful idea that the 22% of palestine granted to the Jews as their national home was ever arab muslim owned land.
You are once again backdating an international law to suit your Jew hatred as the concept of gaining land by war being illegal was not brought in until after the creation of Israel and was done so to stop the arab league from stealing Israeli lands. You really need to stop reading just islamonazi versions of history and star reading the proper history books and papers

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not paying attention. (We went through this before. You keep shopping around for answers until you hear the one you want.)

And yes, I am quite aware of the "so-called" hidden documents. Hidden is not quite the right word. Normally we call them formerly "CLASSIFIED" -- or -- "DECLASSIFIED." And the normal classification period (the number of years before it can be released) way back then, was 25 - 30 years. (Remember, that was even before the Department of Defense was created.) By that time, they have already been moved in the Archive (when no longer needed for reference).

​

Interesting link. I have read that before.

There are some contradictions in this article.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations.​

OK, so who does?

(COMMENT)

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled. While the Declaration of Independent may have been shaped by the UN Recommends adopted in 1947 [A/RES/181 (II)].

The claim you make it entirely wrong, as is everything tied to that tree of logic: "suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations." The "declarative" method derives its authority from the "right of self-determination." [See; (Recognition of a State)] The legitimacy of the State of Israel does not rest in some land transfer or acquisition document, treaty or agreement (you often ask for); although there are elements of that everywhere.. It does not really need to lawful authority to say it exists. If the Jewish State of Israel is a physical reality, one in which Israel has exclusive control over, --- then it is. Factual existence of exclusive authority. The Israelis has it --- and --- the Palestinians don't. It is that simple.

There are to ways to acquire the territory under these specific conditions. The way used was the

Borders can be changed, but a state can only acquire territory from a neighbor by legal annexation, that is, by agreement, and with a referendum of the population. Obtaining territory by war violates fundamental principles of the UN Charter. Nevertheless, this is what Israel did.​

So, how did Israel claim Resolution 181 borders when the UN had no authority to partition Palestine? Resolution 181 was a recommendation that was not implemented.

That is the contradiction. Accordingly Israel could not acquire any land without an agreement with the Palestinians. Not just the land outside of the partition plan that did not happen.

(COMMENT)

Whether Israel claims the boundaries outlined in (off-the-shelf) A/RES/181 (II) --- or uses a drawing off the back of a Cereal Box, -- or the picture on a Milk Carton --- is totally irrelevant; it is the exclusive control and announcement. If you are traveling down the road and you run into this:

THEN, you ran into the physical evidence for the existence of a frontier; in this case Israel and Egypt.

Really, it is quite simple. Don't make it harder than it really is.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not paying attention. (We went through this before. You keep shopping around for answers until you hear the one you want.)

And yes, I am quite aware of the "so-called" hidden documents. Hidden is not quite the right word. Normally we call them formerly "CLASSIFIED" -- or -- "DECLASSIFIED." And the normal classification period (the number of years before it can be released) way back then, was 25 - 30 years. (Remember, that was even before the Department of Defense was created.) By that time, they have already been moved in the Archive (when no longer needed for reference).

​

Interesting link. I have read that before.

There are some contradictions in this article.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations.​

OK, so who does?

(COMMENT)

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled. While the Declaration of Independent may have been shaped by the UN Recommends adopted in 1947 [A/RES/181 (II)].

The claim you make it entirely wrong, as is everything tied to that tree of logic: "suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations." The "declarative" method derives its authority from the "right of self-determination." [See; (Recognition of a State)] The legitimacy of the State of Israel does not rest in some land transfer or acquisition document, treaty or agreement (you often ask for); although there are elements of that everywhere.. It does not really need to lawful authority to say it exists. If the Jewish State of Israel is a physical reality, one in which Israel has exclusive control over, --- then it is. Factual existence of exclusive authority. The Israelis has it --- and --- the Palestinians don't. It is that simple.

There are to ways to acquire the territory under these specific conditions. The way used was the

Borders can be changed, but a state can only acquire territory from a neighbor by legal annexation, that is, by agreement, and with a referendum of the population. Obtaining territory by war violates fundamental principles of the UN Charter. Nevertheless, this is what Israel did.​

So, how did Israel claim Resolution 181 borders when the UN had no authority to partition Palestine? Resolution 181 was a recommendation that was not implemented.

That is the contradiction. Accordingly Israel could not acquire any land without an agreement with the Palestinians. Not just the land outside of the partition plan that did not happen.

(COMMENT)

Whether Israel claims the boundaries outlined in (off-the-shelf) A/RES/181 (II) --- or uses a drawing off the back of a Cereal Box, is totally irrelevant. If you are traveling down the road and you run into this:

View attachment 92093​

THEN, you ran into the physical evidence for the existence of Israel.

Really, it is quite simple. Don't make it harder than it really is.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled.​

Like a military occupation?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not paying attention. (We went through this before. You keep shopping around for answers until you hear the one you want.)

And yes, I am quite aware of the "so-called" hidden documents. Hidden is not quite the right word. Normally we call them formerly "CLASSIFIED" -- or -- "DECLASSIFIED." And the normal classification period (the number of years before it can be released) way back then, was 25 - 30 years. (Remember, that was even before the Department of Defense was created.) By that time, they have already been moved in the Archive (when no longer needed for reference).

​

Interesting link. I have read that before.

There are some contradictions in this article.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations.​

OK, so who does?

(COMMENT)

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled. While the Declaration of Independent may have been shaped by the UN Recommends adopted in 1947 [A/RES/181 (II)].

The claim you make it entirely wrong, as is everything tied to that tree of logic: "suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations." The "declarative" method derives its authority from the "right of self-determination." [See; (Recognition of a State)] The legitimacy of the State of Israel does not rest in some land transfer or acquisition document, treaty or agreement (you often ask for); although there are elements of that everywhere.. It does not really need to lawful authority to say it exists. If the Jewish State of Israel is a physical reality, one in which Israel has exclusive control over, --- then it is. Factual existence of exclusive authority. The Israelis has it --- and --- the Palestinians don't. It is that simple.

There are to ways to acquire the territory under these specific conditions. The way used was the

Borders can be changed, but a state can only acquire territory from a neighbor by legal annexation, that is, by agreement, and with a referendum of the population. Obtaining territory by war violates fundamental principles of the UN Charter. Nevertheless, this is what Israel did.​

So, how did Israel claim Resolution 181 borders when the UN had no authority to partition Palestine? Resolution 181 was a recommendation that was not implemented.

That is the contradiction. Accordingly Israel could not acquire any land without an agreement with the Palestinians. Not just the land outside of the partition plan that did not happen.

(COMMENT)

Whether Israel claims the boundaries outlined in (off-the-shelf) A/RES/181 (II) --- or uses a drawing off the back of a Cereal Box, is totally irrelevant. If you are traveling down the road and you run into this:

View attachment 92093​

THEN, you ran into the physical evidence for the existence of Israel.

Really, it is quite simple. Don't make it harder than it really is.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled.​

Like a military occupation?

Actually, no. Occupation of the geographic area of Pal'istan occurred before the Ottoman Turks and later by Arab occupiers.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you almost have it. You are still shopping for the answer you want.

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled. While the Declaration of Independent may have been shaped by the UN Recommends adopted in 1947 [A/RES/181 (II)].

Like a military occupation?

(COMMENT)

In this case, there is some confusion. A "military occupation" is all about "effective control" (not exclusive control). In a "Military occupation" the Occupying Power does not have exclusive control as is a sovereign power over domestic sovereign territory.

Occupation may be defined as the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. This definition derives from Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907, which states that “Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.” (See Footnote #1: Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory.)

Exclusive Control is more ultimate power to control people and events within the area of the sovereign state.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you almost have it. You are still shopping for the answer you want.

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled. While the Declaration of Independent may have been shaped by the UN Recommends adopted in 1947 [A/RES/181 (II)].

Like a military occupation?

(COMMENT)

In this case, there is some confusion. A "military occupation" is all about "effective control" (not exclusive control). In a "Military occupation" the Occupying Power does not have exclusive control as is a sovereign power over domestic sovereign territory.

Occupation may be defined as the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. This definition derives from Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907, which states that “Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.” (See Footnote #1: Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory.)

Exclusive Control is more ultimate power to control people and events within the area of the sovereign state.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are ducking my post.

Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You asked a question and I copied the question and answered it directly. No ducking of the post!

You are ducking my post.

Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

(COMMENT)

IF the Palestinians cannot properly govern the Gaza Strip and Area "A" in the West Bank, THEN: what makes anyone think the leadership that has been in play for the last half-Century can bring it all under one functional government?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not paying attention. (We went through this before. You keep shopping around for answers until you hear the one you want.)

And yes, I am quite aware of the "so-called" hidden documents. Hidden is not quite the right word. Normally we call them formerly "CLASSIFIED" -- or -- "DECLASSIFIED." And the normal classification period (the number of years before it can be released) way back then, was 25 - 30 years. (Remember, that was even before the Department of Defense was created.) By that time, they have already been moved in the Archive (when no longer needed for reference).

​

Interesting link. I have read that before.

There are some contradictions in this article.

The words of the Declaration are intended to suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations.​

OK, so who does?

(COMMENT)

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled. While the Declaration of Independent may have been shaped by the UN Recommends adopted in 1947 [A/RES/181 (II)].

The claim you make it entirely wrong, as is everything tied to that tree of logic: "suggest that the creation of Israel was authorized by the United Nations." The "declarative" method derives its authority from the "right of self-determination." [See; (Recognition of a State)] The legitimacy of the State of Israel does not rest in some land transfer or acquisition document, treaty or agreement (you often ask for); although there are elements of that everywhere.. It does not really need to lawful authority to say it exists. If the Jewish State of Israel is a physical reality, one in which Israel has exclusive control over, --- then it is. Factual existence of exclusive authority. The Israelis has it --- and --- the Palestinians don't. It is that simple.

There are to ways to acquire the territory under these specific conditions. The way used was the

Borders can be changed, but a state can only acquire territory from a neighbor by legal annexation, that is, by agreement, and with a referendum of the population. Obtaining territory by war violates fundamental principles of the UN Charter. Nevertheless, this is what Israel did.​

So, how did Israel claim Resolution 181 borders when the UN had no authority to partition Palestine? Resolution 181 was a recommendation that was not implemented.

That is the contradiction. Accordingly Israel could not acquire any land without an agreement with the Palestinians. Not just the land outside of the partition plan that did not happen.

(COMMENT)

Whether Israel claims the boundaries outlined in (off-the-shelf) A/RES/181 (II) --- or uses a drawing off the back of a Cereal Box, is totally irrelevant. If you are traveling down the road and you run into this:

View attachment 92093​

THEN, you ran into the physical evidence for the existence of Israel.

Really, it is quite simple. Don't make it harder than it really is.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Declaratory Theory is the "hard fact." This "hard fact" was given form when Israel asserted its sovereignty within the territory Israel exclusively controlled.​

Like a military occupation?

Isnt that what Jordan and Israel did in 1949, on land that was Jewish under the Mandate of Palestine ?

Remember this was never arab muslim land and they are illegal immigrants squatting there, unless you have a treaty that names it as arab muslim land ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You asked a question and I copied the question and answered it directly. No ducking of the post!

You are ducking my post.

Can Palestinians Govern "Palestine?"

(COMMENT)

IF the Palestinians cannot properly govern the Gaza Strip and Area "A" in the West Bank, THEN: what makes anyone think the leadership that has been in play for the last half-Century can bring it all under one functional government?

Most Respectfully,
R

I didn't link to that post.