Brexit busted.

[Phoenall]

Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???

Again there is more heat than light.
Show me some facts rather than your opinion.

H'm. You've no direct reply to offer me at all ? This is the best attempt at a comeback you have to offer ?

Rejecting the electorate's decision to vote in a Conservative Government, one acting as a governing power for Wales (because it IS one) is no proof of any 'love of Britishness', when you make it clear that you want Brussels to govern you, rather than the will of the British people !!!

'Love of Britishness' cannot equate to being far more open and accepting of rule by a foreign power. I note, in fact, that you have no love of being British ? Well, yes. You prove it by being pro-EU.

Quite.

But never mind. You want facts that support my side of this argument. Well, you need to be reminded that I've already posted some. See this link to a previous post ..

Brexit busted.

... and what's posted there.

Now try this ...

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Isn't it high time we stopped the EU from ripping us off, and used the billions we save for the welfare of the BRITISH (in line with your love of the British, eh) ??? Leaving the EU will fit the bill nicely ...

Try considering this outrage ...!! ....

Britain gives up legal sovereignty over European treaty

Britain yesterday surrendered 1,000 years of legal sovereignty in return for a European extradition treaty.

Judges and magistrates across the continent will be given the power to demand the arrest and handover of British citizens simply by naming them as suspects.

The pact sweeps away the right of people in this country to turn to the courts here for defence against charges abroad.

Also brushed aside will be the historic principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and the habeas corpus protection against unjustified imprisonment.

The treaty, being rushed through as part of the war on terror, covers 32 categories ranging from fraud and rape to 'xenophobia' and ' corruption' - offences which are currently not recognised in British law.

Agreement on the European arrest warrant came as the last country standing against it - Italy - backed down. It is now certain to be approved at a weekend EU summit in Belgium.

Tony Blair and British ministers have pushed enthusiastically for the extradition deal. But human rights activists and Eurosceptics have condemned an agreement that will abolish the powers of courts in all EU countries to resist extradition demands for the 32 crimes - beyond checking that warrants have been correctly issued.

Critics point to Greece - the country that has held 12 British planespotters in jail for more than a month on questionable spying charges - as an example of the legal systems to which the Government is handing unprecedented powers over Britons. They say the loss of the ability to challenge extradition in a British court will end the over-riding principle of the court will end the over-riding principle of the presumption of innocence.

Suspects will in effect face examination by a magistrate or judge to whom they must demonstrate their innocence under the Napoleonic code favoured in much of Europe.

Another ancient right to be infringed will be habeas corpus, the right to demand the release of anyone from imprisonment unless a good reason for holding them is demonstrated in court.

I wish you joy in reading into this any evidence that the EU has any 'love of Britishness' ... OR ... that anyone supporting this would have any such regard for us, and our rights .....

OF COURSE we should leave the EU ... & the sooner the better.

You misrepresent me. I would prefer my country to govern itself,within the structure of the EU and benefiting from . membership. All I want from Britain is a good neighbour.

To address your other points.

I dont give a shit about British sovereignty or influence in the world.

You seem to be more concerned about Britains influence in the world which is an intangible but not bothered about jobs and investment.

Companies have set up in the UK to get access to the EU. If we came out they may very well move to Europe. Its not a difficult proposition to understand. We have a fragile economy and we dont need the uncertainty that will follow.

Finally Mrs May has already destroyed habeas corpus with her anti terrorism laws.

Then when are you going to be a good neighbour yourself as it was you lot that decided to be anti English all those years ago

 

[Mindful]

Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???

Again there is more heat than light.
Show me some facts rather than your opinion.

H'm. You've no direct reply to offer me at all ? This is the best attempt at a comeback you have to offer ?

Rejecting the electorate's decision to vote in a Conservative Government, one acting as a governing power for Wales (because it IS one) is no proof of any 'love of Britishness', when you make it clear that you want Brussels to govern you, rather than the will of the British people !!!

'Love of Britishness' cannot equate to being far more open and accepting of rule by a foreign power. I note, in fact, that you have no love of being British ? Well, yes. You prove it by being pro-EU.

Quite.

But never mind. You want facts that support my side of this argument. Well, you need to be reminded that I've already posted some. See this link to a previous post ..

Brexit busted.

... and what's posted there.

Now try this ...

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Isn't it high time we stopped the EU from ripping us off, and used the billions we save for the welfare of the BRITISH (in line with your love of the British, eh) ??? Leaving the EU will fit the bill nicely ...

Try considering this outrage ...!! ....

Britain gives up legal sovereignty over European treaty

Britain yesterday surrendered 1,000 years of legal sovereignty in return for a European extradition treaty.

Judges and magistrates across the continent will be given the power to demand the arrest and handover of British citizens simply by naming them as suspects.

The pact sweeps away the right of people in this country to turn to the courts here for defence against charges abroad.

Also brushed aside will be the historic principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and the habeas corpus protection against unjustified imprisonment.

The treaty, being rushed through as part of the war on terror, covers 32 categories ranging from fraud and rape to 'xenophobia' and ' corruption' - offences which are currently not recognised in British law.

Agreement on the European arrest warrant came as the last country standing against it - Italy - backed down. It is now certain to be approved at a weekend EU summit in Belgium.

Tony Blair and British ministers have pushed enthusiastically for the extradition deal. But human rights activists and Eurosceptics have condemned an agreement that will abolish the powers of courts in all EU countries to resist extradition demands for the 32 crimes - beyond checking that warrants have been correctly issued.

Critics point to Greece - the country that has held 12 British planespotters in jail for more than a month on questionable spying charges - as an example of the legal systems to which the Government is handing unprecedented powers over Britons. They say the loss of the ability to challenge extradition in a British court will end the over-riding principle of the court will end the over-riding principle of the presumption of innocence.

Suspects will in effect face examination by a magistrate or judge to whom they must demonstrate their innocence under the Napoleonic code favoured in much of Europe.

Another ancient right to be infringed will be habeas corpus, the right to demand the release of anyone from imprisonment unless a good reason for holding them is demonstrated in court.

I wish you joy in reading into this any evidence that the EU has any 'love of Britishness' ... OR ... that anyone supporting this would have any such regard for us, and our rights .....

OF COURSE we should leave the EU ... & the sooner the better.

You misrepresent me. I would prefer my country to govern itself,within the structure of the EU and benefiting from . membership. All I want from Britain is a good neighbour.

To address your other points.

I dont give a shit about British sovereignty or influence in the world.

You seem to be more concerned about Britains influence in the world which is an intangible but not bothered about jobs and investment.

Companies have set up in the UK to get access to the EU. If we came out they may very well move to Europe. Its not a difficult proposition to understand. We have a fragile economy and we dont need the uncertainty that will follow.

Finally Mrs May has already destroyed habeas corpus with her anti terrorism laws.

Then when are you going to be a good neighbour yourself as it was you lot that decided to be anti English all those years ago

They don't even speak Welsh in Swansea. Only English.

 

[there4eyeM]

Many French people are saying, "If England wants to go, go! We're tired of making agreements for Europe and then exceptions for England".

 

[Mindful]

Many French people are saying, "If England wants to go, go! We're tired of making agreements for Europe and then exceptions for England".

What exceptions?

It's a French/German show, with client states.

Always has been.

 

[there4eyeM]

Oversimplified, of course, but those two do have the biggest economies and large populations. It is only 'democratic' that they have weight.

 

[Mindful]

Of course.

 

[there4eyeM]

Europe would doubtless run much more efficiently and prosperously if The Two did really run it. French inventiveness and productivity combined with Teutonic energy and productivity would be terrific. But, then dictatorships, too, are so tidy and efficient. Not to be desired, however.

 

[Drummond]

Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???

Again there is more heat than light.
Show me some facts rather than your opinion.

H'm. You've no direct reply to offer me at all ? This is the best attempt at a comeback you have to offer ?

Rejecting the electorate's decision to vote in a Conservative Government, one acting as a governing power for Wales (because it IS one) is no proof of any 'love of Britishness', when you make it clear that you want Brussels to govern you, rather than the will of the British people !!!

'Love of Britishness' cannot equate to being far more open and accepting of rule by a foreign power. I note, in fact, that you have no love of being British ? Well, yes. You prove it by being pro-EU.

Quite.

But never mind. You want facts that support my side of this argument. Well, you need to be reminded that I've already posted some. See this link to a previous post ..

Brexit busted.

... and what's posted there.

Now try this ...

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Isn't it high time we stopped the EU from ripping us off, and used the billions we save for the welfare of the BRITISH (in line with your love of the British, eh) ??? Leaving the EU will fit the bill nicely ...

Try considering this outrage ...!! ....

Britain gives up legal sovereignty over European treaty

Britain yesterday surrendered 1,000 years of legal sovereignty in return for a European extradition treaty.

Judges and magistrates across the continent will be given the power to demand the arrest and handover of British citizens simply by naming them as suspects.

The pact sweeps away the right of people in this country to turn to the courts here for defence against charges abroad.

Also brushed aside will be the historic principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and the habeas corpus protection against unjustified imprisonment.

The treaty, being rushed through as part of the war on terror, covers 32 categories ranging from fraud and rape to 'xenophobia' and ' corruption' - offences which are currently not recognised in British law.

Agreement on the European arrest warrant came as the last country standing against it - Italy - backed down. It is now certain to be approved at a weekend EU summit in Belgium.

Tony Blair and British ministers have pushed enthusiastically for the extradition deal. But human rights activists and Eurosceptics have condemned an agreement that will abolish the powers of courts in all EU countries to resist extradition demands for the 32 crimes - beyond checking that warrants have been correctly issued.

Critics point to Greece - the country that has held 12 British planespotters in jail for more than a month on questionable spying charges - as an example of the legal systems to which the Government is handing unprecedented powers over Britons. They say the loss of the ability to challenge extradition in a British court will end the over-riding principle of the court will end the over-riding principle of the presumption of innocence.

Suspects will in effect face examination by a magistrate or judge to whom they must demonstrate their innocence under the Napoleonic code favoured in much of Europe.

Another ancient right to be infringed will be habeas corpus, the right to demand the release of anyone from imprisonment unless a good reason for holding them is demonstrated in court.

I wish you joy in reading into this any evidence that the EU has any 'love of Britishness' ... OR ... that anyone supporting this would have any such regard for us, and our rights .....

OF COURSE we should leave the EU ... & the sooner the better.

You misrepresent me. I would prefer my country to govern itself,within the structure of the EU and benefiting from . membership. All I want from Britain is a good neighbour.

To address your other points.

I dont give a shit about British sovereignty or influence in the world.

You seem to be more concerned about Britains influence in the world which is an intangible but not bothered about jobs and investment.

Companies have set up in the UK to get access to the EU. If we came out they may very well move to Europe. Its not a difficult proposition to understand. We have a fragile economy and we dont need the uncertainty that will follow.

Finally Mrs May has already destroyed habeas corpus with her anti terrorism laws.

Points:

1. Wales is not independent from the UK. It can only govern itself to a very limited extent, as you must well know. To be its 'own' entity, it'd first have to vote for full independence. If you think that's likely, you're dreaming.

2. IF Wales became 'independent', it'd then have to apply as its own entity for membership of the EU ! And in the unlikely scenario where the EU said 'yes' ....

3. .. then Wales would, again, CEASE to be any independent body ... it'd have to obey all the strictures the EU would insist upon -- which is the exact OPPOSITE of Wales governing itself !! If you want Wales to be tied into the EU, the EU would insist upon having a say in how Wales was run, and it would interfere in any number of ways, just as they do right now, with the UK. So, you are NOT arguing for an 'independent' Wales !!!

4. You have a contempt for British standing in the world, and presumably, therefore, for Britain as a whole. Duly noted - I agree, it explains much.

5. Jobs and investment are likely to be enhanced, once we look to GREATER market opportunities, and can govern our OWN trade deals !! The EU doesn't permit us full latitude to do that.

6. Only a minority of Companies have used the UK as a pipeline to the EU ... a greater majority just trade with us. Isn't it better for the UK to deal with them, as the UK chooses to, without having to worry about EU interference in such deals ???

7. Mrs May is tough on terrorists. The European Court of Human Rights has made decisions proving the opposite .....

 

[Phoenall]

Oversimplified, of course, but those two do have the biggest economies and large populations. It is only 'democratic' that they have weight.

How is it democratic to have unelected eurocrats make decisions based on the neo Marxist principles and dogma for the rest or Europe. The people of Europe should be doing that through their elected representatives. How can the EU say that all member states will hand over 25% of their income to keep afloat other nations that don't want to pay their way.

 

[Phoenall]

Europe would doubtless run much more efficiently and prosperously if The Two did really run it. French inventiveness and productivity combined with Teutonic energy and productivity would be terrific. But, then dictatorships, too, are so tidy and efficient. Not to be desired, however.

Then we would have another European war as the two nations can not tolerate each other

 

[Phoenall]

Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???

Again there is more heat than light.
Show me some facts rather than your opinion.

H'm. You've no direct reply to offer me at all ? This is the best attempt at a comeback you have to offer ?

Rejecting the electorate's decision to vote in a Conservative Government, one acting as a governing power for Wales (because it IS one) is no proof of any 'love of Britishness', when you make it clear that you want Brussels to govern you, rather than the will of the British people !!!

'Love of Britishness' cannot equate to being far more open and accepting of rule by a foreign power. I note, in fact, that you have no love of being British ? Well, yes. You prove it by being pro-EU.

Quite.

But never mind. You want facts that support my side of this argument. Well, you need to be reminded that I've already posted some. See this link to a previous post ..

Brexit busted.

... and what's posted there.

Now try this ...

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Isn't it high time we stopped the EU from ripping us off, and used the billions we save for the welfare of the BRITISH (in line with your love of the British, eh) ??? Leaving the EU will fit the bill nicely ...

Try considering this outrage ...!! ....

Britain gives up legal sovereignty over European treaty

Britain yesterday surrendered 1,000 years of legal sovereignty in return for a European extradition treaty.

Judges and magistrates across the continent will be given the power to demand the arrest and handover of British citizens simply by naming them as suspects.

The pact sweeps away the right of people in this country to turn to the courts here for defence against charges abroad.

Also brushed aside will be the historic principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and the habeas corpus protection against unjustified imprisonment.

The treaty, being rushed through as part of the war on terror, covers 32 categories ranging from fraud and rape to 'xenophobia' and ' corruption' - offences which are currently not recognised in British law.

Agreement on the European arrest warrant came as the last country standing against it - Italy - backed down. It is now certain to be approved at a weekend EU summit in Belgium.

Tony Blair and British ministers have pushed enthusiastically for the extradition deal. But human rights activists and Eurosceptics have condemned an agreement that will abolish the powers of courts in all EU countries to resist extradition demands for the 32 crimes - beyond checking that warrants have been correctly issued.

Critics point to Greece - the country that has held 12 British planespotters in jail for more than a month on questionable spying charges - as an example of the legal systems to which the Government is handing unprecedented powers over Britons. They say the loss of the ability to challenge extradition in a British court will end the over-riding principle of the court will end the over-riding principle of the presumption of innocence.

Suspects will in effect face examination by a magistrate or judge to whom they must demonstrate their innocence under the Napoleonic code favoured in much of Europe.

Another ancient right to be infringed will be habeas corpus, the right to demand the release of anyone from imprisonment unless a good reason for holding them is demonstrated in court.

I wish you joy in reading into this any evidence that the EU has any 'love of Britishness' ... OR ... that anyone supporting this would have any such regard for us, and our rights .....

OF COURSE we should leave the EU ... & the sooner the better.

You misrepresent me. I would prefer my country to govern itself,within the structure of the EU and benefiting from . membership. All I want from Britain is a good neighbour.

To address your other points.

I dont give a shit about British sovereignty or influence in the world.

You seem to be more concerned about Britains influence in the world which is an intangible but not bothered about jobs and investment.

Companies have set up in the UK to get access to the EU. If we came out they may very well move to Europe. Its not a difficult proposition to understand. We have a fragile economy and we dont need the uncertainty that will follow.

Finally Mrs May has already destroyed habeas corpus with her anti terrorism laws.

Points:

1. Wales is not independent from the UK. It can only govern itself to a very limited extent, as you must well know. To be its 'own' entity, it'd first have to vote for full independence. If you think that's likely, you're dreaming.

2. IF Wales became 'independent', it'd then have to apply as its own entity for membership of the EU ! And in the unlikely scenario where the EU said 'yes' ....

3. .. then Wales would, again, CEASE to be any independent body ... it'd have to obey all the strictures the EU would insist upon -- which is the exact OPPOSITE of Wales governing itself !! If you want Wales to be tied into the EU, the EU would insist upon having a say in how Wales was run, and it would interfere in any number of ways, just as they do right now, with the UK. So, you are NOT arguing for an 'independent' Wales !!!

4. You have a contempt for British standing in the world, and presumably, therefore, for Britain as a whole. Duly noted - I agree, it explains much.

5. Jobs and investment are likely to be enhanced, once we look to GREATER market opportunities, and can govern our OWN trade deals !! The EU doesn't permit us full latitude to do that.

6. Only a minority of Companies have used the UK as a pipeline to the EU ... a greater majority just trade with us. Isn't it better for the UK to deal with them, as the UK chooses to, without having to worry about EU interference in such deals ???

7. Mrs May is tough on terrorists. The European Court of Human Rights has made decisions proving the opposite .....

1) The welsh could not afford to govern itself it relies on English taxes too much, it has no GDP of its own to talk of.

2) The EU has already said that it would be hard for the Union to become members without England bing part of the deal.

3) Of course he isn't he is arguing along purely racist lines because the English beat the Welsh and took control.

4) Typical Welsh racism

5) Correct and we wont be hindered by EU rules stopping us from subsidising our industries

6) YES

7) Correct , and also on rapists, murderers and other criminals that use the ECHR as a means to evade punishment. We should do as Germany and France do and deport first and then allow them to contest the deportation

 

[there4eyeM]

Europe would doubtless run much more efficiently and prosperously if The Two did really run it. French inventiveness and productivity combined with Teutonic energy and productivity would be terrific. But, then dictatorships, too, are so tidy and efficient. Not to be desired, however.

Then we would have another European war as the two nations can not tolerate each other

This information is based on what, exactly? How many French have you polled? Or perhaps you have spent time in France and can tell us about attitudes expressed to you.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The ECHR protects all of us and was actually drafted by British lawyers after the second world war.

You misunderstand the basic nature of a human rights bill. It is there to protect EVERYBODY. This means everybody and not just people we approve of.
Ask yourself if you would like to be held for weeks on end without being charged or even being told what you were guilty of.
You wouldnt like it and it is not right that you should be treated that way. But the law that protects you should protect everybody else as well. That is beyond debate.

I will also share with you the thoughts of one of the UKs leading company.
Airbus executives write staff letter warning of Brexit dangers

That is something tangible. Your opinion is not relevant because you do not know. You are selling a La La land idea from the 50s.

You think that you can ban immigrants from the EU when you leave but any trade deal would stipulate freedom of movement. That is what the Swiss had to sign up to.

 

[Drummond]

The ECHR protects all of us and was actually drafted by British lawyers after the second world war.

You misunderstand the basic nature of a human rights bill. It is there to protect EVERYBODY. This means everybody and not just people we approve of.
Ask yourself if you would like to be held for weeks on end without being charged or even being told what you were guilty of.
You wouldnt like it and it is not right that you should be treated that way. But the law that protects you should protect everybody else as well. That is beyond debate.

I will also share with you the thoughts of one of the UKs leading company.
Airbus executives write staff letter warning of Brexit dangers

That is something tangible. Your opinion is not relevant because you do not know. You are selling a La La land idea from the 50s.

You think that you can ban immigrants from the EU when you leave but any trade deal would stipulate freedom of movement. That is what the Swiss had to sign up to.

There's a grain of truth - at minimum - in your first statement. The ECHR is there 'to protect everybody'. That's to say .. their interests.

This includes convicted murderers .. the ECHR cares a lot about them. See ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...grow-to-boycott-toxic-human-rights-court.html

A major revolt against Europe’s influence over British affairs was triggered tonight after judges in Strasbourg ruled that “life means life” sentences given to the most heinous criminals breach their human rights.

The European Court of Human Rights agreed that a “whole life” tariff, which forces murderers to die in jail, was “inhuman and degrading” after an appeal was brought by Jeremy Bamber, who killed five members of his family in 1985.

The court proposed that those serving life with no possibility of parole should have their cases reviewed after 25 years, following which they could be freed.

The decision means that prisoners serving whole life tariffs, including some of Britain’s most notorious killers such as Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper, and Ian Brady, the Moors Murderer, could be granted permission to seek parole.

The ruling prompted a furious reaction from the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and the Justice Secretary. But ministers have no right of appeal against the ruling and the Government has six months to act upon the decision.

David Cameron said that he was “very, very disappointed” and “profoundly disagrees” with the court’s decision.

THIS is the nature of the ECHR's decision-making ... being soft even on serial killers, trash who could certainly be suspected of being a danger to society, if ever released !! And .. IN A WAY THAT INTENDS TO OVERRULE A COUNTRY'S OWN CONCERNS.

What's more, this is no 'la la land' idea from the 1950's. I'm talking about recent history !!!

I'd rather a law be applied over-zealously, than be so watered down - or even overruled ! - by EU interference that justice becomes meaningless, people needlessly threatened by its consequences. Do you understand that, or are your rose-coloured glasses so directed in the EU's favour that you'd forgive them ANY excess ??

I'm glad you mentioned the Swiss. Well spotted ! But let's see what THEY had to take a little more realistically, shall we ?

EU Terrorizes Switzerland Over Vote to Limit Immigration

The European Union is terrorizing voters in Switzerland and threatening retaliation against the tiny nation, which is not in the EU, after the Swiss voted on February 9 to limit immigration in a national referendum. Amid outrageous verbal attacks on the Swiss themselves — senior EU officials have been suggesting that “xenophobia” was behind the vote — out-of-touch European politicians and bureaucrats are even warning that Switzerland could lose its current bilateral access to the “common market” ruled by the emerging super-state in Brussels.

The EU, famous for ignoring the public to impose its will, has already started adopting the “consequences” promised by its apparatchiks. According to news reports, the unaccountable regime just suspended talks with Switzerland on incorporating Swiss utilities into the broader European energy market. “No technical negotiations on the electricity agreement are foreseen between Switzerland and the EU at the moment in light of the new situation,” European Commission spokeswoman Pia Ahrenkilde-Hansen announced to reporters in Brussels on February 11. More pain has been promised.

This is how the EU treats NON-members. With breathtaking, bullying arrogance !!! To ask you a silly question ... do you REALLY want anything to do with people who'll behave so arrogantly ? Who insist upon bending others to its will, whether or not any form of formalised association with them exists ??

Thank you for mentioning the Swiss. Their case is an especially damning one ... against the EU.

 

[Igrok_]

Obama's Brexit message.


We saved your asses in WW2, now do what you are told.

what is the interest of USA in UK remaining in EU?

 

[Phoenall]

Europe would doubtless run much more efficiently and prosperously if The Two did really run it. French inventiveness and productivity combined with Teutonic energy and productivity would be terrific. But, then dictatorships, too, are so tidy and efficient. Not to be desired, however.

Then we would have another European war as the two nations can not tolerate each other

This information is based on what, exactly? How many French have you polled? Or perhaps you have spent time in France and can tell us about attitudes expressed to you.

Common knowledge

 

[Phoenall]

Obama's Brexit message.


We saved your asses in WW2, now do what you are told.

what is the interest of USA in UK remaining in EU?

A ready market to dump goods through the UK

 

[Phoenall]

The ECHR protects all of us and was actually drafted by British lawyers after the second world war.

You misunderstand the basic nature of a human rights bill. It is there to protect EVERYBODY. This means everybody and not just people we approve of.
Ask yourself if you would like to be held for weeks on end without being charged or even being told what you were guilty of.
You wouldnt like it and it is not right that you should be treated that way. But the law that protects you should protect everybody else as well. That is beyond debate.

I will also share with you the thoughts of one of the UKs leading company.
Airbus executives write staff letter warning of Brexit dangers

That is something tangible. Your opinion is not relevant because you do not know. You are selling a La La land idea from the 50s.

You think that you can ban immigrants from the EU when you leave but any trade deal would stipulate freedom of movement. That is what the Swiss had to sign up to.

Isnt that what the neo Marxist labour party proposed when the courts found Griffin innocent of all charges. They wanted to arrest without warrant or due cause anyone that opposed their political views and actions. Then to keep them under lock and key indefinitely.
Once the neo Marxists saw how they could manipulate the ECHR they ran with it all the way, and so we had rapists, murderers and violent thugs given their freedom under European Human Rights laws for such things as a human right to a family life or ties to a pet cat

 

[there4eyeM]

Europe would doubtless run much more efficiently and prosperously if The Two did really run it. French inventiveness and productivity combined with Teutonic energy and productivity would be terrific. But, then dictatorships, too, are so tidy and efficient. Not to be desired, however.

Then we would have another European war as the two nations can not tolerate each other

This information is based on what, exactly? How many French have you polled? Or perhaps you have spent time in France and can tell us about attitudes expressed to you.

Common knowledge

It is a pleasure to report that 'Common' is incorrect.

 

[Drummond]

Obama's Brexit message.


We saved your asses in WW2, now do what you are told.

what is the interest of USA in UK remaining in EU?

I think Obama's following a Leftie globalist agenda .. caring more about the viability of massive power blocs than seeing individual nations remain as independent powers. It says something for Obama's determination to see the UK remain, that he threatens the UK with a threat he personally will be unable to follow up on, and one he cannot know WILL be followed up on, as he's so near the end of his Presidency !!