Birth Control Mandate: Is this taking the Religous Liberty Exception too far?

[paperview]

did you actually read the article?

it makes laugh at guttmacher and for good reason:

In other words, a woman may have sex only once, or she may have had a partner who only used a condom once, and then she would be placed in the 98 percent category. Jones said the correct way to describe the results of the research is this:

“Data shows that 98 percent of sexually experienced women of child-bearing age and who identify themselves as Catholic have used a method of contraception other than natural family planning at some point in their lives.”

As she pointed out, “In social science circles, sexually active means you had sex recently. Sexually experienced means you’ve had sex at least once.” The full NSFG survey (table 5) shows that 86.8 percent of women ages 15-44 have had vaginal intercourse.

if a statistic sounds too good to be true, be wary. A spokesman for Pelosi said she was saying that 98 percent of Catholic women have used birth control at some point in their lives — because that is how the media characterized it.

But, judging from the examples above, the media has gotten it wrong. The journalistic shorthand has been that “98 percent of American Catholic women have used contraception in their lifetimes.” But that is incorrect, according to the research.

“The shorthand is not what our statistic shows since we only looked at women aged 15-44 who have ever had sex,” Jones said.

The Pinocchio Test -Two Pinocchios

Jake - it would be highly advisable to read your own link - it proves what I was saying all along - 98% is a made up figure and the whole guttmacher "study" is a LIE

Hey noodlehead, you should take your own advice. The two Pinocchio's are to the media.

You went for the shorthand scribble and missed the longhand.

exactly. because the media reported the idiocy of 98% of Catholic women use the contraceptive method - which is a LIE

But Jake's comment as he posted it was not:

Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey

No, you don't. The claim that 98 percent of Catholic women use contraception: a media foul - The Washington Post

The %, if you read the reports on the survey and the documentation, places the figure between 89% and 98%.

Also, too:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...house-official-says-98-catholic-women-have-u/

 

[oreo]

Ironically--the "Little Sisters of the Poor" are located in Denver, CO and for years now--if they insured their employees--they would have been mandated by the State of Colorado to pay for birth control contraceptives.

Colorado gives no religious exemptions on birth control contraceptives.

Colorado Rev. Statute 10-16-104 2010) requires specified health insurance plans to provide coverage for contraception in the same manner as any other sickness, injury, disease, or condition is otherwise covered under the policy or contract. (2010 HB 1021)

Insurance Coverage for Contraception State Laws

Of course on the above link you can also see what your state mandate is regarding religious exemption.

 

[Stephanie]

Well they are asking this about birth control and religious liberty

Then we need to start pushing abortions have too much liberty and should be BANNED altogether

see how they like that one

 

[koshergrl]

nothing form motherjones, only guttmacher?

I am disappointed. motherjones would say 104%

I'm not surprised that you don't have rebuttal. Whose the liar now?

you provided nothing deserving rebuttal.


any more lies to prove?

next.

Tell me about it. I love it when these loons screech "You didn't rebutt my statement!" they don't seem to understand that they have to actually have made a point before a rebuttal is possible.

 

[paperview]

Ironically--the "Little Sisters of the Poor" are located in Denver, CO and for years now--if they insured their employees--they would have been mandated by the State of Colorado to pay for birth control contraceptives.

Colorado gives no religious exemptions on birth control contraceptives.

Colorado Rev. Statute 10-16-104 2010) requires specified health insurance plans to provide coverage for contraception in the same manner as any other sickness, injury, disease, or condition is otherwise covered under the policy or contract. (2010 HB 1021)

Insurance Coverage for Contraception State Laws

Of course on the above link you can also see what your state mandate is regarding religious exemption.

First, it's not just the Little Sisters in Colorado, it's all the Little Sisters orgs in 40 states, plus the Christian Bros Trust that also joined the suit.

This was covered earlier.

In states that have contraception coverage laws, if the non-profit companies are self-insured (in this case they are) and have ERISA plans, they are exempt from those State laws.

From the link I provided earlier:

"The government has an additional argument, one that it says applies specifically to the Little Sisters situation: another federal law, the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, bars any government regulation of an employee benefit plan run by a church. That provision is incorporated into the ACA, and the plan administrator for the Little Sisters organization has no legal duty to provide the services at all, and, indeed, the Christian Brothers entity has indicated it will not do so. There is no way to compel it to do otherwise, the government says"
Analysis: The Little Sisters case and EBSA Form 700 : SCOTUSblog

 

[orogenicman]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.

And it is an extremely discriminatory mandate - not only on religious grounds, but it is a perfect example of gender discrimination. If it should be covered for women, why shouldn't it be covered for men?

Oh really? STD prevention has nothing to do with healthcare? In what alternate reality?

 

[koshergrl]

We're concerned about the sisters and their STD issue?

Give me a fucking break.

 

[Katzndogz]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.

And it is an extremely discriminatory mandate - not only on religious grounds, but it is a perfect example of gender discrimination. If it should be covered for women, why shouldn't it be covered for men?

Oh really? STD prevention has nothing to do with healthcare? In what alternate reality?

Birth control has little, if anything to do with STD prevention.

 

[koshergrl]

If birth control did prevent stds, we wouldn't have the rampant, treatment resistant, and wildly out of control std rate we do now.

Apparently abortion and contraception CAUSE stds and unwanted pregnancy. I mean, that's what the stats show....it makes me laugh everytime a backward leftwad claims abortion, sex ed and free contraceptives improve the health of our sexually active population. Obviously, that's not true:

"The HIV infection rate for heterosexual African American women in the District’s poorest neighborhoods nearly doubled in two years, from 6.3 percent to 12.1 percent, according to a study released Wednesday by the D.C. Department of Health."

Apparently free abortions and contraceptives increase the likelihood of contracting an STD. Just sayin...them facts are pesky critters.

 

[Mertex]

nothing form motherjones, only guttmacher?

I am disappointed. motherjones would say 104%

I'm not surprised that you don't have rebuttal. Whose the liar now?

you provided nothing deserving rebuttal.


any more lies to prove?

next.

Oh, so you didn't understand it? I get it.....

 

[Mertex]

Unlike government, the Church has exactly no power to coerce anyone. Do you understand what free means in a political context?

Except that the Catholic Church considers it a sin, and Catholic women who are religious are made to feel that they are sinning if they take contraceptives. That 98% of the Catholic women take contraceptives does not negate the fact that the church is still against it.

So, what is your point?

stop lying.

you have no proof on 98%

Quit posting your redundant dribble....we know you don't comprehend, you shouldn't even try and get into these conversations.....they are way over your head.

 

[Mertex]

Just that kg's point holds. Catholic women are free to use birth control.

Anything that has to be done in secret or makes a person feel like they are violating their faith is not "freedom." If that was the case, the Catholic Church wouldn't be making such a big deal out of it, since they don't have to pay for it.
If you want to consider that as "freedom," you are as uninformed as kg.

I'm sorry. If you don't understand the difference between coercion an religious prohibition, then we simply have fundamentally different conceptions of "freedom". In our country, religious taboos don't carry the weight of law.

Yes we do, you believe in an imaginary and deceptive freedom where you have to keep what you do under cover and go against the very faith that you believe is true in other things.....

I believe in "real" freedom, where I can do what I choose (under the law) without having to lie to myself and others about things that my church claims to be sinful.

 

[dblack]

Anything that has to be done in secret or makes a person feel like they are violating their faith is not "freedom." If that was the case, the Catholic Church wouldn't be making such a big deal out of it, since they don't have to pay for it.
If you want to consider that as "freedom," you are as uninformed as kg.

I'm sorry. If you don't understand the difference between coercion an religious prohibition, then we simply have fundamentally different conceptions of "freedom". In our country, religious taboos don't carry the weight of law.

Yes we do, you believe in an imaginary and deceptive freedom where you have to keep what you do under cover and go against the very faith that you believe is true in other things.....

I believe in "real" freedom, where I can do what I choose (under the law) without having to lie to myself and others about things that my church claims to be sinful.

Call it what you like, but any conception of freedom that doesn't recognize the difference between voluntary association and coercion is delusional. What you want is control over others - the power to force your preferences on those who don't agree with you. That's the opposite of what I call freedom.

 

[Mertex]

If birth control did prevent stds, we wouldn't have the rampant, treatment resistant, and wildly out of control std rate we do now.

Apparently abortion and contraception CAUSE stds and unwanted pregnancy. I mean, that's what the stats show....it makes me laugh everytime a backward leftwad claims abortion, sex ed and free contraceptives improve the health of our sexually active population. Obviously, that's not true:

"The HIV infection rate for heterosexual African American women in the District’s poorest neighborhoods nearly doubled in two years, from 6.3 percent to 12.1 percent, according to a study released Wednesday by the D.C. Department of Health."

Apparently free abortions and contraceptives increase the likelihood of contracting an STD. Just sayin...them facts are pesky critters.

Harbor Vista Current Image

Ha,ha, you're so uninformed....here you are, arguing that Obamacare is violating the Catholics stance on contraceptives and at the same time arguing that Catholic women are free to take them.......then why worry about it.....it has already been established that the Catholic Church won't have to pay for them.......confused much?

 

[koshergrl]

The Catholic church does not force them to eschew contraception.

The government is attempting to force the church to provide them.

I love it when an illiterate know-nothing tells me I'm misinformed.

 

[Vox]

If birth control did prevent stds, we wouldn't have the rampant, treatment resistant, and wildly out of control std rate we do now.

Apparently abortion and contraception CAUSE stds and unwanted pregnancy. I mean, that's what the stats show....it makes me laugh everytime a backward leftwad claims abortion, sex ed and free contraceptives improve the health of our sexually active population. Obviously, that's not true:

"The HIV infection rate for heterosexual African American women in the District’s poorest neighborhoods nearly doubled in two years, from 6.3 percent to 12.1 percent, according to a study released Wednesday by the D.C. Department of Health."

Apparently free abortions and contraceptives increase the likelihood of contracting an STD. Just sayin...them facts are pesky critters.

Harbor Vista Current Image

Ha,ha, you're so uninformed....here you are, arguing that Obamacare is violating the Catholics stance on contraceptives and at the same time arguing that Catholic women are free to take them.......then why worry about it.....it has already been established that the Catholic Church won't have to pay for them.......confused much?

It is YOU who is uninformed.

If you do not understand that a figure of "98% women taking birth control" of ANY, even feminist category of women is not possible by deafault, you are not only grossly uninformed but lack basic understanding how statistics work altogether

typical low information voter

 

[paperview]

The Catholic church does not force them to eschew contraception.

The government is attempting to force the church to provide them.

I love it when an illiterate know-nothing tells me I'm misinformed.

That second sentence there shows you are misinformed.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That second sentence there shows you are misinformed.

In what way?

I've seen no one object to birth control? I've openly stated that I am a supporter of it.

The issue here is one of liberty - you say that the state has the right to dictate to a religious institution that they violate their own doctrine and provide contraception. This is in direct violation of the 1st amendment - so those of us in favor of civil liberty object. The democrats are engaged in a war to end civil liberty, so naturally, you do not object.

 

[Mertex]

The Catholic church does not force them to eschew contraception.

Not physically, but mentally they are.....

The government is attempting to force the church to provide them.

No, you are so behind, it's hilarious.

The so-called "contraception mandate," which went into effect on Aug. 1, 2012, requires most employers to cover birth control for their female employees at no additional cost. Houses of worship are exempt from the rule, and religiously affiliated organizations that are not churches, such as schools and hospitals, are allowed to opt out of directly paying for contraception coverage. The cost of coverage, in those cases, would be shifted to the insurer.

I love it when an illiterate know-nothing tells me I'm misinformed.

You're the know-nothing, ergo, illiterate or just plain happy to be ignorant.

 

[koshergrl]

The Catholic church does not force them to eschew contraception.

The government is attempting to force the church to provide them.

I love it when an illiterate know-nothing tells me I'm misinformed.

That second sentence there shows you are misinformed.

What do you think "mandate" means?

"To the nuns, their view is they're just not allowed to sign what are essentially permission slips for these kinds of products. They just need to be out of the system. But the government won't let them out and threatens massive fines against them if they don't sign the forms."

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/03/259279509/doj-expected-to-defend-health-laws-contraceptive-mandate

"That coverage includes services such as mammograms, prenatal care and cervical cancer screenings, but it also mandates free contraceptives, sterilizations and abortion-inducing drugs — which are contrary to Catholic teaching.

"The mandate does not include a conscience clause for employers who object to such coverage on moral grounds.
Under final rules issued in June to implement the mandate, there is an exemption for some religious employers that fit its criteria. For those employers who do not fit the criteria but still object to providing the coverage, the rules cover an accommodation — using a third party to provide the contraceptive coverage they find objectionable to employees.
But Catholic entities, including those in the New York Archdiocese and Rockville Centre Diocese, say the exemption is too narrowly drawn and the accommodation still does not solve their problem over being involved in providing coverage they reject for moral reasons."

".... the third-party accommodation compels the Catholic plaintiffs “to perform acts that are contrary to their religion. And there can be no doubt that the coercive pressure here is substantial. If plaintiffs do not comply with the mandate, they are subject to fines of $100 per day per affected beneficiary.”"
http://catholicphilly.com/2013/12/n...ons-to-hhs-mandate-based-on-religious-rights/