Brexit busted.

005reaons.png
 
4091-1461592984-e0511211050059c15bde99055a6f33d0.jpg

If we leave the EU we would be at the mercy of the Tories. Too awful to contemplate. Our rights and jobs are better protected in the EU.

H'm. You want EU membership to continue because you're anti-Tory ??

It's an interesting view .. one that, logically, violates respect for UK democracy ? After all, the Conservatives WERE voted in, by the British people, to Government, to, ahem, GOVERN ....

... except that you'd prefer the EU to overrule them, legislatively speaking ??

You offer us what the pro-EU mongers have been indulging in ... an effort at scaremongering, and this based on what's becoming a persistent 'WE DON'T KNOW' mantra. Even 'accepting' the statement ... then, WE DON'T KNOW means you do NOT know.

So, why assume the worst - baselessly so .. ?
 
4091-1461592984-e0511211050059c15bde99055a6f33d0.jpg

If we leave the EU we would be at the mercy of the Tories. Too awful to contemplate. Our rights and jobs are better protected in the EU.

H'm. You want EU membership to continue because you're anti-Tory ??

It's an interesting view .. one that, logically, violates respect for UK democracy ? After all, the Conservatives WERE voted in, by the British people, to Government, to, ahem, GOVERN ....

... except that you'd prefer the EU to overrule them, legislatively speaking ??

You offer us what the pro-EU mongers have been indulging in ... an effort at scaremongering, and this based on what's becoming a persistent 'WE DON'T KNOW' mantra. Even 'accepting' the statement ... then, WE DON'T KNOW means you do NOT know.

So, why assume the worst - baselessly so .. ?
Im not British, I am Welsh and we have never voted for a tory government,
Im not a big fan of these little pictures but fundamentally there are two opposing views on the EU membership.
The outers focus on borders and immigration.
The remain focus on jobs and investment.
It is too big a risk to leave the EU and put jobs at risk.
The biggest employer in North Wales is Airbus and they have written to all their employees, including my family members, with their concerns.
If you can guarantee that there is nothing to worry about I will look at it again but you cant.
 
Last edited:
You seem to be under the illusion that Wales is not a part of the UK ? Does it have no presence in Westminster, no MP's who form part of the balance of power in the House of Commons ? There may be a Welsh Parliament (of sorts) at Cardiff Bay ... but their legislative powers are limited, as I'm sure you know (but would rather you didn't have to acknowledge ?).

Interestingly, you seem to want to shun such a lawful, fully established Governmental power that Westminster DOES legitimately have over Wales. Until Wales achieves full independence from the UK ... and please, tell us all how likely THAT is .. !! .. it seems that instead you want to make sure that the EU renders our UK Government powerless, by continuing to make the inroads it already has.

And, for why ? Because you hate the Tories ?

Here's a question. You evidently don't like acknowledging Westminster's legislative powers over Wales ... BUT ... you wholly welcome the very same thing, from outside these shores entirely, from the European Union ??

You don't see a similarity of status quo there, of legislative process, of one outside power (outside of Wales) being 'OK' to influence Wales, whereas the other 'is not' ... ??

Do I detect double standards at work .. ?
 
You seem to be under the illusion that Wales is not a part of the UK ? Does it have no presence in Westminster, no MP's who form part of the balance of power in the House of Commons ? There may be a Welsh Parliament (of sorts) at Cardiff Bay ... but their legislative powers are limited, as I'm sure you know (but would rather you didn't have to acknowledge ?).

Interestingly, you seem to want to shun such a lawful, fully established Governmental power that Westminster DOES legitimately have over Wales. Until Wales achieves full independence from the UK ... and please, tell us all how likely THAT is .. !! .. it seems that instead you want to make sure that the EU renders our UK Government powerless, by continuing to make the inroads it already has.

And, for why ? Because you hate the Tories ?

Here's a question. You evidently don't like acknowledging Westminster's legislative powers over Wales ... BUT ... you wholly welcome the very same thing, from outside these shores entirely, from the European Union ??

You don't see a similarity of status quo there, of legislative process, of one outside power (outside of Wales) being 'OK' to influence Wales, whereas the other 'is not' ... ??

Do I detect double standards at work .. ?
I feel a lot more confident in Brussels than in Eton. Human rights,employment rights,womens rights are all secured in Europe. The tories want to water these down and replace it with some bogus charter. God knows what that idiot Farago wants but it will probably include sending kids up chimneys.

I notice that you swerve the economic argument. Jobs are safer in the EU and we will attract a lot more investment when this nonsense is settled. However much you dream of a return of empire that doesnt pay the bills.
 
To summarise ... you have chosen your preferred INTERVENTIONIST Governmental power, and you're guided by your personal choice ... you don't like the Tories, so you reject their - WHOLLY LAWFUL - Government, the decisions they take, out of hand. Instead, you choose a source of intervention that is foreign to the UK, and want the Welsh people to be governed by THEM, instead.

You assume a lot about the future the EU would give us - seen through rose coloured spectacles, with no likelihood of future difficulties ? I suggest ... a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

And, to hell with the last UK election, then, which saw the Conservatives elected ? You've no respect for that vote, or the will of UK citizens in choosing what they did ?

You'll only respect democratic process, when it brings you a result that you, personally, approve of ??
 
You seem to be under the illusion that Wales is not a part of the UK ? Does it have no presence in Westminster, no MP's who form part of the balance of power in the House of Commons ? There may be a Welsh Parliament (of sorts) at Cardiff Bay ... but their legislative powers are limited, as I'm sure you know (but would rather you didn't have to acknowledge ?).

Interestingly, you seem to want to shun such a lawful, fully established Governmental power that Westminster DOES legitimately have over Wales. Until Wales achieves full independence from the UK ... and please, tell us all how likely THAT is .. !! .. it seems that instead you want to make sure that the EU renders our UK Government powerless, by continuing to make the inroads it already has.

And, for why ? Because you hate the Tories ?

Here's a question. You evidently don't like acknowledging Westminster's legislative powers over Wales ... BUT ... you wholly welcome the very same thing, from outside these shores entirely, from the European Union ??

You don't see a similarity of status quo there, of legislative process, of one outside power (outside of Wales) being 'OK' to influence Wales, whereas the other 'is not' ... ??

Do I detect double standards at work .. ?
I feel a lot more confident in Brussels than in Eton. Human rights,employment rights,womens rights are all secured in Europe. The tories want to water these down and replace it with some bogus charter. God knows what that idiot Farago wants but it will probably include sending kids up chimneys.

I notice that you swerve the economic argument. Jobs are safer in the EU and we will attract a lot more investment when this nonsense is settled. However much you dream of a return of empire that doesnt pay the bills.

The EU only looks after its own interests. Jobs are as safe as the EU decrees. We have ONE vote only.

Human rights ... TERRORISTS have won 'human rights' for themselves from the EU Court !!

The Conservatives are fed up with EU excesses ... and injustices. IF we exit the EU, then a LAWFUL alternative can be put in place, one terrorists cannot hope to take advantage of !!!!
 
To summarise ... you have chosen your preferred INTERVENTIONIST Governmental power, and you're guided by your personal choice ... you don't like the Tories, so you reject their - WHOLLY LAWFUL - Government, the decisions they take, out of hand. Instead, you choose a source of intervention that is foreign to the UK, and want the Welsh people to be governed by THEM, instead.

You assume a lot about the future the EU would give us - seen through rose coloured spectacles, with no likelihood of future difficulties ? I suggest ... a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

And, to hell with the last UK election, then, which saw the Conservatives elected ? You've no respect for that vote, or the will of UK citizens in choosing what they did ?

You'll only respect democratic process, when it brings you a result that you, personally, approve of ??
Why does my not sharing your love of Britishness threaten you so much ?
We are what we are and I feel Welsh and European.

The arguments you are presenting are wholly emotional and require me to buy into a vision of something that may or may not happen . You are offering me a step in the dark.

How will leaving the EU protect jobs ?
How will it encourage investment ?
How will it protect our public services ?
How will it protect our human rights ?
 
Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???
 
Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???
Again there is more heat than light.
Show me some facts rather than your opinion.
 
Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???
Again there is more heat than light.
Show me some facts rather than your opinion.

H'm. You've no direct reply to offer me at all ? This is the best attempt at a comeback you have to offer ?

Rejecting the electorate's decision to vote in a Conservative Government, one acting as a governing power for Wales (because it IS one) is no proof of any 'love of Britishness', when you make it clear that you want Brussels to govern you, rather than the will of the British people !!!

'Love of Britishness' cannot equate to being far more open and accepting of rule by a foreign power. I note, in fact, that you have no love of being British ? Well, yes. You prove it by being pro-EU.

Quite.

But never mind. You want facts that support my side of this argument. Well, you need to be reminded that I've already posted some. See this link to a previous post ..

Brexit busted.

... and what's posted there.

Now try this ...

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?
Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Isn't it high time we stopped the EU from ripping us off, and used the billions we save for the welfare of the BRITISH (in line with your love of the British, eh) ??? Leaving the EU will fit the bill nicely ...

Try considering this outrage ...!! ....

Britain gives up legal sovereignty over European treaty

Britain yesterday surrendered 1,000 years of legal sovereignty in return for a European extradition treaty.

Judges and magistrates across the continent will be given the power to demand the arrest and handover of British citizens simply by naming them as suspects.

The pact sweeps away the right of people in this country to turn to the courts here for defence against charges abroad.

Also brushed aside will be the historic principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and the habeas corpus protection against unjustified imprisonment.

The treaty, being rushed through as part of the war on terror, covers 32 categories ranging from fraud and rape to 'xenophobia' and ' corruption' - offences which are currently not recognised in British law.

Agreement on the European arrest warrant came as the last country standing against it - Italy - backed down. It is now certain to be approved at a weekend EU summit in Belgium.

Tony Blair and British ministers have pushed enthusiastically for the extradition deal. But human rights activists and Eurosceptics have condemned an agreement that will abolish the powers of courts in all EU countries to resist extradition demands for the 32 crimes - beyond checking that warrants have been correctly issued.

Critics point to Greece - the country that has held 12 British planespotters in jail for more than a month on questionable spying charges - as an example of the legal systems to which the Government is handing unprecedented powers over Britons. They say the loss of the ability to challenge extradition in a British court will end the over-riding principle of the court will end the over-riding principle of the presumption of innocence.

Suspects will in effect face examination by a magistrate or judge to whom they must demonstrate their innocence under the Napoleonic code favoured in much of Europe.

Another ancient right to be infringed will be habeas corpus, the right to demand the release of anyone from imprisonment unless a good reason for holding them is demonstrated in court.

I wish you joy in reading into this any evidence that the EU has any 'love of Britishness' ... OR ... that anyone supporting this would have any such regard for us, and our rights .....

OF COURSE we should leave the EU ... & the sooner the better.
 
Last edited:
I posted this elsewhere. Should have posted it here.

THE SHORTEST QUEUE IN THE WORLD.
By David Vance On April 24th, 2016 at 10:53 pm

During his tour of the UK, in a desperate attempt to prop up the pitiful Cameron, Obama INSISTED that were the UK to leave the EU it would find itself “at the back of the queue of Nations seeking to negotiate Free Trade deals with the USA”

US President Barack Obama warned Britain would be in the “back of the queue” for striking trade deals with the US if it left the EU. Speaking at a joint press conference with David Cameron, Mr Obama said UK voters must decide their own future but their decision could affect US prosperity.

The political and media establishment promptly presented this as a damning indictment of the BREXIT case. Slam dunk.

Except.

Except no one in the media thought to ask just how many other Nations are currently in the queue that Obama would place us at the back of!

The answer is…ZERO.

No Nation is currently in the process of conducting Free Trade deals with the US.

Yes, the EU is trying to seal a deal – but that is not a given and there is vast European opposition to it. EU aside, not ONE Nation is in the queue. So, if we leave the EU, we go to the top of the queue despite Obama’s phoney duplicitous rhetoric, lapped up by our useless media.

There is one more factor that the Media overlooked.



Whether we are at the top of “the queue” or not even in the “queue” we have nothing to fear.







Nor does he realise that trade is a two way street and if he expects to sell American goods in the UK he would then be at the back of the queue for doing so. The US has more to lose when it loses its already lucrative markets in the UK
 


Mega Lolz as my kids say.









We know what it has done very well thank you, we see it every day when another murderer is granted freedom to murder again. Another rapist freed to rape an old woman or a child, another violent thief given the right to attack the weak. Where are the human rights of their victims, or don't we as law abiding victims have any. Is it only the dregs of foreign society that have invaded our nation that have the right to be safe from attack, safe from retribution, safe from punishment and safe from being deported. Even the government appointed leader of the UK arm has stated that it is wrong and has told the truth about the ECHR just recently.
 
Obama’s main point is that EU membership amplifies Britain’s global voice. That…

‘A strong Europe is not a threat to Britain’s global leadership; it enhances Britain’s global leadership.’

This is certainly a new line, and one the Prime Minister doesn’t make – perhaps understandably. Not many in Britain think that we need the EU to add an inch to our shoes on the world stage, or that many countries heed us because our Prime Minister attend Brussels summits. Is the president really saying that Britain is now so remote to him (and America) that we’re seen primarily as an EU member, rather than the world’s fifth-largest economy in possession of one of the world’s fourth-largest largest military? But as Anne Applebaum argues in this week’s magazine, even this may be an exaggeration: a great many Americans, she says, just don’t think about Britain at all.

From The Spectator.
 
I posted this elsewhere. Should have posted it here.

THE SHORTEST QUEUE IN THE WORLD.
By David Vance On April 24th, 2016 at 10:53 pm

During his tour of the UK, in a desperate attempt to prop up the pitiful Cameron, Obama INSISTED that were the UK to leave the EU it would find itself “at the back of the queue of Nations seeking to negotiate Free Trade deals with the USA”

US President Barack Obama warned Britain would be in the “back of the queue” for striking trade deals with the US if it left the EU. Speaking at a joint press conference with David Cameron, Mr Obama said UK voters must decide their own future but their decision could affect US prosperity.

The political and media establishment promptly presented this as a damning indictment of the BREXIT case. Slam dunk.

Except.

Except no one in the media thought to ask just how many other Nations are currently in the queue that Obama would place us at the back of!

The answer is…ZERO.

No Nation is currently in the process of conducting Free Trade deals with the US.

Yes, the EU is trying to seal a deal – but that is not a given and there is vast European opposition to it. EU aside, not ONE Nation is in the queue. So, if we leave the EU, we go to the top of the queue despite Obama’s phoney duplicitous rhetoric, lapped up by our useless media.

There is one more factor that the Media overlooked.



Whether we are at the top of “the queue” or not even in the “queue” we have nothing to fear.







Nor does he realise that trade is a two way street and if he expects to sell American goods in the UK he would then be at the back of the queue for doing so. The US has more to lose when it loses its already lucrative markets in the UK

I re-appraised his public interviews, one with the BBC. And it seems to me that he isn't clear on detail, and contradicts himself.

One minute he says the US wants to trade with one big EU block. The next, by saying the UK would go to the back if the queue, he implies he would deal with individual states.
 


Mega Lolz as my kids say.









We know what it has done very well thank you, we see it every day when another murderer is granted freedom to murder again. Another rapist freed to rape an old woman or a child, another violent thief given the right to attack the weak. Where are the human rights of their victims, or don't we as law abiding victims have any. Is it only the dregs of foreign society that have invaded our nation that have the right to be safe from attack, safe from retribution, safe from punishment and safe from being deported. Even the government appointed leader of the UK arm has stated that it is wrong and has told the truth about the ECHR just recently.

Again you drivel on in a fact free ramble. Give some examples and relate them specifically to the ECHR. I will be back around xmas to see how you are getting on. Thats if the muzzies hvent banned xmas natch.
 
Your 'love of Britishness' involves DISTANCING yourself from the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's nothing of the kind. You'd rather bury your identity within the EU colossus than respect the UK, its Government, its electorate !

Leaving the EU means we look to other markets ... and there's MORE out there, than the EU offers. This means greater trade in prospect, greater prosperity, which will encourage investment. Remember .. being tied into the EU means we are tied into its fortunes. How threatened was EU unity and stability by the Greek financial situation ? Do you think that other worse threats to stability don't exist ? Spain ? Portugal ?

Being dictated to by the EU means that if our public services do well one day, the next, they may not. Our interests would be dictated by people who do NOT put us FIRST.

Since when did a court inclined to be lenient to terrorists, protect human rights ?!?

Leave the EU .. we decide our own fate, our own priorities. Stay in the EU ... we have it all dictated to us. And by a FOREIGN power !!!

Still choosing to ignore, or disregard, the BRITISH electorate, who had the temerity to vote the Conservatives in power .. ???
Again there is more heat than light.
Show me some facts rather than your opinion.

H'm. You've no direct reply to offer me at all ? This is the best attempt at a comeback you have to offer ?

Rejecting the electorate's decision to vote in a Conservative Government, one acting as a governing power for Wales (because it IS one) is no proof of any 'love of Britishness', when you make it clear that you want Brussels to govern you, rather than the will of the British people !!!

'Love of Britishness' cannot equate to being far more open and accepting of rule by a foreign power. I note, in fact, that you have no love of being British ? Well, yes. You prove it by being pro-EU.

Quite.

But never mind. You want facts that support my side of this argument. Well, you need to be reminded that I've already posted some. See this link to a previous post ..

Brexit busted.

... and what's posted there.

Now try this ...

Chart: How much does Britain pay into the EU and what does it get back?
Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

Isn't it high time we stopped the EU from ripping us off, and used the billions we save for the welfare of the BRITISH (in line with your love of the British, eh) ??? Leaving the EU will fit the bill nicely ...

Try considering this outrage ...!! ....

Britain gives up legal sovereignty over European treaty

Britain yesterday surrendered 1,000 years of legal sovereignty in return for a European extradition treaty.

Judges and magistrates across the continent will be given the power to demand the arrest and handover of British citizens simply by naming them as suspects.

The pact sweeps away the right of people in this country to turn to the courts here for defence against charges abroad.

Also brushed aside will be the historic principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and the habeas corpus protection against unjustified imprisonment.

The treaty, being rushed through as part of the war on terror, covers 32 categories ranging from fraud and rape to 'xenophobia' and ' corruption' - offences which are currently not recognised in British law.

Agreement on the European arrest warrant came as the last country standing against it - Italy - backed down. It is now certain to be approved at a weekend EU summit in Belgium.

Tony Blair and British ministers have pushed enthusiastically for the extradition deal. But human rights activists and Eurosceptics have condemned an agreement that will abolish the powers of courts in all EU countries to resist extradition demands for the 32 crimes - beyond checking that warrants have been correctly issued.

Critics point to Greece - the country that has held 12 British planespotters in jail for more than a month on questionable spying charges - as an example of the legal systems to which the Government is handing unprecedented powers over Britons. They say the loss of the ability to challenge extradition in a British court will end the over-riding principle of the court will end the over-riding principle of the presumption of innocence.

Suspects will in effect face examination by a magistrate or judge to whom they must demonstrate their innocence under the Napoleonic code favoured in much of Europe.

Another ancient right to be infringed will be habeas corpus, the right to demand the release of anyone from imprisonment unless a good reason for holding them is demonstrated in court.

I wish you joy in reading into this any evidence that the EU has any 'love of Britishness' ... OR ... that anyone supporting this would have any such regard for us, and our rights .....

OF COURSE we should leave the EU ... & the sooner the better.

You misrepresent me. I would prefer my country to govern itself,within the structure of the EU and benefiting from . membership. All I want from Britain is a good neighbour.

To address your other points.

I dont give a shit about British sovereignty or influence in the world.

You seem to be more concerned about Britains influence in the world which is an intangible but not bothered about jobs and investment.

Companies have set up in the UK to get access to the EU. If we came out they may very well move to Europe. Its not a difficult proposition to understand. We have a fragile economy and we dont need the uncertainty that will follow.

Finally Mrs May has already destroyed habeas corpus with her anti terrorism laws.
 


Mega Lolz as my kids say.









We know what it has done very well thank you, we see it every day when another murderer is granted freedom to murder again. Another rapist freed to rape an old woman or a child, another violent thief given the right to attack the weak. Where are the human rights of their victims, or don't we as law abiding victims have any. Is it only the dregs of foreign society that have invaded our nation that have the right to be safe from attack, safe from retribution, safe from punishment and safe from being deported. Even the government appointed leader of the UK arm has stated that it is wrong and has told the truth about the ECHR just recently.

Again you drivel on in a fact free ramble. Give some examples and relate them specifically to the ECHR. I will be back around xmas to see how you are getting on. Thats if the muzzies hvent banned xmas natch.







Like this



Child rapist used 'human rights' to fight deportation - then struck again
 

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top