Biden won debate but Palin exceeded expectations

[rayboyusmc]

From some of all the soures she reads:

Time
[QUOTEIndeed, Sarah Palin's high-energy performance in the vice-presidential debate was the most glaring demonstration—since George W. Bush's performances in 2000—of how little you can get away with knowing and still survive one of these things, especially if the rules limit the cross-examination as severely as they did in this debate. Her relentless opacity was impressive. She refused to answer the questions where she hadn't been prepped with answers and when Biden pointed out that an early question had been on deregulation not taxes, she flashed: "I may not answer the questions the way you and the moderator want to hear, but I'm gonna talk straight to the American people."

Talk straight she didn't, with only a few exceptions. She talked talking points. And when the talking points concerned areas where she didn't know diddly, she didn't talk them very convincingly. Indeed, there were times I got the distinct impression that she didn't understand the points she was talking about (on the vice president's constitutional powers, for example).

Joe Biden, by contrast, demonstrated a real knowledge of the issues in question. He made several verbal fumbles—it was Syria, not Hizballah, that left Lebanon—and at times he lapsed into legi-speak, even using plague words like "amendments" and "Liheap" (the winter heating oil assistance program for poor people). But his was a solid, informed and restrained performance—although his best moments came near the end of the debate (when much of America had turned to the baseball playoffs or reruns of their favorite sitcoms on cable). He was genuinely moving when he talked about being a single parent after the death of his wife (he almost began to weep, but held it together); in fact, that moment was more real than anything Palin said all night. He also closed with a devastating point: McCain was, sure enough, a maverick on some things, but not on any of the issues that really mattered in this election—and he listed those issues, and where McCain stood on them, to great effect.
][/QUOTE]

Klein: Palin Was Fine, But This Debate Was No Contest - TIME

Newsweek

But Palin also sidestepped certain questions, pivoting at times to talking points and generalities.

Asked by moderator Gwen Ifill if she would support legislation allowing debt-strapped mortgage holders to file for bankruptcy to get out from under that debt, Palin said yes but avoided details, quickly steering the focus back to a more general discussion of the "toxic mess" in the financial industry.

And asked how she as vice president would help reduce partisanship in Washington, she said, "Let's commit ourselves just every day American people, Joe Six Pack, hockey moms across the nation, I think we need to band together and say never again."

Biden, for his part, largely avoided direct challenges to Palin and instead worked to undermine McCain, who has sought throughout the campaign to distance himself from the unpopular Bush.

The Delaware senator repeatedly noted that McCain had sided with Bush on crucial issues, from launching the war in Iraq to tax policies that widened the income disparity between rich and poor.

Candidates spar on energy, taxes, war | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com

Us News & World

Less than a half hour into last night's vice presidential debate, moderator Gwen Ifill asked Republican Sarah Palin and Democrat Joe Biden how, if elected, they'd scale back campaign promises given the country's economic turmoil.


Sen. Joe Biden and Gov. Sarah Palin greet each other at the start of the vice presidential debate.
(Don Emmert/Pool/Getty Images)

The vice presidential debate at Washington University's Athletic Complex in St. Louis, Missouri.
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Palin, 44, a smile spreading across her face, tipped her head and responded: "How long have I been at this? Like five weeks?"

Yes, like five weeks. Not enough time to make promises, she seemed to suggest. But long enough for the Republican governor of Alaska to have gone from a mystery woman with the Fargo-like accent to ascendant conservative star to a punch line for comics and potential drain on John McCain's campaign.

Last night, the most crucial of her political career, Palin managed to come out of a rocky couple of weeks—marked by stumbling interviews with CBS's Katie Couric—with a credible, confident, aphorism-peppered debate performance that harkened back to her bravura acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention.

But it was Palin's misfortune that the often too-garrulous Biden was at his best. He stayed focused on bonding McCain to the Bush administration, contrasting the policies of his running mate Barack Obama with those of McCain—particularly on Iraq and healthcare, and successfully avoiding the minefield of cross talk with Palin by answering questions to Ifill directly. In one of his strongest moments of the night, he made the case that Palin, the mother of five and, as she reminded again last night, a "hockey mom," doesn't have a monopoly on family values.

"I understand what it's like to be a single parent," Biden said, visibly choking up as he referred obliquely to the great tragedy of his life: the death of his wife and young daughter, in a car accident, just before he was to be sworn in for his first Senate term at age 30. "I understand," he said. "I understand."

Last night, Palin, who filibustered through some answers and maneuvered even a direct question about bankruptcy law back to her favorite issue of energy, still gave comics some fodder. No one expects Tina Fey to hang up her Saturday Night Live Palin parody just yet.

Sarah Palin Delivers Gaffe-Free Debate Performance Against Joe Biden - US News and World Report

 

[WillowTree]

Biden did not deny saying that. He said it was taken out of context. And if you listen to what he is saying and consider the context and environment when he said it, it's obvious that what he was saying is we're not only supporting clean coal. He goes on to mention the dirty coal in china which makes since if you are trying to get the idea across that you support alternative energy, but you cannot eliminate coal use- even if you could in the U.S., China would still be polluting the environment. So, along with cleaner alternative energy, you have to be able to use clean coal technology to help out as well. That's a complicated point to make in rope line where you can barely hear. Taking stuff like this is ridiculous. Anyone who uses this as an attack on Biden should not defend Palin blatantly violating McCain's rule on talking about Pakistan plans out loud at the Cheese-steak place. If you do, then you're being inconsistent and intellectually dishonest.

No coal burning in America sounded pretty final to me. let china do it and we'll try to get them to clean theirs up..

 

[N4mddissent]

Good summary of the debate IMO. Thanks for the link Jsanders.

 

[N4mddissent]

No coal burning in America sounded pretty final to me. let china do it and we'll try to get them to clean theirs up..

And this is contrary to what I said how? Clean coal technology supported because if coal is going to burned it should be clean?

 

[N4mddissent]

From some of all the soures she reads

That's just liberal media bias...

(Trying a little preemption here)

 

[WillowTree]

And this is contrary to what I said how? Clean coal technology supported because if coal is going to burned it should be clean?

you denied he said it, and he said it.

 

[Silence]

my favorite Biden response was about how no one could say that he didn't know what it was like to be a single parent.

of course, no one had said that or anything remotely like it, but he had to work it into the debate somehow.

Kind of the way McCain works being a POW into every conversation

I think his point was that she didn't have the exclusive handle on the struggles of raising children under difficult circumstances.

I think it's kind of sad that Palin had set the bar so low for herself that anything above being a jibbering idiot would've been seen as a win for the Republicans.

I think she performed far better than her prior interviews would have indicated possible. Perhaps that was by design.

 

[N4mddissent]

Following the October 2 vice presidential debate, several media outlets have falsely claimed that Sen. Joe Biden was wrong when he said during the debate that Sen. John McCain "voted against funding the troops" in a 2007 appropriations bill. Biden said: "John McCain voted against funding the troops because an amendment he voted for -- voted against had a timeline in it to drawdown American troops. And John said, 'I'm not going to fund the troops if in fact there is a timeline.' " In an October 2 article, CBSNews.com wrote of Biden's comments: "This is wrong. The 2007 troop appropriation amendment first had a withdrawal timetable. McCain urged the President to veto that amendment -- and Bush did, and most Republicans voted against the amendment -- but McCain missed the actual vote." Similarly, in an October 2 post on MSNBC.com's First Read, NBC News' Carrie Dann and Mark Murray reported: "McCain OPPOSED -- but did not vote on -- a Senate measure with troop funding because it contained a timetable for withdrawal. Biden said McCain 'voted' against it" [emphasis in original]. And in an October 3 article, FactCheck.org also claimed: "Biden is simply wrong to say that McCain voted against that bill; he was absent and didn't vote at all. McCain did oppose the bill, and he urged President Bush to veto it." In fact, Biden's statement was correct: While McCain did not vote on a later version of the appropriations bill, he voted against the measure on March 29, 2007, and said at the time that he was opposing it, in part, because it "would establish a timeline" for U.S. withdrawal from Iraq.

Link

 

[Chris]

Palin is a former sportscaster, so in the debate she could just read talking points.

In an interview format she has to answer specific questions, so she is in trouble.

Like Miss Teen South Carolina....

 

[N4mddissent]

you denied he said it, and he said it.

you asked if we saw that asshole deny saying this (link to the youtube video on coal)

From the Debate transcript:

Ifil: On clean coal.

BIDEN: Oh, on clean coal. My record, just take a look at the record. My record for 25 years has supported clean coal technology. A comment made in a rope line was taken out of context. I was talking about exporting that technology to China so when they burn their dirty coal, it won't be as dirty, it will be clean.

So no, I didn't see him deny saying that.

 

[WillowTree]

you asked if we saw that asshole deny saying this (link to the youtube video on coal)

From the Debate transcript:

Ifil: On clean coal.

BIDEN: Oh, on clean coal. My record, just take a look at the record. My record for 25 years has supported clean coal technology. A comment made in a rope line was taken out of context. I was talking about exporting that technology to China so when they burn their dirty coal, it won't be as dirty, it will be clean.

So no, I didn't see him deny saying that.

Nope! good try Joe but you clearly said no coal burning in America.

 

[Silence]

Well if the dems are lucky, maybe ACORN will finally pull off their voter fraud this time.If not, the dems are going to be in shock screaming, " BUT THE POLLS SAID, BUT THE POLLS SAID, BUT THE POLLS SAID". I think it happens every four years or so.

It's cute how a Con would already be talking about a stolen election... considering Bush stole one for sure and possibly another if the evidence is to be believed about Ohio.

It's always good to get your excuses ready ahead of time I guess Otter.

 

[del]

Palin is a former sportscaster, so in the debate she could just read talking points.

In an interview format she has to answer specific questions, so she is in trouble.

Like Miss Teen South Carolina....

do you spend a lot of time ogling teenage girls?
sad. not surprising, but sad.

 

[N4mddissent]

Willowtree, you're just not making sense. Your post asked if we saw him deny what he said in the youtube video, which is "we're not supporting clean coal technology." Just like factcheck said. He did say the line he was accused of saying. He said it was taken out of context. And I agree, it was.

Now if you want me to respond, please make yourself clear. Tell me what you are saying he denied, and provide the quote where he denied it.

 

[N4mddissent]

I think I have figured out what you are saying. In the rope line he was talking about exporting clean coal technology to China, which at a minimum would be reason to support the technology- whether you support its use in America or not. And that is what he was saying in the rope line. But as he said, just look at his record, and according to Factcheck, his record does show consistent support for clean coal technology. You are trying to take his argument for supporting clean coal technology regardless of whether it is used in America or not, and claim it implies he is absolutely opposed to its use in America when his record clearly indicates the opposite. Take in the entire conversation and situation, not just cherry pick lines here and there and bend them to fit an argument you already wanted to make.

 

[del]

, not just cherry pick lines here and there and bend them to fit an argument you already wanted to make.

who would do such a thing?

 

[WillowTree]

I think I have figured out what you are saying. In the rope line he was talking about exporting clean coal technology to China, which at a minimum would be reason to support the technology- whether you support its use in America or not. And that is what he was saying in the rope line. But as he said, just look at his record, and according to Factcheck, his record does show consistent support for clean coal technology. You are trying to take his argument for supporting clean coal technology regardless of whether it is used in America or not, and claim it implies he is absolutely opposed to its use in America when his record clearly indicates the opposite. Take in the entire conversation and situation, not just cherry pick lines here and there and bend them to fit an argument you already wanted to make.

what did he mean when he said "No coal plants in America"?

 

[Chris]

what did he mean when he said "No coal plants in America"?

Coal don't grow on trees.....

 

[WillowTree]

Coal don't grow on trees.....

why didn't he just say "coal don't grow on trees"?

 

[DiamondDave]

and as the factcheck link shows, palin made up facts as well. but it doesnt matter that she did that, right? only that biden was wrong

If you actually read my earlier posts... you'll see I thought both made minor mistakes....and I am not going to bash for that... mispronunciations, number mistakes, etc.... no biggie

Although it was Biden who came out with flat out lies