Birth Control Mandate: Is this taking the Religous Liberty Exception too far?

[Uncensored2008]

Not physically, but mentally they are.....

Force?

You're not expecting anyone to take you seriously, I hope.....

 

[dblack]

The Catholic church does not force them to eschew contraception.

Not physically, but mentally they are.....

What? The Church employs 'The Force'???

No, 'mentally', they are not forced to do anything. Mentally, they can decide to use birth control whenever they feel like it, and the only the thing the Church can do in response is refuse to associate with them. They have no legal power to coerce them in any way - and if they'd tried, I'd be right there with you raising hell.

I guess it all comes back to this growing trend whereby people can't distinguish between harming someone, and simply choosing not to help them. It's a rationalization behind so many authoritarian policies and it's killing freedom in this country.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What? The Church employs 'The Force'???

No, 'mentally', they are not forced to do anything. Mentally, they can decide to use birth control whenever they feel like it, and the only the thing the Church can do in response is refuse to associate with them. They have no legal power to coerce them in any way - and if they'd tried, I'd be right there with you raising hell.

I guess it all comes back to this growing trend whereby people can't distinguish between harming someone, and simply choosing not to help them. It's a rationalization behind so many authoritarian policies and it's killing freedom in this country.

What is hilarious, is another leftist was just citing a stat that 98% of Catholics use contraception.

Uh, that's some pretty ineffective "force..."

 

[Shaarona]

A waste of money on litigation the Catholics could be using to help the poor.

I agree.

Most Catholics today use birth control.. and they should have the right to BC like everyone else.

Not to use BC is a personal choice... and certainly their right.

 

[paperview]

That second sentence there shows you are misinformed.

In what way?

I've seen no one object to birth control? I've openly stated that I am a supporter of it.

The issue here is one of liberty - you say that the state has the right to dictate to a religious institution that they violate their own doctrine and provide contraception. This is in direct violation of the 1st amendment - so those of us in favor of civil liberty object. The democrats are engaged in a war to end civil liberty, so naturally, you do not object.

No, I don't say that.

You're making things up again.

 

[paperview]

The Catholic church does not force them to eschew contraception.

The government is attempting to force the church to provide them.

I love it when an illiterate know-nothing tells me I'm misinformed.

That second sentence there shows you are misinformed.

What do you think "mandate" means?

"To the nuns, their view is they're just not allowed to sign what are essentially permission slips for these kinds of products. They just need to be out of the system. But the government won't let them out and threatens massive fines against them if they don't sign the forms."

DOJ Expected To Defend Health Law's Contraceptive Mandate : NPR

"That coverage includes services such as mammograms, prenatal care and cervical cancer screenings, but it also mandates free contraceptives, sterilizations and abortion-inducing drugs — which are contrary to Catholic teaching.

"The mandate does not include a conscience clause for employers who object to such coverage on moral grounds.
Under final rules issued in June to implement the mandate, there is an exemption for some religious employers that fit its criteria. For those employers who do not fit the criteria but still object to providing the coverage, the rules cover an accommodation — using a third party to provide the contraceptive coverage they find objectionable to employees.
But Catholic entities, including those in the New York Archdiocese and Rockville Centre Diocese, say the exemption is too narrowly drawn and the accommodation still does not solve their problem over being involved in providing coverage they reject for moral reasons."

".... the third-party accommodation compels the Catholic plaintiffs “to perform acts that are contrary to their religion. And there can be no doubt that the coercive pressure here is substantial. If plaintiffs do not comply with the mandate, they are subject to fines of $100 per day per affected beneficiary.”"
Judge says employer objections to HHS mandate based on religious rights - Catholic Philly

<shaking my head>

I'm so tired of repeating myself. It's obvious you are incorrigible.

 

[Mertex]

Not physically, but mentally they are.....

Force?

You're not expecting anyone to take you seriously, I hope.....

I don't expect you to take me seriously, no, you've already proven that you are unable to grasp common knowledge.

 

[dblack]

A waste of money on litigation the Catholics could be using to help the poor.

I agree.

Most Catholics today use birth control.. and they should have the right to BC like everyone else.

Not to use BC is a personal choice... and certainly their right.

Do you understand that their right to use birth control has nothing to due with the Catholic Church? The church has no power to take away their rights.

 

[Shaarona]

A waste of money on litigation the Catholics could be using to help the poor.

I agree.

Most Catholics today use birth control.. and they should have the right to BC like everyone else.

Not to use BC is a personal choice... and certainly their right.

Do you understand that their right to use birth control has nothing to due with the Catholic Church? The church has no power to take away their rights.

Yes.. I agree.. So why shouldn't it be available to all citizens regardless of creed?

 

[koshergrl]

It is available. Nobody has said it shouldn't be available.

The complaint is that they're being forced to PROVIDE it. Or hook up their employees with someone who will.

 

[Vox]

I agree.

Most Catholics today use birth control.. and they should have the right to BC like everyone else.

Not to use BC is a personal choice... and certainly their right.

Do you understand that their right to use birth control has nothing to due with the Catholic Church? The church has no power to take away their rights.

Yes.. I agree.. So why shouldn't it be available to all citizens regardless of creed?

It is available - go and BUY it.

Why should people pay for YOUR life choices?

 

[Vox]

What? The Church employs 'The Force'???

No, 'mentally', they are not forced to do anything. Mentally, they can decide to use birth control whenever they feel like it, and the only the thing the Church can do in response is refuse to associate with them. They have no legal power to coerce them in any way - and if they'd tried, I'd be right there with you raising hell.

I guess it all comes back to this growing trend whereby people can't distinguish between harming someone, and simply choosing not to help them. It's a rationalization behind so many authoritarian policies and it's killing freedom in this country.

What is hilarious, is another leftist was just citing a stat that 98% of Catholics use contraception.

Uh, that's some pretty ineffective "force..."

except that stat is a lie.

even 98% of feminists do not use contraception.

anybody who understands the basics of the statistics knows that it is absolutely ignorant to state such a thing

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, I don't say that.

You're making things up again.

That is what this entire thread is about.

The church is exempt IF they sign a waiver making them non-exempt in a catch-22 clusterfuck.

"Father, if you sign this waiver, we won't take money from your left pocket to give nuns abortions."


(We'll take it from your right pocket instead....)

The left is convinced that everyone is too stupid to catch on to the games you play, then are incensed when we do.

 

[koshergrl]

They're exempt if they agree to find someone else to provide their employees with contraception, including abortificaents. So they're still being forced to provide a service that flies in the face of their faith.

 

[oreo]

What? The Church employs 'The Force'???

No, 'mentally', they are not forced to do anything. Mentally, they can decide to use birth control whenever they feel like it, and the only the thing the Church can do in response is refuse to associate with them. They have no legal power to coerce them in any way - and if they'd tried, I'd be right there with you raising hell.

I guess it all comes back to this growing trend whereby people can't distinguish between harming someone, and simply choosing not to help them. It's a rationalization behind so many authoritarian policies and it's killing freedom in this country.

What is hilarious, is another leftist was just citing a stat that 98% of Catholics use contraception.

Uh, that's some pretty ineffective "force..."

except that stat is a lie.

even 98% of feminists do not use contraception.

anybody who understands the basics of the statistics knows that it is absolutely ignorant to state such a thing

No it's you that's full of it. It is true that over 90% of women Catholic church members do in fact use birth control contraceptives. Otherwise we would have a population that looks like China. You look at any Catholic family today, the majority of which only have one to two kids compared to 100 years ago--where they averaged 9 to 10 kids per Catholic family. It's not that they have given up on sex--lol

Even in Mexico--a predominately Catholic country--they're advertising birth control on television--and have been doing so for many years.

The entire point is that there are 22 states in this country that have mandated for decades that there is no religious exemption for birth control contraceptives. Including the state of Colorado--where the Little Sisters of the Poor is based.

Colo. Rev. Stat> 10-16-104 (2010) requires specified health insurance plans to provide coverage for contraception in the same manner as any other sickness, injury, disease, or condition is otherwise covered under the policy or contract. (2010 HB 1021)

Insurance Coverage for Contraception State Laws

 

[koshergrl]

China has mandated abortion. We'll look like China when we start dragging women out into the street and forcibly aborting them...like the Obamaloons want to.

We'll look like China when the state persecutes the Catholic church...

Oh, snap!


"On Nov. 15th Pastor Zhang Shaojie and nearly two dozen of his church members were arrested by police in Henan Province.....the arrest of house church Christians in China is fairly common."

http://www.persecution.org/2013/12/02/persecuted-church-in-central-china-appeals-for-help/

Sounds like the Christians in China are arrested for failing to meet governmental mandates leveled against them, hmm?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't expect you to take me seriously, no, you've already proven that you are unable to grasp common knowledge.

That which you recite from the leftist hate sites is neither common, nor knowledge.

 

[koshergrl]

Nor true.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No it's you that's full of it. It is true that over 90% of women Catholic church members do in fact use birth control contraceptives.

I'm sure that the fact that only about 50% of Catholic women are in child bearing years doesn't alter that....

I assume this astounding "fact" came from "Planned Parenthood's Gutmacher," right?

 

[oreo]

China has mandated abortion. We'll look like China when we start dragging women out into the street and forcibly aborting them...like the Obamaloons want to.

We'll look like China when the state persecutes the Catholic church...

Oh, snap!


"On Nov. 15th Pastor Zhang Shaojie and nearly two dozen of his church members were arrested by police in Henan Province.....the arrest of house church Christians in China is fairly common."

Persecuted Church in Central China Appeals for Help « Persecution News

Sounds like the Christians in China are arrested for failing to meet governmental mandates leveled against them, hmm?

So then I take it your preference is to abort babies versus taking a pill? hmmm. Kind of strange don't you think?

The point is we control our population by using birth control devices. Otherwise we would revel the population of China and then be forced to mandate abortions. Is that what you want?