BREAKING: FBI May Have Flipped Flynn

[Divine Wind]

Not sure what you are responding to. I didn't say a thing about collecting weapons and giving them to someone. When the shit went down at the consulate, there was a secret CIA house just a few blocks away with able bodied, well-trained armed Americans that could have been sent to help, and they were told to stand down and not help. Why? Why because the U.S. government didn't want to give away the position of their "secret" CIA base of operations... and what was the price? Possibly 4 American lives. I have a problem with that.

Fog of war. I think it was a good call, albeit controversial and a major point the RWs made attacking the Left. You might try reading Sun Tzu's "Art of War" for some enlightenment on the subject of military strategy and tactics. As callous as it may seem, it's better to lose four people than eight or twenty. How many people were in the CIA complex and might have been lost if the station chief had sent his best defenders over to the consulate then found himself under attack, as happened. Let's not forget that only two deaths were at the consulate. The other two were at the CIA annex when it came under attack a few hours later.

Monday-morning quarterbacking is fun and 20/20 Hindsight is always perfect, but it's a lot different in the field under fire. IMHO, the station chief made the correct call.

http://www.puppetpress.com/classics/ArtofWarbySunTzu.pdf

The Art of War by Sun Tzu - Download

Yeah but if they would have sent them before the shit really hit the fan and the bystanders would have seen there was backup, they may have dispersed and things may have never gotten to the level it got to. You can quote what you want, and I'll quote you back, "You NEVER leave a man behind."

Yes, note the phrase "may have". What also "may have" happened is that all of them were killed and, lacking sufficient fighters, the CIA annex was overrun and everyone there was also killed.

You don't know. As for "never leave a man behind", agreed, but this is the middle of a fire fight and maximizing defenses against an enemy of unknown force takes some time to assess. Let's not forget this happened over a few hours, from about 9PM to 4AM. Not a lot of time to make plans.

The main problem with Benghazi, IMHO, is a lack of foresight by the WH. They ordered an operation then supported it on a shoe-string budget. The Bush WH made the same mistake when invading Iraq in 2003. People needlessly lost lives in both cases because 1) they didn't have sufficient people in place and 2) there wasn't proper contingency plan in place. It was a failure of leadership by the WH. The Republicans fucked up by attacking Hillary instead of Obama. My guess is that, by that time, Obama had already won the 2012 election and they were looking at 2016. It was pure Washingtonian bullshit at work, not the best interests of the nation.

 

[Lewdog]

Not sure what you are responding to. I didn't say a thing about collecting weapons and giving them to someone. When the shit went down at the consulate, there was a secret CIA house just a few blocks away with able bodied, well-trained armed Americans that could have been sent to help, and they were told to stand down and not help. Why? Why because the U.S. government didn't want to give away the position of their "secret" CIA base of operations... and what was the price? Possibly 4 American lives. I have a problem with that.

Fog of war. I think it was a good call, albeit controversial and a major point the RWs made attacking the Left. You might try reading Sun Tzu's "Art of War" for some enlightenment on the subject of military strategy and tactics. As callous as it may seem, it's better to lose four people than eight or twenty. How many people were in the CIA complex and might have been lost if the station chief had sent his best defenders over to the consulate then found himself under attack, as happened. Let's not forget that only two deaths were at the consulate. The other two were at the CIA annex when it came under attack a few hours later.

Monday-morning quarterbacking is fun and 20/20 Hindsight is always perfect, but it's a lot different in the field under fire. IMHO, the station chief made the correct call.

http://www.puppetpress.com/classics/ArtofWarbySunTzu.pdf

The Art of War by Sun Tzu - Download

Yeah but if they would have sent them before the shit really hit the fan and the bystanders would have seen there was backup, they may have dispersed and things may have never gotten to the level it got to. You can quote what you want, and I'll quote you back, "You NEVER leave a man behind."

Yes, note the phrase "may have". What also "may have" happened is that all of them were killed and, lacking sufficient fighters, the CIA annex was overrun and everyone there was also killed.

You don't know. As for "never leave a man behind", agreed, but this is the middle of a fire fight and maximizing defenses against an enemy of unknown force takes some time to assess. Let's not forget this happened over a few hours, from about 9PM to 4AM. Not a lot of time to make plans.

The main problem with Benghazi, IMHO, is a lack of foresight by the WH. They ordered an operation then supported it on a shoe-string budget. The Bush WH made the same mistake when invading Iraq in 2003. People needlessly lost lives in both cases because 1) they didn't have sufficient people in place and 2) there wasn't proper contingency plan in place. It was a failure of leadership by the WH. The Republicans fucked up by attacking Hillary instead of Obama. My guess is that, by that time, Obama had already won the 2012 election and they were looking at 2016. It was pure Washingtonian bullshit at work, not the best interests of the nation.

Oh I'm not saying there weren't other factors. Yes, the leader of the Libyan opposition army told Stevens it was getting so bad they could no longer provide support. It was so bad other countries were pulling out their people from embassies and consulates. It was so bad Stevens warned Clinton several times about all this and asked for either more support or to leave. The defense of the consulate was some piss poor private company from Great Britain. But I will, and will always believe that you do what you got to do in order to try and save your fellow countrymen. Odds will not always be on your side, but one of the main things that has been known about American servicemen around the world is they will fight until the end. This has been true through history whether you look at the Alamo, The Revolutionary War, WWI, WWII, or whatever.

So the fact is, if those guys don't leave the CIA base to help you know those people die. If they do who knows what happens?

 

[RASTAMEN]

Funny, but wrong premise. The Russians aren't guilty of "rigging the election". What they are guilty of is hacking the DNC and, probably, the RNC. What they did was try to influence the election by selectively releasing hacked data.

Did it influence the election? I doubt it, but if someone takes a shot at me, even though they missed, I'm going to be pissed.

The RNC was hacked by Russia also.

 

[Divine Wind]

Funny, but wrong premise. The Russians aren't guilty of "rigging the election". What they are guilty of is hacking the DNC and, probably, the RNC. What they did was try to influence the election by selectively releasing hacked data.

Did it influence the election? I doubt it, but if someone takes a shot at me, even though they missed, I'm going to be pissed.

The RNC was hacked by Russia also.

I suspect you are correct, as I stated, but do you have proof?

 

[Divine Wind]

...So the fact is, if those guys don't leave the CIA base to help you know those people die. If they do who knows what happens?

They didn't know two people would die. They knew the consulate had a safe room. They knew the consulate was under attack, but they also knew they could soon come under attack.

No one was left behind. Again, your military expertise seems to be limited to movies. Would you really prefer that every American die that night rather than not render immediate assistance to the consulate?

 

[Lewdog]

...So the fact is, if those guys don't leave the CIA base to help you know those people die. If they do who knows what happens?

They didn't know two people would die. They knew the consulate had a safe room. They knew the consulate was under attack, but they also knew they could soon come under attack.

No one was left behind. Again, your military expertise seems to be limited to movies. Would you really prefer that every American die that night rather than not render immediate assistance to the consulate?

No, and no. You don't know either that every American that night would die. I can with 100% certainty tell you that without help those people would die, and did die, and were lucky MORE people didn't die. You knock me on saying hypotheticals, and then you reply with hypotheticals. Do you even see what you are doing? Or are you just banking that I'll be too ignorant to notice?

 

[RASTAMEN]

Funny, but wrong premise. The Russians aren't guilty of "rigging the election". What they are guilty of is hacking the DNC and, probably, the RNC. What they did was try to influence the election by selectively releasing hacked data.

Did it influence the election? I doubt it, but if someone takes a shot at me, even though they missed, I'm going to be pissed.

The RNC was hacked by Russia also.

I suspect you are correct, as I stated, but do you have proof?

\\
Here's proof.
russia hacked the rnc too - Google Search

 

[Divine Wind]

No, and no. You don't know either that every American that night would die. I can with 100% certainty tell you that without help those people would die, and did die, and were lucky MORE people didn't die. You knock me on saying hypotheticals, and then you reply with hypotheticals. Do you even see what you are doing? Or are you just banking that I'll be too ignorant to notice?

Correct I don't know, but strongly disagree that you know what would have happened. Obviously you have little to no experience in such situations.

Accuse all you like. I'm just saying that Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy, but making those decisions in the middle of a confusing situation is a lot harder. Therefore, a good leader protects his/her people first. Obviously there are limits either way.

 

[Divine Wind]

Funny, but wrong premise. The Russians aren't guilty of "rigging the election". What they are guilty of is hacking the DNC and, probably, the RNC. What they did was try to influence the election by selectively releasing hacked data.

Did it influence the election? I doubt it, but if someone takes a shot at me, even though they missed, I'm going to be pissed.

The RNC was hacked by Russia also.

I suspect you are correct, as I stated, but do you have proof?

\\
Here's proof.
russia hacked the rnc too - Google Search

Thanks, but since the fucking Russians didn't release what they'd hacked, we don't know the extent of their hacking.

Still, we're agreed that the Russians are enemies of the US and hacked both political parties.

 

[Lewdog]

No, and no. You don't know either that every American that night would die. I can with 100% certainty tell you that without help those people would die, and did die, and were lucky MORE people didn't die. You knock me on saying hypotheticals, and then you reply with hypotheticals. Do you even see what you are doing? Or are you just banking that I'll be too ignorant to notice?

Correct I don't know, but strongly disagree that you know what would have happened. Obviously you have little to no experience in such situations.

Accuse all you like. I'm just saying that Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy, but making those decisions in the middle of a confusing situation is a lot harder. Therefore, a good leader protects his/her people first. Obviously there are limits either way.

So if I was in a situation that went south fast and you were my support you'd tuck tail and run because you're about numbers and you'd rather see a few people die than risk more. Got it. Glad I was never really in that situation.

 

[Divine Wind]

So if I was in a situation that went south fast and you were my support you'd tuck tail and run because you're about numbers and you'd rather see a few people die than risk more. Got it. Glad I was never really in that situation.

Incorrect, but your emotionalism and lack of knowledge on leadership, strategy and tactics are all good reasons why people like you are not in charge of defending our nation.

 

[Lewdog]

So if I was in a situation that went south fast and you were my support you'd tuck tail and run because you're about numbers and you'd rather see a few people die than risk more. Got it. Glad I was never really in that situation.

Incorrect, but your emotionalism and lack of knowledge on leadership, strategy and tactics are all good reasons why people like you are not in charge of defending our nation.

Wrong again. You flat out said it. Are you back tracking now? You just said in all intent purposes, "Fuck the lives of a few people if it means putting the lives of more people at risk." Anyone with two cents for a brain can read right through your posts. American history is full of times when Generals, GREAT Leaders made decisions that were against the odds in order to save the lives of fellow soldiers. For someone who is so up on your history, I'd think you'd know that. But you certainly seem to have a selective memory, and you even ignore your own failed arguments like using hypothetical arguments to refute hypothetical arguments that you say aren't any good because they are hypothetical...

People don't become heroes by sitting back and watching their fellow Americans die. Sorry you feel that it is better to know for sure more people won't die, rather than doing something to make sure less people die.

 

[Divine Wind]

Wrong again. You flat out said it. Are you back tracking now? You just said in all intent purposes, "Fuck the lives of a few people if it means putting the lives of more people at risk." Anyone with two cents for a brain can read right through your posts. American history is full of times when Generals, GREAT Leaders made decisions that were against the odds in order to save the lives of fellow soldiers. For someone who is so up on your history, I'd think you'd know that. But you certainly seem to have a selective memory, and you even ignore your own failed arguments like using hypothetical arguments to refute hypothetical arguments that you say aren't any good because they are hypothetical...

People don't become heroes by sitting back and watching their fellow Americans die. Sorry you feel that it is better to know for sure more people won't die, rather than doing something to make sure less people die.

If I "flat out said it" then why do you have to put words in my mouth with a lie?: "Fuck the lives of a few people if it means putting the lives of more people at risk."

Now you know why I think of you as a kid. I tried to converse with you as equal adults, but then you started telling lies about what I've posted. You are free to be as emotional as you like, but the fact remains it's people who deal with cold, hard facts who save lives. It's people like you who cost them. Why didn't President Obama give them more support before 9/11/12? Why are you shitting on me and lying about me when it was the Obama administration who left those Americans hanging out in the wind?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Per Seth Abramson:

Seth Abramson on Twitter


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Yeah -- the former Chief Spy for the Pentagon wasn't "vetted enough". He was the fucking head of DefenseIntelAgency. He's not dirty. Doesn't NEED to get "flipped". Just circle the part about this lefty wet dream coming from CNN.. The news agency that's in a complete hissy-fit, blue faced, melt-down mode.

Yes, Flynn was so smart from his time in the business he forgot that the CIA regularly monitors the phone calls of the Russian Ambassador and would get caught talking to him on tape...

He had NO EXPECTATION of being spied on for talking to a Russian Ambassador. As former Head of DIA -- he KNOWS how he got spied on. And what the rules were.

Seriously, how many fucking times does this have to be said? The U.S. REGULARLY listens in on foreign ambassador's conversations... and Flynn KNEW they did this. HE WASN'T SPIED ON. HE CALLED SOMEONE HE KNEW THE U.S. LISTENS IN ON! He's a fucking idiot that got fired for being incompetent. His son got fired for tweeting fake new conspiracy theories.

Can you even read ?

 

[Lewdog]

Wrong again. You flat out said it. Are you back tracking now? You just said in all intent purposes, "Fuck the lives of a few people if it means putting the lives of more people at risk." Anyone with two cents for a brain can read right through your posts. American history is full of times when Generals, GREAT Leaders made decisions that were against the odds in order to save the lives of fellow soldiers. For someone who is so up on your history, I'd think you'd know that. But you certainly seem to have a selective memory, and you even ignore your own failed arguments like using hypothetical arguments to refute hypothetical arguments that you say aren't any good because they are hypothetical...

People don't become heroes by sitting back and watching their fellow Americans die. Sorry you feel that it is better to know for sure more people won't die, rather than doing something to make sure less people die.

If I "flat out said it" then why do you have to put words in my mouth with a lie?: "Fuck the lives of a few people if it means putting the lives of more people at risk."

Now you know why I think of you as a kid. I tried to converse with you as equal adults, but then you started telling lies about what I've posted. You are free to be as emotional as you like, but the fact remains it's people who deal with cold, hard facts who save lives. It's people like you who cost them. Why didn't President Obama give them more support before 9/11/12? Why are you shitting on me and lying about me when it was the Obama administration who left those Americans hanging out in the wind?

You are saying I am lying about what you are saying and then lying about what I said. I flat out said in a previous post all the other factors that went along with the disaster in Benghazi including the fact that the security hired for the consulate was some no name private firm from Great Britain. You're a trip man. Really. I don't need to sum up the things you've said here for others, because as I said, most people with any bit of brain matter can read it for themselves.

And I'll reiterate, I'm glad I never had to worry about you having my back, because with you it's about numbers, not lives.

 

[Divine Wind]

....I don't need to sum up the things you've said here for others, because as I said, most people with any bit of brain matter can read it for themselves...

Yes, sir. That is something we can agree upon.

 

[Lewdog]

Per Seth Abramson:

Seth Abramson on Twitter


View attachment 118624

View attachment 118625
View attachment 118626

Yeah -- the former Chief Spy for the Pentagon wasn't "vetted enough". He was the fucking head of DefenseIntelAgency. He's not dirty. Doesn't NEED to get "flipped". Just circle the part about this lefty wet dream coming from CNN.. The news agency that's in a complete hissy-fit, blue faced, melt-down mode.

Yes, Flynn was so smart from his time in the business he forgot that the CIA regularly monitors the phone calls of the Russian Ambassador and would get caught talking to him on tape...

He had NO EXPECTATION of being spied on for talking to a Russian Ambassador. As former Head of DIA -- he KNOWS how he got spied on. And what the rules were.

Seriously, how many fucking times does this have to be said? The U.S. REGULARLY listens in on foreign ambassador's conversations... and Flynn KNEW they did this. HE WASN'T SPIED ON. HE CALLED SOMEONE HE KNEW THE U.S. LISTENS IN ON! He's a fucking idiot that got fired for being incompetent. His son got fired for tweeting fake new conspiracy theories.

Can you even read ?

Are you serious? Are you still one of these dumb fucks that are arguing after months that people were actually tapping Flynn and not the Russians he was calling?

Let me share a couple smart things my Grandmother used to always tell me. First, "You are the company you keep." Then should would also say, "If you don't want to get covered in shit don't play around in the pig sty." Flynn obviously was never told any of that, and it bit him in the ass like it should.

 

[Lewdog]

....I don't need to sum up the things you've said here for others, because as I said, most people with any bit of brain matter can read it for themselves...

Yes, sir. That is something we can agree upon.

And of course you edit my post to make my quote out of context. How honorable of you.

 

[JoeB131]

Really? How so? Can you explain what the CIA annex was doing there? Can you explain why an Ambassador of the United States was at a consulate in a known hostile city on the anniversary of 9/11 instead of in the safer haven of the Tripoli embassy?

He was there because he arrogantly thought the Libyan people loved him. That's why he was there. But no one is ever going to criticize Stevens bad judgement because he was killed in the line of duty.

As far as what the CIA was doing there, the same thing they are doing everywhere. fucking things up.

 

[JoeB131]

Please quote a single post where I claimed this "70 million dollar panty-sniffing investigation" was a win.

When you keep trying to claim that Clinton giving up a law license he wasn't using somehow vindicated a 70 million dollar witch hunt. Not to mention all the other lives Ken Starr ruined.

Partisan politics on both sides has split our nation. Yes, I think the Republicans are worse if for no other reason than they attack their own by calling them "RINOs" whereas the Democrats don't do that, but that doesn't absolve the Democrats from partisan partisan politics, corruption or cronyism because they are certainly guilty of that.

No, what makes the Republicans worse is their unwillingness to comprimise. That they vote against things they previously supported because the Black Guy suggested them as a compromise. That they truly enjoy the idea of cutting benefits for working people to give them to rich people.

But go ahead and whine about "Corruption" because 20 years ago, Bill Clinton lied about getting a blow job.