California Will Give Free High School Diplomas To Kids Who Flunked the Exit Exam

[ShootSpeeders]

What percentage of those who flunk the exit exam are black or brown?

We'll never be told but everyone knows it's somewhere around 95%

 

[ShootSpeeders]

It is not about skin color. It is about the culture. Black culture does not value education like white and Asian culture. Browns in CA largely do not even speak English.
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Black and brown culture views school as just free meals and free day care. You don't need education to be on welfare.

 

[aris2chat]

Schools want high graduation rates so they pressure teachers to pass everyone. Also a lot of teachers take bribes to pass failing kids. That's why we need to insist that students pass a standardized test like the GED to get that diploma.

Did you just miss the entire problem there? That *WAS* a standardized test the teachers were helping students cheat on.
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Which is why the tests have to be administered and graded by outsiders. You can't let the schools do it because yes, they will cheat.

Our exams were given the same time around the world. Ours started around 5am. Embassy held all exams in sealed boxes till the day before and boxes were broken open and passed around a few minutes before. All test booklets were seal and we had to break the seal at the same time.

This was way before text and cell phones.

No way to share answers with those in India, or Brazil.

 

[Andylusion]

Schools want high graduation rates so they pressure teachers to pass everyone. Also a lot of teachers take bribes to pass failing kids. That's why we need to insist that students pass a standardized test like the GED to get that diploma.

Did you just miss the entire problem there? That *WAS* a standardized test the teachers were helping students cheat on.
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Which is why the tests have to be administered and graded by outsiders. You can't let the schools do it because yes, they will cheat.

Good luck with that one.

How exactly do you propose to do this? In 2010, there were roughly 100,000 schools in the US. You want to have standardized testing for every single grade, or just the last one?

And by that point, why bother? If you wait to test them until they are 12th grade, what do you expect the teachers to do at that point? IF they have been passed up for 11 years, and now at 12th grade, what exactly do you think the teachers are going to do? There is no way that a kid with a 3rd grade reading level, is going to pass a 12th grade exam. So you have to kick them out of the system long before then, which means testing every grade.

Standardized Testing Costs States $1.7 Billion a Year, Study Says

Currently administering standardized tests, costs states $1.7 Billion a year. Now you think each state is going to hire hundreds on hundreds of staff to go to each of those schools, and administer the tests?

Lot's of potential phat government jobs in that. Union wages for test pushers, and graders.

And I don't know if you've noticed, but most states don't have tons of spare cash laying around. Who would pay for your system?

Teachers and students could easily hide answers in the class rooms where the tests are administered. Would you demand these students be sent to a central testing facility? And who would pay for that?

Let's even say that you manage to figure out how to completely disconnect the testing from the schools.... which to me seems impossible. But let's pretend: How do you then prevent cheating by the students themselves? Again, it's a standardized test. The student at School A, is going to take the same test as the student at school B. B tells A what's on the test and what the answers are. You plan to have all 100,000 schools across the entire country take the test on the exact same day? Not even remotely practical.

Additionally, you fail to grasp the motivations of the States. At some point, these tests have to pass through the government of the states. You think the governor of Ohio, wants to suddenly have 1/3rd of Ohio students fail the test and end up being held back? Not a chance.

So even if you have testing done by an outside group, it's going to be an outside group that understands the state doesn't want a educational catastrophe on their hands.

This idea that you are going to get government, to voluntarily have some group audit their educational system, without any political influence.... you are crazy.

And lastly, and this is the trump card in all of this.... you keep forgetting that when government is in charge of something, it is in fact politicized, whether you like it or not.

You know, or should know, that if you are actually able to accomplish everything you want, and if the tests are administered, and the testing in conducted by an outside group, and if the rules are enforced, the net result will be a dramatic jump in failures. Thousands of students will end up failing the test and not getting a diploma.

When that happens, the outcry from the public will be massive, and the politicians will change the system, undoing everything you accomplished.

I can already see the head lines "disproportionate number of minorities fail the test. The test is discriminatory".

When the cheating on SAT tests came to light, dozens of parents of students suggested that cheating is normal, and should be expected. Parents actually defended cheating.

A good portion of the public will demand government action to stem students from failing out on this one test. And it will be changed to make the test easier.... thus defeating the entire purpose.

I know you are sold on standardized testing, and clearly you've bought the idea completely.... but I'm telling it, it will never fix this problem. The chances of you even making it work, are slim to none. But if you ever did, the outcry over it would be deafening until it was undone.

The only solution, the only one, is to have a privatized system, where schools compete for reputation, and compete over enrollment. When that happens, and you have system where the quality of the education is the driving factor... not government mandates, not public opinion..... then you will have good education.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The only solution, the only one, is to have a privatized system, where schools compete for reputation, and compete over enrollment. When that happens, and you have system where the quality of the education is the driving factor... not government mandates, not public opinion..... then you will have good education.

You're being silly. I too am for a privatized school system but you are a fool if you think that will guarantee good education. After all, many colleges are private and still do an awful job. If high schools were private, there would still be tons of cheating as the schools strive to make themselves look more successful than they really are.

What needs to be done is a return to segregated schools. As long as blacks and hispanic indios are in our schools, the schools will fail.

 

[Andylusion]

The only solution, the only one, is to have a privatized system, where schools compete for reputation, and compete over enrollment. When that happens, and you have system where the quality of the education is the driving factor... not government mandates, not public opinion..... then you will have good education.

You're being silly. I too am for a privatized school system but you are a fool if you think that will guarantee good education. After all, many colleges are private and still do an awful job. If high schools were private, there would still be tons of cheating as the schools strive to make themselves look more successful than they really are.

What needs to be done is a return to segregated schools. As long as blacks and hispanic indios are in our schools, the schools will fail.

Is the goal a guaranteed good education? Really? You think there is any system in the entire world that 'guarantees' a good education? No such thing. It can't exist.

I'm not even attempting to guarantee anything.

My goal is the best possible outcome, for the most possible people. I'm not going to screw the best trade off, in favor of some screw ball Utopian dream.

Our private colleges are bad? Compared to what? People come from all over the world to attend our private colleges.

There is no indication that private schools would cheat.... UNLESS, the government was threatening to cut funding, just like public schools. If the government treats private schools the same way they treat public schools, you'll have the same result.

But there is no indication from the privatized private schools in Chile, are having a problem with inflated grades.

And the reason is pretty clear. Students and parents, are in favor of getting the best possible education, and thus indications of cheating are reasons to move their kids to a different school.

With public schools they can't. Even if they do move their kids to a private school, the public school still gets their tax money, whether their kids attend the school or not. So there is no incentive either way, to stop cheating.

Even upper-middle class schools have this problem. Our school was considered one of the best in the Columbus Ohio area, and yet I knew exactly which classes had rampant cheating. And no one cared, and no one did anything.

Privatizing will not 'guarantee' anything. But it will result in the best outcome for the most people. If you focus on only the few who do poorly, then no system except one where everyone does equally poorly will be a 'good' system.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

There is no indication that private schools would cheat.... UNLESS, the government was threatening to cut funding, just like public schools.

No indication?? All schools want to say they have a near 100% graduation rate. The private schools will cheat too though not as bad as public schools. I support private schools too but you make a fool of yourself when you say private schools don't cheat.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I can already see the head lines "disproportionate number of minorities fail the test. The test is discriminatory".

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That argument was debunked long ago. If the tests were biased against minorities then asians would have trouble too. As we all know, they do better than whites.

 

[Andylusion]

I can already see the head lines "disproportionate number of minorities fail the test. The test is discriminatory".

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That argument was debunked long ago. If the tests were biased against minorities then asians would have trouble too. As we all know, they do better than whites.

Has truth ever mattered in a democracy? You could say the same thing about a ton of different laws, and that truth has never mattered before.